54 replies to this topic

[Meathook]

legatoblues, on 12 March 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

SMH at Polar Highlands being labelled as "Terrible" and "Unplayable".....

I still can't contain my laughter everytime he posts this list, it's legendary.

[MrMadguy]

Damia Savon, on 12 March 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Funny how the supposed "list of maps" (must have missed the voting) has the ones best suited for high alpha, laser vomit, skirmish fiends at the top and the ones least suited at the bottom. I'm sure there is no bias going on at all.

Any Meta is bad. I played diverse builds and tried to avoid Meta. But at least mixed build brawler can deal with Meta brawlers on balanced maps - any brawler is useless against snipers on Snipe Meta map.

Edited by MrMadguy, 13 March 2016 - 04:00 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Aresye, on 12 March 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Welcome to the nature of RNG. Sometimes you go an entire night without seeing one of the maps. Other times it's there for every selection.

Actually its not solely RNG, maps that get picked more get weighted more and show up less.



Its a great system if you are trying to turn people away from your game. I play less now then i ever did soley because im tired of only seeing 3 maps that are middle of the road maps because the good ones never show up for me. Same issue we had BEFORE map voting was even a thing... People will always play the best maps you give them and all PGI did with this system was effectively cut out half the maps and give me a pool of maps to play half the size.

Bravo.

After the 3rd time on Bog for the night in 5 matches i just log off and go find a more DIVERSE game to play for a while.

ExplicitContent, on 12 March 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

So I logged every Map selection screen for 25 matches and also logged the map selected. The following are the results.


Map % its an option % chosen when an option %overall of times played
Canyon 28% 42.9% 12%
Caustic 64% 18.8% 12%
Tourmaline 12% 66.7% 8%
River 48% 8.3% 4%
Alpine 16% 25% 4%
Therma 36% 11.1% 4%
Polar 72% 11.1% 8%
Frozen 16% 50% 8%
Forrest 36% 22.2% 8%
Viridian 36% 33.3% 12%
HPG 12% 66.7% 8%
Mining 16% 25% 4%
Crimson 8% 100% 8%


Despite the small sample size, I am dumbfounded at the frequency of Polar and Caustic showing up on the vote screen. I can only guess that this is perhaps part of an attempt for the game to balance the map selection? The end results of what was played is actually quite evenly distributed.

Small sample, but the trend you have is the same one i get, I play Caustic, Viridian and Polar twice as often as most of the other maps and i find it LAME.

Meathook, on 13 March 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

I still can't contain my laughter everytime he posts this list, it's legendary.

Almost as legendary as how terribad he is....

Edited by Revis Volek, 13 March 2016 - 07:00 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Vote screen should only have three maps, tops. Right now it presents too many options, making it too easy for players to avoid unpopular maps.

Personally, I enjoy Terra Therma and Caustic Valley. The player base has succeeded in making me loathe Frozen City, if only because they vote for it so damn often.

[Krivvan]

MrMadguy, on 13 March 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Any Meta is bad. I played diverse builds and tried to avoid Meta. But at least mixed build brawler can deal with Meta brawlers on balanced maps - any brawler is useless against snipers on Snipe Meta map.

There is always a meta, no matter what. If the game were built differently then your mixed build brawler could be meta.

"Meta" is just making a smart and optimal build. And it's perfectly fine to not bring an optimal build if you want to run weird stuff for the hell of it, but a statement like "Meta is bad" is ridiculous.

[MrMadguy]

Krivvan, on 14 March 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

There is always a meta, no matter what. If the game were built differently then your mixed build brawler could be meta.

"Meta" is just making a smart and optimal build. And it's perfectly fine to not bring an optimal build if you want to run weird stuff for the hell of it, but a statement like "Meta is bad" is ridiculous.

Difference between "tolerable" and "bad" - is in % of performance, you lose. Just a few % loss is tolerable - only elitists can claim opposite. But loss of 99.99% of performance - can't be tolerable even for most casual players in this game, sorry. Mixed build brawler is still viable against laser vomit Meta brawler - you still may use your skill, tactics, luck. At least, who cares about performance, if you're getting fun? Any brawler is inviable against any sniper Meta 'Mech - there is no way to come closer to a 'Mech, that can drill you from 1k meters, if map completely lacks cover.

It's one-sided game, sorry. This biases balance in this game towards long range 'Meta - everybody and their grannies equip Gausses, ER-LLs, LRMs (ER-MDL in case of Clans). And I have my own brain - I don't want to be one of that gray Meta crowd. And trenches or hills - aren't viable cover, if enemies have LRMs and spotters. Remove LRMs from the game and then we'll treat anything, that is lower, than 1.5x 'Mech's height, as any sort of viable cover.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 March 2016 - 03:08 AM.

[Krivvan]

MrMadguy, on 14 March 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

It's one-sided game, sorry. This biases balance in this game towards long range 'Meta - everybody and their grannies equip Gausses, ER-LLs, LRMs (ER-MDL in case of Clans). And I have my own brain - I don't want to be one of that gray Meta crowd.

SRM brawlers are meta too right now. LRMs are considered worthless by tryhards.

[MrMadguy]

Krivvan, on 14 March 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

SRM brawlers are meta too right now. LRMs are considered worthless by tryhards.

BS. SRMs are as terrible, as they always were - same crap as LBX. Tried SRM brawler - completely inviable. Had to turn my EBJ-C SRM boat back to LRM boat to be able to level it - only 1 match of 100 was good enough. I don't even know, where this myth comes from. May be so called tryhards still haven't adopted to the fact, that LRMs were unnerfed recently and now viable again? Yeah, there was a moment, when LRMs were nerfed to a point, where they were completely useless, so everybody started to use SRMs instead, including me. But it haven't made SRMs any better. Same dmg spread and crappy hitreg. And LRMs... They kill you in a matter of few seconds, if you're caught out of cover. Best anit-brawler weapon - no way to get closer without 100% cover along whole path.

[Krivvan]

MrMadguy, on 14 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

BS. SRMs are as terrible, as they always were - same crap as LBX. Tried SRM brawler - completely inviable. Had to turn my EBJ-C SRM boat back to LRM boat to be able to level it - only 1 match of 100 was good enough. I don't even know, where this myth comes from. May be so called tryhards still haven't adopted to the fact, that LRMs were unnerfed recently and now viable again?

We ran a bunch of LRM vs no-LRM games actually:

And we do try them out now and then. They're still awful against actually good players for the same reasons they were awful before. You say "if you're caught out of cover," but you don't get caught out of cover players when they're actually good, unless it's a full team brawl push, in which case there is no distance anywhere in the game that actually saves you.

Teams playing in tournaments are currently using ranged laser builds and SRM brawlers in relatively equal amounts. LRMs have still had no success.

LRMs are still strong in low tier games, but useless in competitive games.

And before you say "oh it's just because you use ERLL" then take a look at this game: https://youtu.be/v70cZgwia2A?t=4724

We actually take a ranged ERLL team and get hard countered by positioning and a brawl push team.

Edited by Krivvan, 14 March 2016 - 05:38 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

MrMadguy, on 13 March 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Any Meta is bad. I played diverse builds and tried to avoid Meta. But at least mixed build brawler can deal with Meta brawlers on balanced maps - any brawler is useless against snipers on Snipe Meta map.

Do you understand what you just said?

The 'meta' is what the top players graviate to after working out what is most effective.. so you are literally saying that using effective builds is bad, due to some self imposed rules as to what is and isnt allowed.

http://www.sirlin.ne...ducingthe-scrub

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 March 2016 - 05:38 AM.

[cazidin]

MrMadguy, on 12 March 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

Some players say, that there is a system, that increases chance of appearance in voting for those maps, that aren't being chosen. Via doing so PGI tries to force you to play terrible maps. And as nobody picks them anyway, then map rotations slowly coming to complete mess. Enjoy your Therma/Alpine/Polar-fest. This aren't cherry picked screenshots - it's real map rotation:






Least popular maps appear most often, as you can see. "Democracy" and "freedom of choice" in action!

Am I the only one to notice that his vote multiplier never goes up or down and that some of the percentages are odd?

[MrMadguy]

cazidin, on 14 March 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Am I the only one to notice that his vote multiplier never goes up or down and that some of the percentages are odd?

That's because I haven't voted. Patch is tomorrow and now I can reveal scary truth - I used simple trick to manipulate voting without even wasting my multiplier. It's not my invention - some other player suggested it long time ago. All you need - is to stack enough multiplier and then always immediately vote for map, you don't want to play, but remove your vote at last second. It psychological trick - you mess up %, so players, who hate map, you voted for, start to vote against it, instead of trying to stack multiplier, and vote trolls do the opposite - they try to stack multiplier, instead of voting for this map. What you actually do - is "simulate" blind voting. Works in 90% cases.

I guess, % looks odd, just because they're rounded down, so their summ =/= 100%.

Widowmaker1981, on 14 March 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

Do you understand what you just said?

The 'meta' is what the top players graviate to after working out what is most effective.. so you are literally saying that using effective builds is bad, due to some self imposed rules as to what is and isnt allowed.

http://www.sirlin.ne...ducingthe-scrub

There is big difference between "smart use of game mechanics" and "exploiting". There is nothing bad in "working out what is most effective", howewer, exploiting imbalance - is really bad thing. I've given Paladins in Wow example many times already. It's not players to blame for playing OP class - they've just made most effective choice. It's developers, who should be blamed for creating this OP class. Same here. Snipe Meta itself isn't bad. It's bad, that Snipe Meta > Brawl Meta in this game and players exploit this imbalance. I just don't want to have unfair advantage. It's like playing with cheats - uninteresting.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 March 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[Krivvan]

MrMadguy, on 14 March 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

I just don't want to have unfair advantage. It's like playing with cheats - uninteresting.

You don't have an unfair advantage when everyone else has access to it. Cheats are not cheating if everyone openly has access to it within the game's rules.

[MrMadguy]

Krivvan, on 14 March 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

You don't have an unfair advantage when everyone else has access to it. Cheats are not cheating if everyone openly has access to it within the game's rules.

But cheats dumb the game down, so you lose interest and desire to play this game. After using cheats it won't be interesting for you to play the game, as it's intended to be played - without cheats. That's why cheats are bad in any shape or form. That's why using them - is bad. "Everybody jumps into the well" isn't valid excuse for doing it too. Appeal to Common Practice Fallacy

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 March 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[cazidin]

MrMadguy, on 14 March 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

That's because I haven't voted. Patch is tomorrow and now I can reveal scary truth - I used simple trick to manipulate voting without even wasting my multiplier. It's not my invention - some other player suggested it long time ago. All you need - is to stack enough multiplier and then always immediately vote for map, you don't want to play, but remove your vote at last second. It psychological trick - you mess up %, so players, who hate map, you voted for, start to vote against it, instead of trying to stack multiplier, and vote trolls do the opposite - they try to stack multiplier, instead of voting for this map. What you actually do - is "simulate" blind voting. Works in 90% cases.

I guess, % looks odd, just because they're rounded down, so their summ =/= 100%.


There is big difference between "smart use of game mechanics" and "exploiting". There is nothing bad in "working out what is most effective", howewer, exploiting imbalance - is really bad thing. I've given Paladins in Wow example many times already. It's not players to blame for playing OP class - they've just made most effective choice. It's developers, who should be blamed for creating this OP class. Same here. Snipe Meta itself isn't bad. It's bad, that Snipe Meta > Brawl Meta in this game and players exploit this imbalance. I just don't want to have unfair advantage. It's like playing with cheats - uninteresting.

On one hand, you just admitted to playing with the Voting Meta Game or VMG, as I like to call it. On the other hand, you're playing the people who're just trying to boost their multiplier and don't care about the other players... I think I'm going to award you this one. Well played, MrMadguy. Well played.

Edited by cazidin, 14 March 2016 - 07:03 AM.