40 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

When I was dropping with MS I was getting about 3 drops an hour. If they had been focused just on the win, kill a wave and dunk, 4 an hour would be easily doable.

20 drops in an 8 hour stretch is easily doable. Get on faction TS, build a group and start pounding.

[Cy Mitchell]

p4r4g0n, on 16 March 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

No disrespect but I think you're missing the point that Rampage and I are trying to get across.



I cannot speak for Rampage but I play CW when I want a change of pace. If I can find a group of people I can drop with, which on Oceanic is pretty hit or miss, I drop with them. Otherwise I just click on the Faction Play button once in a while to see if there is a queue with 1 slot open and drop there.



If neither of those conditions exist, I just go back to Quick Play.



We just have no vested interest in CW or the state of the Inner Sphere map. There is zero reason to queue up on a planet waiting for others to turn up, which may or may not happen.



is it actually possible to get 20 CW drops in one attack phase?



Just FYI but I only managed to get 1 Faction Play game done for Pot of Gold throughout the entire period. Not because I was not looking but waiting in queue to get one Faction Play match when I could just do a couple of Quick Play matches seemed counter-productive event wise.

^^^ That is a lot of what I meant by "hassle". There are other things with CW that I consider a hassle also. However, proper rewards for doing CW would overcome my objections. I have been a member of large "clans" or units in other games and that can be a mixed blessing. If I am going to do that in MWO to compete successfully in CW then there needs to be more reason to do it. Something in line with why a faction would bother with conquering a world in the first place. They do it because there is some benefit to them. Those could be resources, strategic location, psychological effect on the enemy, etc. In this game it pretty much has to come down to resources. That is c-bills, xp, gxp or cost breaks at the store. Maybe even badges, titles or free Mechs for long term successful defense of a world or conquest of worlds?

If I am going to play as a lone wolf in CW then I need some win or lose benefit to entice me to invest the time. Otherwise, when you factor in waiting time for matches, match length and lack of pay-out for a loss then I am better off in QP.

Edited by Rampage, 16 March 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[NextGame]

Zolaz, on 16 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

PGI put out that only 10% of the player base play FW. When PGI puts out things like that it normally means they are going to cut back on production. FW requires more mechs, bonuses from mechs and items are less than in quick play and you have increased wait time to find a match. All of these things means that quick queue requires less investment for more c-bills. Then PGI wonders why no one is playing the game mode.

Increase earnings and people will play the game mode.

The earnings are in the same ballpark, unless you play CW like a muppet and have to sit "dead" for ages until your mechs are freed up again.

I fail to see the problem.

That said, I believe they should provide incentive for playing CW when phase 3 comes out.

[sycocys]

Rampage, on 16 March 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

^^^ That is a lot of what I meant by "hassle". There are other things with CW that I consider a hassle also. However, proper rewards for doing CW would overcome my objections. I have been a member of large "clans" or units in other games and that can be a mixed blessing. If I am going to do that in MWO to compete successfully in CW then there needs to be more reason to do it. Something in line with why a faction would bother with conquering a world in the first place. They do it because there is some benefit to them. Those could be resources, strategic location, psychological effect on the enemy, etc. In this game it pretty much has to come down to resources. That is c-bills, xp, gxp or cost breaks at the store. Maybe even badges, titles or free Mechs for long term successful defense of a world or conquest of worlds?

If I am going to play as a lone wolf in CW then I need some win or lose benefit to entice me to invest the time. Otherwise, when you factor in waiting time for matches, match length and lack of pay-out for a loss then I am better off in QP.

Why you do CW/FW -
1. better c-bill earnings (if you don't run with scared pugs that is)
2. far, far, far better challenge - chances are far more likely you aren't going to drop against t5 players

I don't even care about number one anymore, if I'm going to bother logging on to play I don't want to play against noobs. I want to gather up a team and drop against other teams of players that are actually going to fight.

[Willard Phule]

Sounds like a great idea.

Since CW is obviously geared toward new players (why else would "beginning equipment" be allowed into "end game content?"), they should reward everyone equally for participation.

Match the bonus for winning and give it to the losers. Everyone gets a trophy. Sounds like a plan.

sycocys, on 17 March 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

Why you do CW/FW -
1. better c-bill earnings (if you don't run with scared pugs that is)
2. far, far, far better challenge - chances are far more likely you aren't going to drop against t5 players

I don't even care about number one anymore, if I'm going to bother logging on to play I don't want to play against noobs. I want to gather up a team and drop against other teams of players that are actually going to fight.

Not sure where you get that T5 thing. There's NOTHING preventing you from ending up on a team with 10 T5 players in CW. In the Solo Queue, we have a matchmaker that tries to keep us separated. CW...not so much.

[Zolaz]

NextGame, on 17 March 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

The earnings are in the same ballpark, unless you play CW like a muppet and have to sit "dead" for ages until your mechs are freed up again.

I fail to see the problem.

That said, I believe they should provide incentive for playing CW when phase 3 comes out.

I can farm faster and better in quick queue and I run with a dedicated 8 to 12 man group for FW. In quick queue I can run Premium Time and a Hero mech. In Faction Warfare to get the same bonus you need 4 Heroes. In FW I'll normally pull over 1k damage depending on how bad the opposing team is or if there is a ghost drop. Sometimes you just wipe em in the first wave and take out Omega.

Newer players face much larger obstacles. Long wait times, soul crushing defeats to the whatever boogey man they feel is out there and not having a stable of meta mechs are just a few. The people we are talking about are probably not even involved in this discussion. They played FW once or twice, got stomped and then returned to quick queue. For those guys they dont see any incentive to playing FW.

[sycocys]

Willard Phule, on 17 March 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

Not sure where you get that T5 thing. There's NOTHING preventing you from ending up on a team with 10 T5 players in CW. In the Solo Queue, we have a matchmaker that tries to keep us separated. CW...not so much.

Being smart enough to not solo drop into CW prevents that 100% of the time.

[Divine Retribution]

sycocys, on 17 March 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

Being smart enough to not solo drop into CW prevents that 100% of the time.

60% of the time it works every time. 40% of the time I drop solo in CW.

[Triordinant]

Zolaz, on 16 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Increase earnings and people will play the game mode.

[Noesis]

I agree with the sentiments that CW needs more realism to it than as per the existing MWO mechanics. This then as the need for intention on making a recognisable difference to the CW map and how it effects the players moreso than just the accumulation of personal rewards.

It has been stated a long time ago when CW was first sold to the playerbase that reduction in costs for Mechs and potentially armory could arise from the capture of specific targets or perhaps the accumulation of a number of key strategical planets that then could confer a bonus to those players/units recognised as being a member of a capturing unit or loyalist to those faction concerns.

At the same time however I also believe there needs to be a limiting effect to the idea of captuing territory with the need for the impact of warfare and the logistical impact of warfare also needing to be managed by unit/player resources and that effective management of these mechanics will help the progression of any military campaign.

The combination of the two above give more involvement with the affairs of the Community Warfare and the IS map. This in itself provding more gameplay, more strategical levels and more controls to ensure players having to manage the process to progress.

This as a result then removing the current simple exchange of planet where the big fish simply wins. As with the cumulation of resources I would hope to see a sliding scale of reducing progression due to the need to manage all the resources associated with the faction. If it was simply a linear accumulation then the most progressive units would simply dominate the map as per the current model, which in principal simply skews the victory elements to them. This I see as a fundamental flaw not generated by the players but simply poor design or limitations placed on designers with MWO having to accomodate player choice and flexibility.

Also I would like to see the rotations of units between factions and the idea of loyalist concerns manageing assests being more of a controlling factor to how players engage with CW. And perhaps that populations on the fronts skew rewards and involvement based on the proportional investment of the playerbase to ensure that more balancing can occur for the freedom of player choice. This then providing incentive to try and balance the numbers associated with factions and providing a more stable reality than big player units simply dictating the environment. (Merely stating observed facts).

At the end of the day I would never expect a full blown economy or a free market to be managed by players whose sole choices only effect the Galaxy but more certainly could be done so that the effects and participation have both more impact to the map and provide more and differing gameplay options, particularly the more strategical city builder/tower defence types of gameplay.

Measures stated above may provide more incentive for people to have more of an investment with CW as a result.

---

TL/DR: Give more realism to play, provide more player options and play mechanisms, provide incentives where involvement makes a difference. Balance the borders with logistical constraints and overheads.

[ArmandTulsen]

Rampage, on 16 March 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

A reason to go out and fight over dots on a map.

I will admit to being a bit of a BT nerd. I was not always like that. It started when I began studying BT while being involved in the MWLL alpha. Now, I find the "Mechbay tour" to be dezgra. I find Clans using Merc units to fight for them to be the same. I find Clans switching to IS to be the same.

With all that, I need a reason to play CW. I want to see a benefit for me and my team for winning a world, defending a world and holding a world for long periods of time. I want some level of immersion. Without something to entice me and make CW rewarding on a level besides free mechbays, I would just as soon continue to play QP.

By PGI's own admission 90% of the players seem to share that feeling.

You want immersion? What about a 15-20 second audio clip on one of your mech comm channels about the current mission? There could be multiple audio clips per faction and depending on what faction you're fighting the audio clip could be different.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 20 March 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[kentares kodiak]

After playing for a couple of times in Beta 1 and now (was absent from the game for almost a year) I think its improved on several things but the worse is the waiting. It kills FW in my opinion.

Waiting a couple of minutes would be fine but waiting for my team and for opponents and then waiting for building/loading the match is too much time (not sure what can be done to improve this - if its a server limitation or pure lack of players in FW). Even with the better rewards (assuming a victory) I win much more in QP (for cbills - of course that LP dont apply) in the same amount of time if I play well enough... and im not even going to talk about the ghost drops that happen regularly.

That being said I think some guys are too pessimist or fail to see this is Beta 2... so while its going in beta... theres a lot to do.

Im sure that more stuff will get improved but maybe now should be the bureocratic side of things that should be improved (beside the wait times).

Edited by kentares kodiak, 21 March 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[MaxFool]

kentares kodiak, on 21 March 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

After playing for a couple of times in Beta 1 and now (was absent from the game for almost a year) I think its improved on several things but the worse is the waiting. It kills FW in my opinion.

True. But also any kind of event running (that's not specifically aimed at FW) kills easily FW queues as people are reaping rewards in quick play. Secondly it's also faction specific, and since merc corps change factions all the time it varies which factions are getting the matches. And thirdly it can suck anyway if you are dropping solo, but at the same time people in groups may get matches very easily.

[kentares kodiak]

MaxFool, on 21 March 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

True. But also any kind of event running (that's not specifically aimed at FW) kills easily FW queues as people are reaping rewards in quick play. Secondly it's also faction specific, and since merc corps change factions all the time it varies which factions are getting the matches. And thirdly it can suck anyway if you are dropping solo, but at the same time people in groups may get matches very easily.

Hence why the balance between play time/reward should be very well balanced (i know its very difficult without making it look like PGI is pushing players one way or the other). Maybe if PGI discloses the numbers (I believe they should have this) or analising them internally could be used to balance that play time/reward problem.

Actually battletech lore/books have some good ideas for this in my opinion. House units get less pay but steady (giving them a income (salary) for example even if they are just on standby (the ghost drops maybe) with bonus payment for properly doing the job. Also get access - through LP´s and ranks - to the special house stuff, ranks, so on). Mercs get more pay but only if they do the job (if they dont only give a token payment) without any special stuff. Freelancers could be a middle ground (maybe having the payment of a merc but no access to special stuff). Just random ideas based on the lore and rulebooks.

I guess it all depends on what type of units there is at the moment (more house than mercs? more freelancers? more clanners?)

Edit = what im saying is that we could have 3 levels of players/play style here.

Mercs = More risky (breach of contract is punished for example), better paid if they do well, no special stuff.
House = Less risky, moderate but steady income with access to the house special stuff.
Freelancers = very little risk (no loyalty or contract to follow) but worse pay, no special stuff.

Edited by kentares kodiak, 21 March 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[MaxFool]

kentares kodiak, on 21 March 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Maybe if PGI discloses the numbers (I believe they should have this) or analising them internally could be used to balance that play time/reward problem.

I gotta ask, horrible misspell or horrible pun?

[kentares kodiak]

MaxFool, on 21 March 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

I gotta ask, horrible misspell or horrible pun?

Sorry... im not understanding your question...

oooohhh... I got it now. Just horrible misspell.

Edited by kentares kodiak, 21 March 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Since they're going to add the Matchmaker to FW soon, how about you give us a "trainer" bonus for every T5 guy in a trial mech we have to drop with?

They get a "cadet bonus," but we have to carry them. How about matching that bonus for those of us that have to put up with constant pugstomps because 10/12 of our teammates don't own any mechs?

[MischiefSC]

Willard Phule, on 23 March 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Since they're going to add the Matchmaker to FW soon, how about you give us a "trainer" bonus for every T5 guy in a trial mech we have to drop with?

They get a "cadet bonus," but we have to carry them. How about matching that bonus for those of us that have to put up with constant pugstomps because 10/12 of our teammates don't own any mechs?

What matchmaker?

[ArmandTulsen]

CW pay should be geometric. Right now, it feels logarithmic.

The more you pull your weight (e.g., staying in formation for longer periods of time, consistently focus firing etc.), the more you should be paid as the match progresses. Also, must have a big bonus for having more left over mechs in your dropship.

[MaxFool]

ArmandTulsen, on 27 March 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Also, must have a big bonus for having more left over mechs in your dropship.

No, there shouldn't be any bonus for that. It would promote only timid and/or selfish playstyle where you go pew pew pew with ERLLs (or, the horror, LRMs) and use your team mates as your meat shields while sharing none of the armor. We have too much of that garbage already. It is possible to get impressive stats that way (but often those players are just plain bad anyway and get bad results), but it's generally bad way to play, you can be amazingly useless for the team while getting decent stats and only one or two mechs used.

Those players are basically betting that their team will win despite them being selfish and useless.

Edited by MaxFool, 27 March 2016 - 12:22 PM.