56 replies to this topic

[Ulris Ventis]

Mr Mugatu, on 16 March 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

I feel like conquest mode should be done away with all together. At least for quick play. I can see it being useful in CW because of the respawn element.

I actually support this. I don't see how this mode fits in BT or MW universe at all and the logic behind it. Any kind of CTF mode with whatever item must be captured and retrieved would make more sense in terms of universe. Capturing a bunch of points in a middle of nowhere for no reason doesn't do justice. They could end up with a usual domination (Unreal style) mode with 3 points to capture where it will be lance vs lance battles to achieve control. And it would make more sense in terms of mechanics, rather than spreading teams in 4 to 5 groups.

[Luscious Dan]

The CW phase 3 game modes seem to have the more lore-based cap points. Like download a file from a beacon, and await dropship extraction.

I like the idea of forcing people to win by scenario, but the flipside is definitely a lot of waiting around. With some of the massive maps, it's pretty pointless and dull. Like you guys say, it should end when one team is wiped out and the point of no return has passed.

There are 12-0 matches with a team wiped out in 3-4 minutes, and waiting for the survivors to run around a big map to cap all the points is not a fun user experience for anyone. If all they need to do was flip 3/5 objectives to essentially guarantee victory and end it immediately, that's pretty painless. Having an "assured victory" condition and not requiring that the number actually ticks over to 750 would be an improvement.

I've seen some other good suggestions out there -- I like the simplicity of the suggestion where killing mechs should could for some cap points, say 25 per mech for a total of 300 points per team available via kills. So by the time the killing is over, it's usually closer to ending on points.

I personally like the idea where time required to capture is affected by how many mechs are alive on your team. If you've got 12 mechs alive, it makes sense you need multiple to get the cap flipping quickly. But when it's 1 lance remaining or less, maybe it can go faster. Especially when there's no enemies remaining...

I also like the idea of having capture points "run out" or stop producing after X number of resource points are taken from them. To me it seems more dynamic. Say the capture point expires when 100 points are extracted. Then a new capture point drops into a new location (have a pool of potential capture points, maybe more on the bigger maps?).

Having secondary benefits from capturing resources might also be nice. Say your team gets a small bonus triggered (a radar quick scan of the whole map or a strafing run by a drop ship/aerospace fighter, similar to those CW phase 3 bonuses for winning the smaller game modes on a planet) when you reach 250 and 500.

*shrug* I don't know what the future holds but I think Conquest could become one of the most fun game modes, and at least they recognize that the old system was flawed. That's the first step.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 16 March 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The point OP is trying to make went over many people's heads it seems.....

Tarogato, on 15 March 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

I.e, all enemies are dead, they own no caps
Or... all enemies are dead, and your team will reach 750 before the enemy according to remaining time on the clock.

This is the correct way, it shouldn't just be a win if all enemies are dead and all caps are yours, it should be more inclusive to eliminate as much wasted time as possible, like say if your team kills all the enemies and had a three cap from the beginning, you shouldn't have to wait at all, the game should just end since there would be no way the enemy would win that.

Though there should probably be a special rule just for the 1% chance it ever happens, if all points are uncapped and both teams die, they shouldn't have to wait the full time, it should end in a draw.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 March 2016 - 07:58 AM.

[Strelok7]

Yep
Enemy is gone - game over
The more points you have taken by that time, the more mc you get.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 March 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Though there should probably be a special rule just for the 1% chance it ever happens, if all points are uncapped and both teams die, they shouldn't have to wait the full time, it should end in a draw.

For that particular instance, highest score (from capping) wins (or tie if the score is the same). Mutual annihilation while having nothing capped is the fault of both teams.

Match should immediately end of course.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 March 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 16 March 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

Match should immediately end of course.

Which could be a problem since I doubt it does.

[The King Of Zimbabwe]

The problem with the round not ending when all of the other team is dead is that it wastes peoples most valuable commodity.....time. Most people have limited time to play and sitting around for 4 or 5 mins waiting for the round to end is simply a waste of their time. Having 24 people per round multiplied by however many matches are running adds up to a lot of folks sat around bored

[Kusunoki Masashige]

conquest should end if the other team is wiped, kinda a lame move PGI to waste our time.....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Here is some python/pseudo-code to figure out the win conditions to prevent the unnecessary wait.

def on_tick():
 
team_one_all_dead = team_one_alive_count <= 0
team_two_all_dead = team_two_alive_count <= 0
 
no_cap_time_to_win = 999999999.0
 
team_one_time_to_win = no_cap_time_to_win if team_one_cap_count <= 0 else ((750.0 - team_one_resources) / team_one_cap_count)
 
team_two_time_to_win = no_cap_time_to_win if team_two_cap_count <= 0 else ((750.0 - team_two_resources) / team_two_cap_count)
 
if team_one_all_dead and team_two_all_dead:
  if team_one_time_to_win < team_two_time_to_win:
   return team_one_wins
  elif team_one_time_to_win > team_two_time_to_win:
   return team_two_wins
  else:
   return tie
elif team_one_all_dead and team_one_time_to_win > team_two_time_to_win:
  return team_two_wins
elif team_two_all_dead and team_two_time_to_win > team_one_time_to_win:
  return team_one_wins

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 March 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Both Domination and Conquest end with waiting time which is boring time...

[Madrummer]

It would be incredibly easy to implement a formula which checks (on full team wipe) if the scale of points will leave the wiped team with no chance of victory. It was an oversight that it wasn't coded in, and hopefully it's soon included in a hotfix patch.

[Dodgy Moustache]

The match should end once all enemies are destroyed, regardless of cap status. This new mode of allowing a completely destroyed team to "win" by continuing to accumulate resource points is absolute crap. Whomever came up with that grand idea should be fired. Whomever approved it should be horse-whipped, forced to play that stupid game mode for a solid week in an assault ''mech, and then fired.

[bar10jim]

Troutmonkey, on 15 March 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

If the enemy is dead and has no caps, the game should end as there is literally no way for the enemy to win

The enemy can still win if the game times-out and the opforce has more resource points. Now, as soon as the friendly force collects more resource points than the opforce (prior to time-out) with all opforce mechs destroyed, THEN there is no way for the opforce to win.

[bar10jim]

Better suggestion - give us back the ability to unselect 1 or 2 game modes. People who don't like Conquest won't play Conquest.

[Troutmonkey]

happy mech, on 16 March 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

should be easy to code

There are lots of things that are easy to code and should be in the game already. A decent UI is one of them. Too bad PGI and coding go together like Trump and Bernie supporters.

bar10jim, on 16 March 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

The enemy can still win if the game times-out and the opforce has more resource points. Now, as soon as the friendly force collects more resource points than the opforce (prior to time-out) with all opforce mechs destroyed, THEN there is no way for the opforce to win.

I'm willing to bet that happens less than 0.01% of the time as it's almost impossible for a game to hit 15 minutes while someone is still scoring points. Making games longer 99.99% of the time is bad for everyone and not fun at all.

[Krivvan]

Having to wait 5+ minutes after the end of Conquest private lobby matches just to get your mechs back is pretty god damn infuriating.

[Krivvan]

3 minutes into the game and the match should already be over:



4 minutes later...I feel so objective-focused right now...



It's private lobbies, both sides all disconnected just so they wouldn't have to wait through it.

Edited by Krivvan, 16 March 2016 - 06:07 PM.

[Krivvan]

To clarify, I don't hate the caps going on after all mechs dying all that much (it doesn't actually change Conquest much, but it does put a bit more depth on near end of engagement decisions), but it's extremely annoying when there's literally no way for an enemy team to win? Having 5 caps leading to an instant win after all mechs are dead is the easiest fix if there can't be any extra calculation done.

[kka]

Dear PGI,

Tetris was very successful game in its time. Why? Because as soon as the GAME WAS OVER, you could INSTANTLY START AGAIN. The programmer Aleksei Pazitnov understood this in 1984.

For every rare (10 %) case where the new conquest mode makes situation interesting after the death of the other team, the majority of the cases (90 %) FORCES AT LEAST 12 PLAYERS TO BE LOCKED FOR 1 - 5 MINUTES.

Please learn from Tetris.

Edited by kka, 16 March 2016 - 08:53 PM.

[SeaLabCaptn]

I like the idea, but what is dead? The teammate who is DC at the beginning of the round and marked "dead" in lance list? Correct me if I'm wrong, but rejoin is still possible, no?

I'm trying to point out that coding this may not be so easy if "dead" mechs are able to rejoin.

I still say fix Conquest by making kills worth bupkis and each cap tick a fortune.