71 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Reboot back to PGI's original plan: 3015 amidst the 3rd Succession War. Even the original TT designers admitted the Clans were a stupid idea and they never should have been in the game.

[NextGame]

SkaerKrow, on 14 March 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Reboots are often sickly, anemic pastiches of the original story. Battletech has a brilliant, lush setting with hundreds of characters and a wealth of interconnecting plotlines. You don't just throw all of that away. I mean, you can, but then you would be a complete fool.

It hasn't aged well. Needs a quality fantasy/sci-fi storyteller who is in it for the long haul and wont cut corners by condensing and streamlining too much into earlier reboot content entries, then subsequently winding it off into oblivion by stretching entries to cover less content because they don't know where they are going with it. There are only a handful of those at the moment.

Aetes Nakatomi, on 14 March 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

BT would be perfect if it had a little GRR Martin/Joe Abercrombie style GrimDark story telling.

I think there are bits and pieces from different authors that would need to be considered to get a reboot right.

I think GRRM's era is rapidly passing, he set a new mainstream tone for writing Fantasy, but there are some other writers that have managed to write beyond his inclination in recent years. Maybe Abercrombie if he didn't get bored later on and start injecting tropes, memes and unnecessary levels of comedy into it.

If keeping down a space opera route, someone like Peter F Hamilton has a writing style that could be drawn from as an inspiration as to the level of depth that needs to be kept.

The works of Brandon Sanderson are probably what should be looked at to understand how to pace something like the battletech universe properly.

Edited by NextGame, 15 March 2016 - 12:54 AM.

[xengk]

Rework Clan Tech.
Since Clanner favour dueling, have them abandon ER weaponry altogether and focus on improving pulse laser and SRMs.
IS can have the ER tech recovered from Helm core.

IS will end up with slower mechs armed with better ranged weapon, while Clan have fast mech with superior brawling and XL survivability.

[Johnny Z]

NextGame, on 15 March 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

It hasn't aged well. Needs a quality fantasy/sci-fi storyteller who is in it for the long haul and wont cut corners by condensing and streamlining too much into earlier reboot content entries, then subsequently winding it off into oblivion by stretching entries to cover less content because they don't know where they are going with it. There are only a handful of those at the moment.



I think there are bits and pieces from different authors that would need to be considered to get a reboot right.

I think GRRM's era is rapidly passing, he set a new mainstream tone for writing Fantasy, but there are some other writers that have managed to write beyond his inclination in recent years. Maybe Abercrombie if he didn't get bored later on and start injecting tropes, memes and unnecessary levels of comedy into it.

If keeping down a space opera route, someone like Peter F Hamilton has a writing style that could be drawn from as an inspiration as to the level of depth that needs to be kept.

The works of Brandon Sanderson are probably what should be looked at to understand how to pace something like the battletech universe properly.

Yep. Sort of thinking its the kind of work only a pro could do possibly. The original creator being a pro would be my first bet. With help of course. Or how ever it works out best.

The point I was sort of trying to make in a round about way on the last page is that no one will be able to see this fiction in the light the original author seen it. If for no other reason that as the times change so does the light in which people see things, or the sound as in Ludwig's case.

Then after watching the Cyberpunk 2077 video and the guy mentioning how they were making a more mature fiction it was clear that these two fictions at least have some things in common.

[iLLcapitan]

The storyline is fine till Victor becomes the uberPrince and all the Jihad/Dark Age trash kicks in.

Xavori, on 14 March 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

If there was a reboot, the first thing that would have to go is 30+meter tall stompy robots because that's a freakin' stupid weapons platform.

I mean, an M1A2 Abrahms would put a shiny silver bullet right through the eye of any stupid Atlas that dared cross its path, and odds are, the Atlas would never even know the tank was there.

Next up would be the targeting. Going back to the M1A2, the computer in that tank could not only hold the left eye perfectly, it could automatically adjust for range, temperature, wind speed, barometric pressure, the speed and direction of the tank, and rough terrain. Hell, even lesser computers like in the ol' hummvee mounted avenger system could lock on to a human heat signature (I know this because once upon a time I did it to my squad leader while he was wandering around out in a field while we were sitting in the cab giggling at what we wished we could load into the rocket launchers to splatter him with...cow pies were a big favorite)

Third, elementals wouldn't be a late addition, but would likely be fully developed even before the rest of the story gets started. Heck, the battlearmor part might be done in our lifetime, and the genetics part won't be far behind.

Finally, at no point does anyone even remotely, even think, not even for a single split nanosecond, about adding in a technological superior outside invader that completely breaks the already clunk balance in the game.

Amazing to see how on every second threat some gunnut creeps out to praise the M1A2 /AH64 and point out how they are superior to purely fictional (but enyoable) stompy robotz. Guess those people get half-hard typing this irrelevant BS.

Edited by iLLcapitan, 15 March 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[2fast2stompy]

iLLcapitan, on 15 March 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

Amazing to see how on every second threat some gunnut creeps out to praise the M1A2 /AH64 and point out how they are superior to purely fictional (but enoyable) stompy robotz. Guess those people get half-hard typing this irrelevant BS.

I really think you need to read that post again, because it went right over your head.

[Koshirou]

Appogee, on 14 March 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

The Clans, and their invasion of the IS, are the single most imaginative RPG story arc I've encountered in 30+ years of gaming.

I am very, very sorry for you.

[HerrRed]

iLLcapitan, on 15 March 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

Amazing to see how on every second threat some gunnut creeps out to praise the M1A2 /AH64 and point out how they are superior to purely fictional (but enoyable) stompy robotz. Guess those people get half-hard typing this irrelevant BS.

What you say is true, but he does have a point. I think any major reboot should change the exhisting tech completely to something that sounds more like science fiction. I would also love to see massive space battles and mech assaults covering entire Solar systems. With proper combined arms tactics. Also, while I don't oppose the clans' exhistance, some of their ludicrous rules like reducing their force before an attack should be removed.

Mechs should have full glas cockpits and mimetic steel cockpit windows so there are no weakpoints. Armour should use graphene composites so that a few mm of thickness can be equivalent of several meters of rha.

Battlefield ranges and e-warfare should be extended and ballistics completely reworked.

Basically mechs should work as part of a battlefield integrated system.

[Koshirou]

iLLcapitan, on 15 March 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

The storyline is fine till Victor becomes the uberPrince and all the Jihad/Dark Age trash kicks in.

Disagreed. In retrospective, everything they did since they started moving the timeline forward was terrible. 4th SW and Clan Invasion storylines were asinine, offensive drivel. Plots only worked because major characters were consistenly being completely and implausible idiotic.

Reboot: Start pre-3025. Dial back some of the stupid in the backstory and the tech (e.g. ridiculous population/army size mismatches, insta-invasions, styrofoam spaceships, laughable weapon ranges), noting that I said "dial back" not "transform into some idealized version of 'hard SF'". In developing the storyline: More nuance in everything. Reduce the casual racism and sexism (especially in the early storyline) as far as possible while maintaining the identity of the setting. Write conflicts in such a way that it might actually appear as if there was any doubt as to their outcomes (in contrast to the 4th SW and Clan Invasion as written.) Don't rely on idiot plots. Don't rush everything along at an implausibly fast pace. Don't abolish the elements of your setting that actually made it unique (fallen empire aspect, dropship/jumpship setup, Mechwarrior feudalism.)

Clans: I don't know. I'd be happy with never arriving in 3050 at all. But if you have to have the Clans: Do them differently. Actual Star League derived society rather than football team mascot collection. Cliched and one-note societies work, but not to this degree. If eugenic angle is to be incorporated: More alien, less teenage armchair warmonger w*nking material. Also: Genetic engineering rather than eugenics (Clan eugenics make no sense whatsoever as written.) Actual war with the IS rather than Clans slapping their enemies around with 1.5 hands behind their backs until ComGuard deus ex machina shows up. Other possibility: If you developed IS in a more nuanced fashion until that point, Clans can make good stereotyped villains that all factions can unite against. (Problem in game, however: Do people want to play pure villains?)

Edited by Koshirou, 15 March 2016 - 04:17 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

The more I think about it, I am not sure a reboot is necessary. Sure, we could use some retooling and some course corrections, but we've got 1000+ years of human history but only the last 200(ish) years are told.

The Clans, while not THE most fascinating thing I have ever heard, are still pretty important to the franchise. Hell, I even enjoyed the Dark Age story arc though it could use some work.

I think if each era was better defined, the power creep reigned in, and a better way to do tech resets found, it could work. I mean, the Succession Wars is a great example while the Jihad (NUKE EVERYTHING) and the Republic (TAKE ALL YOUR GUNS AWAY) are pretty poor examples.

[Appogee]

Koshirou, on 15 March 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

I am very, very sorry for you.

Feel welcome to cite alternative - and in your view superior - RPG storylines, if you'd like to come off as something other than an asinine as$hat.

Edited by Appogee, 15 March 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[Koshirou]

Feel free to apologize for and/or edit out the personal insults with which you apparently thought you had to spice up your posting, and I will.

[Xavori]

iLLcapitan, on 15 March 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

The storyline is fine till Victor becomes the uberPrince and all the Jihad/Dark Age trash kicks in.

Amazing to see how on every second threat some gunnut creeps out to praise the M1A2 /AH64 and point out how they are superior to purely fictional (but enyoable) stompy robotz. Guess those people get half-hard typing this irrelevant BS.

First, there is an amazing your mom joke there. But I'm going to rise above the temptation, no matter how hard it gets, and not just thrust into it like I normally would.

Second, I'm often, in fact nearly always, being silly and/or trollish.

Also, I have driven and fired the M1A1 (alas not an Apache), and I can assure you it's easier to drive and fire that thing than anything in MWO.

[Davers]

BT is an old game, and sometimes it does feel like it. The expanded rules that support hex-less play help though.

I don't think the vocal playerbase would sit well with any changes though- look how upset people got when PGI changed the faction symbols.

[Metus regem]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

First, there is an amazing your mom joke there. But I'm going to rise above the temptation, no matter how hard it gets, and not just thrust into it like I normally would.

Second, I'm often, in fact nearly always, being silly and/or trollish.

Also, I have driven and fired the M1A1 (alas not an Apache), and I can assure you it's easier to drive and fire that thing than anything in MWO.

I cannot comment on the ease of driving or gunnery in the M1A1, but I can comment on the AH-64D, having been the P.I.C. (Pilot In Command), for several years, flown them in combat, and had to take over for my gunner when he was killed right in front of me.... That being said, Battle Tech is a product of the 80's, and it shows, it was a time when getting the information to make it more inline with what it could be/should be, was not easy or cheap to come by. I cut it some slack, but there are things that could be redone.

[CDLord HHGD]

Metus regem, on 15 March 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

I cannot comment on the ease of driving or gunnery in the M1A1, but I can comment on the AH-64D, having been the P.I.C. (Pilot In Command), for several years, flown them in combat, and had to take over for my gunner when he was killed right in front of me.... That being said, Battle Tech is a product of the 80's, and it shows, it was a time when getting the information to make it more inline with what it could be/should be, was not easy or cheap to come by. I cut it some slack, but there are things that could be redone.

No disrespect to anyone in uniform in any war. Battletech/MWO needs that Vietnam to 80's feel though. It's what makes it unique. There's a reason why Viridian Bog is my favorite map and I call it Vietbog. I don't want some anime-hyped dystopia more in line with Gundam and Final Fantasy. Battletech is the dirty, gritty, brutal world of (sci-fi) war that isn't shiny and pleasant. Even modern tech (iPhones et al) is too advanced for the genre.

[Metus regem]

cdlord, on 15 March 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

No disrespect to anyone in uniform in any war. Battletech/MWO needs that Vietnam to 80's feel though. It's what makes it unique. There's a reason why Viridian Bog is my favorite map and I call it Vietbog. I don't want some anime-hyped dystopia more in line with Gundam and Final Fantasy. Battletech is the dirty, gritty, brutal world of (sci-fi) war that isn't shiny and pleasant. Even modern tech (iPhones et al) is too advanced for the genre.

None taken, I would like to see things like a computer controlled stability system rather than a gyro, every Mech should have a fire control system...

The main thing I would like to see,and my guys have been testing it, we upped engine hits to kill to 4, it really closed the gap between the ISXL and Clan XL. Yes it makes all engines tougher, but the ISXL gets the biggest buff.

[Johnny Z]

cdlord, on 15 March 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

No disrespect to anyone in uniform in any war. Battletech/MWO needs that Vietnam to 80's feel though. It's what makes it unique. There's a reason why Viridian Bog is my favorite map and I call it Vietbog. I don't want some anime-hyped dystopia more in line with Gundam and Final Fantasy. Battletech is the dirty, gritty, brutal world of (sci-fi) war that isn't shiny and pleasant. Even modern tech (iPhones et al) is too advanced for the genre.

I couldn't disagree more.

To artificially hamstring the title is just not cool.

I am not trying to advertise Cyberpunk 2077 although I think its going to be great. But from what they are showing, they are doing it the right way in every way so far.

There is no reason at all that MechWarrior doesn't aim to do their best as well.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 March 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Johnny Z, on 15 March 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

I couldn't disagree more.

To artificially hamstring the title is just not cool.

Care to expunge on that? I mean, sure you disagree with something I said, but no idea what, it not all, and why and what you'd prefer? We can agree to disagree, but I'd like your take on it.

Post 3050 the genre edges closer to the anime feel which is part of the reason it lost popularity (that and power creep and lame story arcs).

Edited by cdlord, 15 March 2016 - 07:26 AM.

[Archangel.84]

Gyrok, on 14 March 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

But the voice acting, and the characterization of Optimus Prime is spot on.

This would be the same Optimus that mercilessly executed Sentinel Prime and then expressed no remorse?

Frosty Brand, on 14 March 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

2) wobbies and jihad. This one is a little more complex but the simple is: Start the group's existence in the 2800s. All those warships they suddenly had?
Wobbie: "We're taking derilicts and moving them out of system for the houses' safety, as per comstar regs"
Comstar: good job, keep up the good work.
Wob: of course, all in the name of Blake... (hehehe)
Cs: what was that?
Wob: err, well Blake did put down regs to save tech after all...
Cs: good point, keep it up.

Basically have them doing their thing but start it waaaaaaaaaaay earlier, right under com stars nose without them realizing the(later) betrayal and multi system bombing (and other madness) of the jihad.

Schism wobbie as normal, now they have 200 years of recovery to use as their fleet

It's been pointed out already, but WoB was ComStar, or at least a significant portion of it before the secularization. Everything the Blakists did was just an extreme version of what pre-schism ComStar had going on.