31 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

GXP will generally take care of itself - just remember not to use it for anything but buying modules at first. It helps to run Premium Time - this gives you no in-game advantage (or a lot of us wouldn't be here,) but the added c-bill and experience is great. Particularly if you're just starting out and want to make a lumbering, 100-ton death machine a bit more agile. Eventually, via events like the one starting tomorrow, you'll have MC for GXP conversion without spending a dime. Do this, if you have enough 'mech bays (and you should by then - CW will give them to you rather easily, if nothing else,) but wait for a double conversion weekend before you do. =)

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Is it a good idea to get some pilot skill and weapon module for about 5k + 0.5k instead? AFAIK I'm limited to one each until completing the basic+elite+master skill level.

NO. Like I said, GXP will take care of itself just from playing and enjoying the game, especially if you help yourself out with some Premium Time (think of it as buying entertainment; how many hours of fun could you get for the price of some snacks, or a movie ticket?)

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

I have read that is it best to use LRMs below 800m range if the target is likely to move out of range (no damage then). I have little idea how the locking mechanisms works though.

I have a feeling I did something very wrong
When I get a lock, I shoot, often with the center crosshair going red briefly, after some time (it means I did some damage?).
Do you mean I need to have the lock during the entire time LRMs are flying to the target? What happens otherwise then, the LRMs just do spread damage in the area OR ...?
Do I need to point all the time inside the lock-confirmed target selection box or just never allow it to disappear?
Is that even possible on non-exposed targets? I hear there are some devices to help with locks (NARC?), but haven't noticed them being used in quick-play.

Theoretically, the optimal engagement range for LRMs is 300-400m. This allows the LRMs to converge, gives the enemy no time to react, and is too far away for them to seek cover. However, a more in-depth explanation of LRM mechanics is in order:

As you are realizing, LRMs are not fire-and-forget weapons. You must hold your lock on the target at all times from fwoosh to boom. Once the enemy breaks your line of sight, your target lock will be broken after a short time, by default. Your teammates, however, can still target the enemy for you, allowing you to potentially lock, fire, and hit a target you have never personally seen. An LRM volley leaves your tubes and travels in an arc toward your target; as the target moves (or doesn't) the volley will alter course to follow it - the rate of these turns is called tracking strength. If lock is lost at any time, the LRMs will simply continue on the last trajectory - if lock is re-acquired, they will home in on the enemy once again. Finally, you can "dumb-fire" LRMs without bothering with a lock; they will simply flie toward wherever your arm reticule was pointing when you pulled the trigger - whether a piece of terrain, a point in space occupied by a Battlemech at the time, or the wild blue yonder. Such "dumb-fired" LRMs can never achieve a lock after they are fired. Those are the basics, and additionally there's a system of counters and targeting aids in place:

• Enemy ECM will break your target lock; if an ECM-carrier on the enemy team comes within 90m of your target, your lock will die.
  
• ECM, however, can be countered by a number of means, notably NARC beacons and TAG. NARC will counter the ECM of any carrier it hits, and will burn through ECM coverage to allow the target to be locked regardless. TAG will burn through ECM if held on the target, allowing that 'mech to be locked. Both NARC and TAG also affect tracking strength.
  
• Target lock decay is affected by two modules: Advanced Target Decay, and Radar Deprivation. Target Decay extends the decay time (by 1.5 seconds, but I could be wrong,) while Radar Deprivation eliminates the base decay time altogether - however, the added time from Target Decay still remains.
  
• AMS systems will automatically engage LRMs (and Streaks) that enter their range, prioritizing missiles that are homing in on the equipping 'mech. These systems chew through missiles at a modest rate, individually, but are very powerful when the paltry 1.5 tons to field the system is paid by an entire team. While some builds are legitimately too strapped for ammo, heat dissipation, or space to field them, generally you should. Vaccinate your dang 'mechs.
  
• Finally, a friendly UAV consumable (also a powerful experience-farming tool if deployed correctly) will both allow you to target unprotected (by ECM) 'mechs within its area of effect and burn through enemy ECM systems after a short delay.

LRMs are a powerful tool early on, particularly since a novice who takes the time to learn how they work can rack up impressive damage scores - and correspondingly high experience. As you move up through the tiers and more of your enemies and teammates learn how to counter LRMs, their use becomes more challenging, but it can still be done. LRMs are viable at all levels of play, but at top level it is generally accepted that direct-fire options are superior overall. Simply be aware of this difficulty curve, and don't let anyone tell you LRMs don't take skill - the skills required are positioning and tactical awareness rather than marksmanship, but the requirement is still there.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 March 2016 - 08:53 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

good information Void Angel but I have a few additions

Void Angel, on 16 March 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

An LRM volley leaves your tubes and travels in an arc toward your target; as the target moves (or doesn't) the volley will alter course to follow it - the rate of these turns is called tracking strength. If lock is lost at any time, the LRMs will simply continue on the last trajectory - if lock is re-acquired, they will home in on the enemy once again.

if you fire LRMs at 200m they fly in a fairly flat arc, the further away you are when you fire the higher the arc is.

if the target is being TAGed or if you have Artemus and line of sight, your tracking strength is increased, Artemus and TAG stack, that is they both work together to give tighter grouping and allow the missiles to make more course corrections.

Void Angel, on 16 March 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

Enemy ECM will break your target lock; if an ECM-carrier on the enemy team comes within 90m of your target, your lock will die.

ECM, however, can be countered by a number of means, notably NARC beacons and TAG. NARC will counter the ECM of any carrier it hits, and will burn through ECM coverage to allow the target to be locked regardless. TAG will burn through ECM if held on the target, allowing that 'mech to be locked. Both NARC and TAG also affect tracking strength.

you forgot Active Probe, that also counters ECM if any of the Mechs on your team with BAP or Clan AP is within 240m of an enemy ECM, and an ECM set to counter also counters ECM but only within 90m

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Lasers: hard to keep on the enemy at times, dealing less damage and generating more heat.

Lower your ingame sensitivity (to between .1 and .3)!!! Laser right now are the top end weapons when used en masse. And they are the easiest weapons to use (especially pulse lasers)! Just lower your sensitivity, and practice for a day or two, and you will notice how easy it is to vanquish your foes!

On a side note, I run my king crab with 2x uac 5, and 2x large pulse lasers so i am not completelly ammo dependant and a biger engine so i can move "faster".

Edit : added link:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...92c8beb24f9ba4c

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 17 March 2016 - 01:34 AM.

[Void Angel]

Rogue Jedi, on 17 March 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

good information Void Angel but I have a few additions

if you fire LRMs at 200m they fly in a fairly flat arc, the further away you are when you fire the higher the arc is.

if the target is being TAGed or if you have Artemus and line of sight, your tracking strength is increased, Artemus and TAG stack, that is they both work together to give tighter grouping and allow the missiles to make more course corrections.



you forgot Active Probe, that also counters ECM if any of the Mechs on your team with BAP or Clan AP is within 240m of an enemy ECM, and an ECM set to counter also counters ECM but only within 90m

I didn't forget, I just didn't want to swamp him with data by trying to be exhaustive. The Beagle active probe is paradoxically of little use to an LRM platform, except to allow it to overcome ECM harassment by enemy lights. He's just trying to learn how to hit the target at this point, so I pared down things like PPC disruption, BAP, etc. I figure I gave him maybe more than enough to chew on already.

[SnagaDance]

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'm only sitting at 5.5k GXP (most from achievements), getting to 15k seems impossible. I'm quite sure I won't play that much to reach that point. I'm also not very eager to spend money on MC conversion from XP yet.

Is it a good idea to get some pilot skill and weapon module for about 5k + 0.5k instead? AFAIK I'm limited to one each until completing the basic+elite+master skill level.

Btw. 100 GXP (x2 if 1st this day) is a exceedingly good result for me, which happens for me 1 in 10+ matches, the other ones granting something like 12 GXP.

While I personally find Radar Deprivation overrated, and inferior to learning good movement path skills and always taking cover into consideration, it can really help a player, especially a starting one.

Take a look at the Achievements tab, are there any more easily obtainable ones for you that grant GXP? You could even use trials if needed.

In addition, an event has just started and one of the (rather common) prizes that can be had is GXP, often in the hundreds (from previous goody bag events I believe the max. GXP reward from a single gift is 500). Jump in and rake in those goodies!!

[Tigven]

Thanks all for your advice!

I'm not sure anyone cares, but I have 3x king crabs now (1 master, 2 elite).
(1/3) The quad UAC5 is still my favorite, even more fun once I fully realised what the double tap thing is.
(2/3) Second is dual shotgun version with some LR Lasers, but it is slightly underwhelming compared to (1/3).
(3/3) Final one has plenty of LRM (with Artemis and TAG). Thanks to your advice I'm doing quite OK on it.



The event granted me some free premium and had me showered in GXP and MC, as you predicted.
I find it extremely amusing that what I assumed to be impossible (earning 15k GXP) is not only already achieved, but in fact achieved almost twice over (I have bought radar deprivation and 2 ranks of target decay). Suddenly, GXP is a non-issue, and C-Bills are a big issue (need 2x6M for 2 more radar deprivation modules, unless I want to swap them all the time).

About the MC, maybe I'll use them to buy mech bays when there is a sale, the remainder will probably be spent on GXP when there is a double conversion weekend.

I do not have any more questions at the moment besides maybe those two:
a. What second module would you recommend for a mostly close-range mech (1/3 and 2/3)? Seismic sensor seems to be best?
b. Is radar deprivation + target decay a good choice for a LRM mech?

Edited by Tigven, 25 March 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Tigven, on 25 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

a. What second module would you recommend for a mostly close-range mech (1/3 and 2/3)? Seismic sensor seems to be best?
b. Is radar deprivation + target decay a good choice for a LRM mech?

Yes and yes.
Glad it is all coming together for you

[Void Angel]

Glad it's all starting to make sense! Remember that you can also get 'mech bays through CW. Once you start buying weapon modules to flesh out your builds, that GXP will go fast - I'd recommend doing Faction Warfare for a few spare 'mech bays. Eventually, bays will become the non-issue, while your store of GXP will be insufficient to buy all the modules you wish you had. =)

Seismic sensor is - along with Radar Deprivation - one of the most useful modules in the game, despite its limited range, and of course Target Decay is a necessity for LRM platforms, particularly with the availability and prevalence of Radar Deprivation (you should be sensing a theme here.)

Now, as for your KCrabs, I'd recommend the following for close-range:

First, I presume you're still using your "B" (000B) for long range - this is sub-optimal, unless you're intending to make use of the "Triple" variant's AC/20 quirks to make a BoomCrab. Otherwise the ballistic quirks for the Triple are superior, and the Dakkacrab does more damage overall; simillarly, if you're using any variant but the Quaddo (0000) for LRMs, you're wrong - I'll assume you've not been making that particular error and concentrate on the other variants.

Given my results, I use the Triple for the linked Dakkacrab - if you want to make a Boomcrab out of it, I'd recommend building it Thusly. As an alternative, you could also Invest in SRMs for a slightly hotter (and shorter-ranged) build. In either case, the key to success is learning when you should and should not eat the Heat Scale Penalty for using both of the AC/20s at once. Regardless of which build you choose for which variant, the builds are very similar - though the B can pack in a better Strictly Close-Range punch. While I've used two LB-10Xs on the King Crab, the widely-spaced arms and spread mechanic make the build just sub-par; the Best You Can Do is to use the B's close range guns and try to make the best of it. You can Go XL if you're feeling suicidal, but the build's not that effective, and the huge XL is expensive as sin.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 March 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

However it's a very common belief that light mechs aren't worth anything and I wanted to make sure that anyone reading the thread wouldn't get that impression. Back in beta, there was a point in which players would kill their own teammates for using a light mech. Then there was bullying in terms of friendlies 'bulldozing' through teammates and knocking them all over because they brought a 'worthless metal baby'. While most people are pretty decent, there's always potential for budding apples to sour.

Yeah, there was a pretty decent stigma on light piloting up until about the 3/3/3/3 implementation. Less now, though you still see people complain for bringing min tonnage for a category sometimes.

Two important things about lights to remember:
1. These are specialists' weapons. They carry about half to a third the firepower of an assault generally, less than a quarter the hitpoints even post-quirk, and go two to four times as fast. Positioning is everything in a light, and it takes a bit of practice to do well.
2. No matter how good you are, the system by which score is counted is against you. You cannot out-dps heavier 'Mechs, and the score system is heavily slanted to reward damage dealt more than any other form of contribution. At least the same is not as true of the rewards system anymore.

One other funny thing: the removal of collisions make it possible for light 'Mechs to bully people now by standing behind them, since they cannot be knocked over. Good for use on enemies when you run out of ammo/weapons, since everyone and their dog likes to run backwards in this game.

Edited by Tim East, 27 March 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Lights are the hardest class to play effectively.
Being a light sniper is probably the easiest way to play the class.

But if you want to play the cqb ankle chomper then it takes a lot of practice and skill. My god is it a lot of fun once you get it down.

Personally nothing is more terrifying that a light mech in the hands of a good pilot.

All the meta and quirks in the world do not mean anything against a target you simply cannot hit.

[Koniving]

Tim East, on 27 March 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

Yeah, there was a pretty decent stigma on light piloting up until about the 3/3/3/3 implementation. Less now, though you still see people complain for bringing min tonnage for a category sometimes.

Two important things about lights to remember:
1. These are specialists' weapons. They carry about half to a third the firepower of an assault generally, less than a quarter the hitpoints even post-quirk, and go two to four times as fast. Positioning is everything in a light, and it takes a bit of practice to do well.
2. No matter how good you are, the system by which score is counted is against you. You cannot out-dps heavier 'Mechs, and the score system is heavily slanted to reward damage dealt more than any other form of contribution. At least the same is not as true of the rewards system anymore.

One other funny thing: the removal of collisions make it possible for light 'Mechs to bully people now by standing behind them, since they cannot be knocked over. Good for use on enemies when you run out of ammo/weapons, since everyone and their dog likes to run backwards in this game.

Saw a Locust turn a fight that was being lost 8 to 3 turn it around, and so when it was down to 6 to 2 and soon 4 to 1, the Locust still had no damage. By the time it was 0 to 1, the Locust was only in yellow armor with 80+% health remaining and 5th highest damage of BOTH teams (so that's out of 24 players).

Pretty damn awesome for a Locust sporting 3 small lasers and an ER Large Laser on Polar Highlands.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 28 March 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

Saw a Locust turn a fight that was being lost 8 to 3 turn it around, and so when it was down to 6 to 2 and soon 4 to 1, the Locust still had no damage. By the time it was 0 to 1, the Locust was only in yellow armor with 80+% health remaining and 5th highest damage of BOTH teams (so that's out of 24 players).

Pretty damn awesome for a Locust sporting 3 small lasers and an ER Large Laser on Polar Highlands.

Oh yeah, if you're a good pilot, Lights are among the best 'Mechs, defensively speaking. I've had matches where I did top damage out of both teams in Locusts, though those are less common since the clans came out with their crazy damage-spreading weapons. I'm just saying that sustained DPS isn't as good on them as it is on heavier platforms, which in turn means that it is more difficult to generate higher match score with them.

In your example, the Locust pilot really should have died to a team that worked even halfway together. Hitscan weapons doing minor damage should have gradually stripped him to nothing, especially since he was using the same. That he didn't is really more of a testament to how bad they were than how good he is. Or else his team just set them up for the one-touch kills, in which case kudos to the guy for having decent gunnery skill and following up on their hard work.

Too often I see people just spamming weapons at ranges they don't inflict damage at when they're the last guy. I've seen it lose a gimme match probably thrice in the last month. Silly people shooting PPCs under 90 and LRMs under 180. If they'd just listen to their entire team telling them that minimum range is a thing and stick to their backup weapons they wouldn't overheat and die.