220 replies to this topic

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Light Fusion Engine

http://www.sarna.net..._Engine_-_Light

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 March 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

That is kind of missing the point though since the Clan XL puts any Clan omni stuck with a STD in a rough position. I'd say this should only be part of a balancing act. Change the iXL to survive as well as the cXL, but give STDs a serious buff (LFEs would get half of said buff), because they've been needing it for a while now.

Also, WTB agility being detached from engine rating, PLOX.

sorry, but no. You do that, and you also leave things open to "why are omnis so gimped in construction rules if their XLs aren't any better, etc".

It's a can of worms that I don't think shoudl be touched when it doesn't need to be.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 14 March 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Really?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fd99256b68ff707

Seems like that one would be just fine...likely even better off with a STD, especially since you retain 60% of your firepower in your CT and head...

wow, way to use an extreme exception (and a mediocre build) to try to disprove something. Because of course, having a clan XL, allowing you to survive losing an ST, bring FASTER and freeing up 8 tons for DHS or bigger clan lasers of course would not make it better......

I know, I know, Gyrok, clan XLs don'¡t give ANY advantage, you've been beating that drum for 2 years now...

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

wow, way to use an extreme exception (and a mediocre build) to try to disprove something. Because of course, having a clan XL, allowing you to survive losing an ST, bring FASTER and freeing up 8 tons for DHS or bigger clan lasers of course would not make it better......

I know, I know, Gyrok, clan XLs don'¡t give ANY advantage, you've been beating that drum for 2 years now...

Actually, I severely dislike people who make blanket statements that are obviously not completely true.

Valid blanket statement: All water is wet.

Invalid blanket statement: All water is salty.

See the difference?

[Pjwned]

It's fine the way it is now.

If you want a 10-slot XL engine in IS mechs then you can have a light fusion engine.

[Revis Volek]

Gyrok, on 14 March 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Actually, I severely dislike people who make blanket statements that are obviously not completely true.

Valid blanket statement: All water is wet.

Invalid blanket statement: All water is salty.

See the difference?

All water is not wet....Ice is pretty dry.


Damn those blanket statements!

[Mcgral18]

Yeah, I'd like de-quirking, XL normalizing, STD buffing

Balance from a tech point of view, then quirk the Trash Tier...instead of quirking everything.
Not likely to happen.

[TexAce]

Mcgral18, on 14 March 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

Yeah, I'd like de-quirking, XL normalizing, STD buffing

Balance from a tech point of view, then quirk the Trash Tier...instead of quirking everything.
Not likely to happen.

I'd start with giving STD engines a huge structure buff. Then see from there. Not touch XLs at all (and especially not make them equal to Clan XLs.)

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 14 March 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Actually, I severely dislike people who make blanket statements that are obviously not completely true.

Valid blanket statement: All water is wet.

Invalid blanket statement: All water is salty.

See the difference?

Yes, Gyrok is salty clans not OP enough.

But that's a conversation for a different thread.

And your build still is in no way better for having an STD than it would be for having a clan 325XL and 8 more free tons to play with. Since yes, you do go slower and run hotter if you lose a side.... after already running faster, cooler and packing more punch before losing said side.

Front loaded damage is a match matters a heck of a lot more than your fixation with "Zombie" builds.... which is why you see essentially ZERO Origin IICs running around with STDs, not even the HBK-IIC-A Laservomit.

[Metus regem]

Lordred, on 14 March 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

LFE would need a several year jump in the timeline for us to have. Would result in lots of new tech, I would be down for that, but lets be realistic, I doubt they will do a time line jump.

Or we could say forget the time line, and inject the LFE.

Light Fusion Engine was in prodcution in 3053, sort of.

While introduced by the Lyran Alliance in 3062, the technology actually stems from the Wolf's Dragoons and Blackwell Corporation. With dwindling supplies of Clan-Tech XL Engines, after the initial Clan Invasion the Dragoons charged Blackwell with developing a new form of lighter than standard engine yet with the same bulk as the Clan extralight.
Using the Lostech protective energy damping grid of the Steiner Stadium on Solaris VII as a base, Blackwell engineers were able to reduce the level of physical shielding with the energy field assisting in keeping the engine's fusion reaction in check. As rumors of this technology began to leak out in 3053, Archon-Prince Victor Steiner-Davion of the Federated Commonwealth entered into protracted and ultimately fruitless negotiations with Blackwell, becoming apparent either the rumors were false or Blackwell would not sell the technology to anybody outside of the Dragoons.
In 3058, after the formation of the Lyran Alliance, the Lyran Intelligence Corps discovered that while a long way from full mass-production, Blackwell had succeeded in developing a prototype. Recognizing the awesome potential of the technology and viewing the possibly alienation of the Dragoons as worth the cost to secure it for the Alliance, Archon Katherine Steiner-Davion authorized Loki to steal the prototype. It took Defiance Industries four years and unlimited funding and resources, but the Lyran Alliance Armed Forces were duly impressed with the resulting light fusion engine. ^[1]
The Dragoons however were not, filing charges against the Alliance in the Star League Court and in a slap to the face of the Archon, sold the light fusion technology via Blackwell to the Lyrans' age-old enemies, the Free Worlds League and Draconis Combine.^[2] The technology spread yet further when the Word of Blake's ROM used the distraction of the approaching FedCom Civil War to secure it for themselves. ^[3]

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

"why are omnis so gimped in construction rules if their XLs aren't any better, etc".

Except that is no longer a balancing mechanism since the day they opened the door for Battlemechs. All it takes is for us to get battlemechs that don't have a combination of crappy hitboxes and solid hardpoints for everyone's tune to change. Like say if we were to get the Black Python which can do build that several wanted to run on the Night Gyr, while also pulling off most Timby builds.

That can of worms opened a long time ago when they announced the IICs. No one can use the excuse that the Clan XL needs to be better to offset the Omnis construction limitations, because Clans aren't limited to omnis anymore.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 March 2016 - 01:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 March 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Except that is no longer a balancing mechanism since the day they opened the door for Battlemechs. All it takes is for us to get battlemechs that don't have a combination of crappy hitboxes and solid hardpoints for everyone's tune to change. Like say if we were to get the Black Python which can do build that several wanted to run on the Night Gyr, while also pulling off most Timby builds.

That can of worms opened a long time ago when they announced the IICs.

except battlemechs don't get to swap omni pods, and are generally quirkless to compensate.

Not an apples to apples conversation, my friend.

[Pjwned]

Gyrok, on 14 March 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Really?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fd99256b68ff707

Seems like that one would be just fine...likely even better off with a STD, especially since you retain 60% of your firepower in your CT and head...

That is a decent (although rather extreme) example, but unless you really wanted that zombie capability then I'd rather run it like this if it could mount a clan XL engine.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pjwned, on 14 March 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

That is a decent (although rather extreme) example, but unless you really wanted that zombie capability then I'd rather run it like this if it could mount a clan XL engine.

and be better in essentially every way. Actually, I currently run my CRB in that build with an IS XL because I can usually use the LPL to gimp the MPL only versions before they ever get in range.

[Pjwned]

Lordred, on 14 March 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

LFE would need a several year jump in the timeline for us to have. Would result in lots of new tech, I would be down for that, but lets be realistic, I doubt they will do a time line jump.

It's what should happen to make the game less boring and to also have more solid options available for various mechs that really need it.

Quote

Or we could say forget the time line, and inject the LFE.

I would be fine with that too, not like the timeline matters very much when we still have a number of weapons missing from the current timeline.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

and be better in essentially every way. Actually, I currently run my CRB in that build with an IS XL because I can usually use the LPL to gimp the MPL only versions before they ever get in range.

True, I was actually thinking that's not a bad build in the first place, but it would be even better with a clan XL like you said.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 March 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

The only thing about engines that I think aren't working is that there should be a critical hit system rather than instant death. Something like...

Engine (hit makes it go slower)
Gyro (makes it wobble like it's drunk)
Sensors (watch your minimap and targeting recital go away)

Etc.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

except battlemechs don't get to swap omni pods, and are generally quirkless to compensate.

Not an apples to apples conversation, my friend.

How useful is that though? Better yet, what is done most often with those pods? To maximize hardpoints to certain build, but what if with hardpoint inflation the Battlemech could match whatever build an Omni could do? Does it really matter at that point then that the Omnimech can swap pods?

Omnipods could be unique but more often than not there exists an optimized Mr. Potato head, even with quirks most run with a specific set of pods with the best mechs typically being the most flexible (and quirkless) to begin with. The main difference between a well designed Battlemech, and a well designed Omnimech, is that the Omni can run the same thing across all variants with maybe minor trade-offs (TBR ERPPC/Gauss all in the torsos with high mounts, or torso and arms for example), while the Battlemech can be optimized through engines and other equipment while still maintaining good hardpoints allowing for more build flexibility.

The saving grace for Omnis is quirks that Battlemechs are exempt from, despite the need of them for mechs that don't really get to take advantage of the strengths of Clan tech like the Lowlander IIC and to a degree the Orion IIC, but isn't the point to remove the need of quirks?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 March 2016 - 01:28 PM.

[Pjwned]

Dawnstealer, on 14 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

The only thing about engines that I think aren't working is that there should be a critical hit system rather than instant death. Something like...

Engine (hit makes it go slower)
Gyro (makes it wobble like it's drunk)
Sensors (watch your minimap and targeting recital go away)

Etc.

That would only make mechs die faster than they do currently, unless you also allow IS XL mechs to survive a side torso loss (which shouldn't happen).

When the torso component is lost, do you expect the parts of the engine inside it to still be intact? Of course not.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dawnstealer, on 14 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

The only thing about engines that I think aren't working is that there should be a critical hit system rather than instant death. Something like...

Engine (hit makes it go slower)
Gyro (makes it wobble like it's drunk)
Sensors (watch your minimap and targeting recital go away)

Etc.

Ah the qq that would arise. Since that just means getting crippled before insta death.... Would actually makes ISXLs even more fragile.

[Khobai]

CXL and ISXL definitely should be the same for the game to ever have a chance of being balanced. Or at least IS should have an somewhat option on par with CXL like LFE.

Quote

It's what should happen to make the game less boring and to also have more solid options available for various mechs that really need it.

LFE is another option however ISXL and STD would need significant buffs to remain viable vs LFE.

Edited by Khobai, 14 March 2016 - 01:55 PM.