52 replies to this topic

[Crockdaddy]

Dee Eight, on 16 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

spending MC for repeated advanced artillery obviously...

Oh young one ... we only spend MC on strikes if we do it by accident and notice it 2 months later the 15 MC at a time decrements. Cbill strikes are very easy to achieve.

[habu86]

Crockdaddy, on 18 March 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Oh young one ... we only spend MC on strikes if we do it by accident and notice it 2 months later the 15 MC at a time decrements. Cbill strikes are very easy to achieve.

I'm short one mechbay because of one such accident

[Crockdaddy]

habu86, on 19 March 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

I'm short one mechbay because of one such accident

Yeah ... out of 199 mechs finding the troublesome module requires a periodic spring cleaning event.

[Kamiko Kross]

How did they even put accurate fire down with those long burn times atcthat range.....? Was it simply the sheer mass of hits?

[Adamski]

TheB33f did a video with a 15 cERLL DWF, where it just insta exploded the target and itself from ghost heat.

12 Clan players x2 cERLL each = 24 cERLL with tonnage to spare for a cGauss each.

[MechWarrior4023212]

Clans are OP...get over it and work out some good tactics...we did!

[Adamski]

Ember Stormfield, on 19 March 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Clans are OP...get over it and work out some good tactics...we did!

If that tactic was to whine about Silkens hilariously awful 'test' matches on twitter until Russ had Paul do an across the board IS energy range nerf....

Or was it to split your unit into a separate unit on the IS side to throw a tantrum and prove that IS was OP?

[MechWarrior4023212]

Adamski, on 20 March 2016 - 12:42 AM, said:

If that tactic was to whine about Silkens hilariously awful 'test' matches on twitter until Russ had Paul do an across the board IS energy range nerf....

Or was it to split your unit into a separate unit on the IS side to throw a tantrum and prove that IS was OP?

[Widowmaker1981]

Koshirou, on 18 March 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

I don't see how this makes the BJ-3 into some kind of uber-sniper. Many other Mechs have PPC velocity quirks of 40% or 50%. And the 10% range increase, too, is neither unique, nor crucial, nor something that cannot be matched by the opposition.
In long-range sniping against mobile targets, all non-instantaneous weapons are subpar, in my experience.

For one thing, your targets are not likely to be mobile if they are using a long range ERLL firing line.. you try keeping torso mounted ERLLs on target at 1k range while moving... and when they are staitionary hitting them with ERPPCs while only being exposed for 1/2 a second is easy - and at that point they literally cant get decent damage on you in return due to beamtimes. Just need to re-positon a lot so they cant predict the point where you pop. With 4JJs it can be almost anywhere..

Also, go looking for mechs with these quirks:

30% PPC heat
10% Energy Range
50% PPC velocity.

The heat, combined with the range and velocity is unique.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 20 March 2016 - 04:54 AM.

[Koshirou]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 March 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

For one thing, your targets are not likely to be mobile

So, why is the velocity so foxtrotting important then? (Not that I subscribe to the idea that your targets are just gonna stand there in the first place.)
I don't see where the BJ-3's chief disadvantage (which is simply being an IS 45 tonner) is outweighed by the minimal advantages it enjoys over other potential ER PPC snipers, like the good old 9S. You claimed that the BJ-3 was unique in that aspect, that the ER PPC was garbage unless mounted on that specific Mech. Neither the numbers, nor my experiences (which are of course not representative) with a BJ-3 so armed match these claims.

Edited by Koshirou, 20 March 2016 - 07:55 AM.

[habu86]

Koshirou, on 20 March 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

So, why is the velocity so foxtrotting important then?

Velocity is important for two reasons:
1.) It gives the target less time to react and torso twist to spread damage
2.) It makes the weapon useful for situations other than counter-sniping against an immobile firing line.

Koshirou, on 20 March 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Not that I subscribe to the idea that your targets are just gonna stand there in the first place.

Mechs in a firing line aren't glued to a certain set of coordinates, but their ability to move around is, nevertheless, severely limited. They can sometimes take a few steps backwards or forwards to drop behind cover, or make themselves a marginally-harder target to hit. But the fundamental strengths of a firing line are that it occupies valuable real estate, it dominates the approach lanes, and presents the attacking force with enough targets that selection and prioritization is difficult even for an experienced team; you can't achieve that effect if everybody is running around, doing whatever.

The ability to form, stand in, and fight from a firing line is one of the main differentiators between capable teams and pugs who just happen to drop together.

By the same token, the key to defeating firing lines lies in removing their advantages; maneuvering to superior ground, finding ways to outtrade them (by outranging, flanking, or out-DPSing them), and generally finding ways to weaken them and force them out of their superior positions prior to a coordinated push.

Koshirou, on 20 March 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

I don't see where the BJ-3's chief disadvantage (which is simply being an IS 45 tonner) is outweighed by the minimal advantages it enjoys over other potential ER PPC snipers, like the good old 9S. You claimed that the BJ-3 was unique in that aspect, that the ER PPC was garbage unless mounted on that specific Mech. Neither the numbers, nor my experiences (which are of course not representative) with a BJ-3 so armed match these claims.

The BJ-3's advantages lie in its combination of quirks (+10% energy range, -30% ERPPC heat gen, +50% ERPPC velocity), high mounts, and hardpoint count. If you're looking for an ERPPC sniper, this platform will make the weapon system as viable as it's going to get. Even the -9S doesn't have a quirk combination that good; compare the two side-by-side in the Li Song Mechlab and see the numbers for yourself.

On top of that, the BJ-3 only takes up 45 tons, so you don't have to forgo a workhorse- or carry-tier heavy or assault in order to bring an ERPPC sniper in your deck.

Edited by habu86, 21 March 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[Tasker]

Pro tip: if they can't see you, they can't shoot you with their 1.5 second burn time lasers.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tasker, on 22 March 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

Pro tip: if they can't see you, they can't shoot you with their 1.5 second burn time lasers.

Yup. And if they can only see you for 0.5s they can only do an amazing 3.6 dmg for 10 heat, at best, assuming they are pros

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 23 March 2016 - 02:26 AM.