72 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

tl;dr Every single Archer variant is outperformed by existing mechs. That performance deficit can be directly attributed to the lack of quirks. This is especially true for heat where PGI changed the heat system in weapons without providing any weapon types that the additional PGI heat can be offset with quirks.

Please remember these are first thoughts done after just a few matches without any skills added (which would likely help the heat problems a tiny bit)

Archer 2R

This one is garbage. It has nothing but LRM quirks but only 3 missile hardpoints. LRM velocity might as well not be a quirk because it has zero impact on mech performance. A tiny percentage buff to a really slow projectile doesn't make a lick of difference. The LRM cooldown would be okay on a larger mech that could fit in more heatsinks, but unless you limit yourself to LRM5's, it's just pointless. Add in the fact that you're big and slow, and you're just Arctic Cheetah food (which is how my 2R died in every single match I took it...not even kidding).

Archer 5S

Laser vomit. We have better mechs for this. The Warhammers and Black Widows come to mind right away. In fact, the recently added Warhammers pretty much outperform every single Archer variant, and the Warhammer 7S is a better LRM boat than any Archer. That fact is wrong on so many levels.

Archer 5W

Oh, this could have been so grand with all those happy missile hardpoints. Alas, a 70 ton mech can't make use of them in LRM configuration, and while I have had some fun throwing 8 SRM 6's (because 9 SRM4's had slot problems and 9 SRM2's is a waste as it's the equivalent of just 3 SRM6's). Of course with only mediocre accel quirks and low structure quirks combined with no quirks for the SRM's if you go that way, it's just an average splat mech compared with, well, any missile quirked IS mech.

Tempest

Medium laser cooldown of 5%? Why bother? At least the missile cooldown is general so you can get some effect if you go splat build, but again, a tiny reduction isn't going to make that much of a difference. The only thing you have going for you is ECM in a heavy, but it's a heavy that doesn't do anything well compare to practically any other IS heavy.

In short, every single complaint people had about the "leaked" quirks has borne fruit. The biggest challenge I'm having is heat because these mechs have no heat quirks in a game that adds heat beyond the TT rules. I know ghost heat is going away, but I'd like to be able to use my new toys before then.

[Y E O N N E]

9xSRM2 has way higher DPS than 3x SRM6 and much tighter grouping.

It's basically free Artemis.

That said, it's got the wrong geo for brawling.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

That said, it's got the wrong geo for brawling.

Yup.

[Xavori]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

9xSRM2 has way higher DPS than 3x SRM6 and much tighter grouping.

It's basically free Artemis.

That said, it's got the wrong geo for brawling.

Hrm. Half the cooldown...but I'm running 8x SRM6's, so I have way, way more psuedo alpha (I have the 4 left on left mouse, and the 4 right on right mouse). It's kinda like running a clan laser vomit mech, but with added vulnerability.

Now if we could combine quirk + module to get that SRM2 cooldown to 1 second, I'd go for that

Btw, I'd like to make it clear while I think the Archers are all underperformers, and that the 2R and 5S are garbage, the 5W and Tempest can work.

I mean, even without skills, I pulled this off in a Tempest when I had some help with heat from the environment.

http://images.akamai...C1252D4F489F2F/

[Chimera_]

I don't have the Archer, but I'm pretty unimpressed from the half dozen or so I've already fought in brawling range. Yeah they can pack a punch, but they seem very easy to kill.

Also, I have to say to all the Archers I've seen today...

If you're using a hybrid lrm build, you shouldn't just sit at 1000 meters and lurm. If you have lasers, you should use them.

It's not a huge deal though. I mean I really don't mind sneaking around to those guys spamming ineffective max-range lrms and letting them have it, even if it takes me running a little ways further to get there.

[Y E O N N E]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hrm. Half the cooldown...but I'm running 8x SRM6's, so I have way, way more psuedo alpha (I have the 4 left on left mouse, and the 4 right on right mouse). It's kinda like running a clan laser vomit mech, but with added vulnerability.

Now if we could combine quirk + module to get that SRM2 cooldown to 1 second, I'd go for that

Btw, I'd like to make it clear while I think the Archers are all underperformers, and that the 2R and 5S are garbage, the 5W and Tempest can work.

I mean, even without skills, I pulled this off in a Tempest when I had some help with heat from the environment.

http://images.akamai...C1252D4F489F2F/

But the 8x6 runs extremely hot, it's not worth it.

I would actually run it as 4x4+5x2, but that'll have to wait for the C-bill offering since this 'Mech isn't pretty enough to compel me to spend moniez on it.

[0bsidion]

If anyone is still buying mechs because they think since they're new and shiny they're automatically going to eclipse everything currently in the game, well, they're bound to be disappointed.

This was a nostalgia collectors' mech, like all the unseen. Any meta potential was going to be purely coincidental.

Edited by 0bsidion, 15 March 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[ReemusX]

Yes, so far the 5W and Tempest are my best ones. I am socked that a missile-only variant only has LRM, velocity quirks and nothing to do with SRM or heat.

As for the structure quirks..... they are so minor that they almost are a waste of text.

I removed the XL engines since it seems that the RT and LT really pop fast. The XL engine just causes me to lose engine. My Thunderbolts feel more solid in a brawl than the Archer so far.

But.... The Tempest I like all around. My 5w ended up with 4 LRM 5s on chain and 5 SRM4 and can really dish out some pain around 250m.

All in all I am = with the Archer. I think the quirks are garbage but still getting used to running the Archers. The worst I see right now are heat probs.....really bad heat probs.

[Lupis Volk]

I'm a mad man and use 8 SRM 4's and i brawl with it. heck i've done 927 in one match.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Before I begin, just know that I can't take 'em out in the live environment. Internet connection issues. Long story, that a 300' length of coax cable could fix if only someone would get off their f***ing a***s, and I'm SO not renewing this lease next year.

So.

ARC-2R. I like it with 3x LRM-10, 5x ML, and TAG. So far, haven't done the ENDO thing, but I imagine I could free up weight for a bigger engine or a couple more DHS (which is an absolute must-have). Works well enough. Lasers on 1 & 2, LRMs chained on 3, and it does pretty well when the TAG is on spot.

ARC-5W. 9x SRM-4? Doable with a BIG ol engine. XL 340, in fact. Hey, it's not like these things are survivable anyhow, so may as well. Could probably do it slower with a STD, but where's the fun in that? The 4s group tight, and fired in groups of 2 or 3 they're quite manageable for heat. And it just looks cool A. F.

TEMPEST. I'm more of the paired ALRM-15, 5x ML, TAG guy here. XL 280 or XL 300. Not gonna win any contests. Not bad, though. Mid-pack for hero mechs, anyhow.

ARC-5S. Still haven't found a build I like here, but I haven't played much with it yet. Would it be a BAD thing to do the -2R build on this, minus a couple lasers? I just don't like a PAIR of SSRM-2s for it, going with 5 of them seems a waste of the missile points, and my best guess so far is something like 5x LRM-10, which is STUPID heavy and just not good. This might be the weakling of the bunch for me, at least for now. Might try the middle ground, and go 5x SRM-4 and 4x ML or MPL.

AGAIN, haven't had these out live yet, and probably won't for a while. And in fairness, it's NOT ComCast's fault after all! Hey, if I was quick to trash 'em, then I should also be quick to recognize when I was wrong for it. And they've been pretty good to us over this whole thing.

One complaint: NOT ENOUGH LRM ARCHERS! I DID manage to get in 2 drops tonight before the connection went back to its normal >600ms spikes thing. One in a JR7-IIC-2 (4x SPL, NARC, XL 315, 3x JJ) and one in a RVN-3L(C) (2x ML, ECM, BAP, TAG, NARC, 2x ML, XL 295). All kinda of NARC flowing. TAG, too. Bonuses for NARC- or TAG-locked stuff? ZERO. Like, seriously, where ARE you LRM trolls? Do I have to do ALL the derping?

[ReemusX]

Yes, already tossed on the SRM4 range and cool down modules to compliment the LRM 5 barrage and have good hits up to 300m. SRMs in arms is nice as well.

[ReemusX]

Honestly I am not at all impressed with the money spent. Would have rather used Catapult for LRM (which I rarely ever use LRMs) and Thunderbolt (have all of them) for the laser vomit. I run same speeds, no heat issues really, better DPS, and without a doubt can survive in a brawl a lot longer than the Archer does. The Top Dog has way better structure quirks as well.

The Catapult or even my Stalker do just fine for throwing the rotten eggs across the map. Granted I just had an 800dmg match in my 5W and a slew of 400-600dmg matches with that, my Tempest, and even 2R.... but it just doesn't feel solid to me. Even only using half the hard points for weapons so I can slam heat sinks in I still have heat probs that come up fast....a LOT faster than my bolts.

Hey, it looks cool though!

[Xavori]

Like I said in the other archer thread (now that I've at least got a few skills in my Tempest)

Ninja Archer is best Archer

http://images.akamai...69C341C3957FCD/
http://images.akamai...1455BC3868916C/

And I'm running a 300XL engine because fear is the mindkiller

[Y E O N N E]

PGI has been going real light on the weapon quirks. It's like they forgot why heat gen was so prolific before.

Even 18 sinks is not enough for a mere six-pack of MedLas at full heat on the current playing field. So either everything else has too much sustain, or the newer 'Mechs don't have enough.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Or PGI could pare back the existing quirks a bit to make them more in line with the archer.

[ReemusX]

Hmm... running 9 SRM4 on the 5W for laughs. HPG map....walked under the spire and walked right up behind a jenner playing peek on the ramp. Stood still about 10 feet from him....aimed dead center rear... Fired all 9 SRM4s (yes my doors were open). 71dmg alpha and 74% heat..... Jenner turns around and takes off running. Now how in the hell wasn't that a one shot kill?

Same match, walked up on a Marauder at his base with yellow torso armor. Blasted him CT 2 alphas (and shut down for about an hour).... Marauder dead. Still wondering about that Jenner

Edited by ReemusX, 15 March 2016 - 08:55 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

A fatter, slower, less flexible Catapult. Cannot take advantage of the additonal tonnage for larger/more missiles since it doesnt have the space. Even with an xl you will be hard pressed to carry even 2 lrm 20s and decent ammo/backup weapons, pretty much meaning you stick mostly with 2 lrm 15's with artemis if you are running lrms...Something the Catapult can take as well, while going 75kph with jumpjets. I feel like ive wasted money. Was going to upgrade to the full package when I got paid, not anymore.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 15 March 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Or PGI could pare back the existing quirks a bit to make them more in line with the archer.

Not the worst idea.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Yeah speaking of quirks...its almost painful to fire unquirked IS lrms now...without a rate of fire bonus on the tempest it feels like I can read a book in between my reloads...where on my catapult I'm 100% certain I can put 2 flights of missiles in the air for every 1 my tempest fires....

[Y E O N N E]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 15 March 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Or PGI could pare back the existing quirks a bit to make them more in line with the archer.

Which is what I was implying.

But that would also require paring back the Clans, too, because full-heat IS weapons lose to Clans bringing the same quantity of firepower...which was adequately demonstrated during the last set of PTS sessions.