40 replies to this topic

[Darkfieros]

Can we please give greater rewards for the game modes that aren't skirmish (team deathmatches)? Domination, conquest, assault, all have objectives other than killing the enemy (skirmish) yet the rewards for accomplishing this are not even mediocre they are so bad. There is NO incentive to finish a game by any other means other than killing everyone.

Just Sayin,

The Management.

[MechWarrior4023212]

They need to award more c bills and xp for objectives than damage/ kills

[MrMadguy]

The problem is in fact, that if PGI will give all rewards for capping - players will completely ignore each other and will cap only. And PGI don't want to give rewards for free. That's, what happened with Assault - players started to ignore each other and perform NASCAR cap rushes instead. This leaded to implementation of Skirmish. That's, what happens with Domination now. 25K CB for 1 minute match - is much more effective, than trying to actually play this mode.

[MechWarrior4023212]

MrMadguy, on 20 March 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that if PGI will give all rewards for capping - players will completely ignore each other and will cap only. And PGI don't want to give rewards for free.

Sorry but that is now redundant as the death of mechs does not lead to a win. So the system will change to have teams looking for the caps instead of standing in the middle and shooting each other.

Quote

That's, what happened with Assault - players started to ignore each other and perform NASCAR cap rushes instead.

Yes they need to look at that as well, and I think they are looking to change it.

Quote

This leaded to implementation of Skirmish. That's, what happens with Domination now. 25K CB for 1 minute match - is much more effective, than trying to actually play this mode.

Early times for this mode, as players sort out what they need to do. Cap rushing is a tactic, just means the other team needs to be as active. Clan mechs for the win

I was in a match that last under two minutes as the other team never even entered the cap zone....I am not happy with a pitiful amount of xp and c bills!

Edited by Ember Stormfield, 20 March 2016 - 12:52 AM.

[Triordinant]

PGI should go back to letting players choose which modes they want to play. That way you're always playing for the victory conditions you choose and everyone on both teams chose to play for those victory conditions too.

Edited by Triordinant, 20 March 2016 - 03:18 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

To be honest, I'm ecstatic that more and more people are talking about the bad game modes in MWO. They've sort of been ignored for a long time, but I think people are starting to realize that they are indeed 50 shades of deathmatch.

PGI devs need to play other PVP games, and so do MWO players. Then they'll realize what they're missing out on.

[Sergeant Random]

The game is about big mechs with big guns. I do not see what is wrong with killing stuff.

Talk to me again when speed and sensor suites matter.

[Ace Selin]

Sergeant Random, on 20 March 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

The game is about big mechs with big guns. I do not see what is wrong with killing stuff.

Talk to me again when speed and sensor suites matter.

Totally with you!!

[LordNothing]

id rather they get rid of the capping and do a bunch of deathmatch type game modes, including real deathmath with respawn and no teams. you could have skirmish, free for all (respawn), last man standing (ffa, one mech), lance ffa, last lance standing, etc. quick play needs to be 100% murder.

and you dont have to kill the other modes either. give them drop decks and merge them into fw. that will make them playable.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 March 2016 - 05:39 AM.

[Sergeant Random]

I rocked MW3 LAN games in an under-engined, dual CUAC-20, dual CERmedlas Thor with 4 (0.5ton, MW3) jumpjets. 10tons ammo. I could 2-alpha-killl two heavies and then cripple anything with my last 2rounds. Then I would terrorize my friends with an ammoless Thor. I consistently had a 2 to 1 Kill/Death ratio.

Yeah, respawns are fun, I agree. But dishonorable. I know.

Edited by Sergeant Random, 20 March 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Coolant]

If only they would introduce true respawn...

[Gyrok]

Darkfieros, on 19 March 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Can we please give greater rewards for the game modes that aren't skirmish (team deathmatches)? Domination, conquest, assault, all have objectives other than killing the enemy (skirmish) yet the rewards for accomplishing this are not even mediocre they are so bad. There is NO incentive to finish a game by any other means other than killing everyone.

Just Sayin,

The Management. Whiny PUG.

Assault is there to force an enemy to react to a stimulus in TDM.

Conquest is there to make TDM more mobile.

Skirmish is there to be a pure TDM.

Domination is there to force TDM up close at a single point on the map.

There is no game mode in MWO that is not TDM...if you want something besides TDM, we have not had it in 4-ish years now. Might as well find another game that scratches that itch...maybe we will stop getting stupid ideas like waiting for conquest to finish capping before we can get our mechs back. Maybe, they will let us lock out one game mode (conquest) instead...?

Either way...something besides TDM is not what MWO does...other games can do that for you.

[sycocys]

Not that I believe PGI has the fortitude to actually stick to developing modes until they are something good, but its hard to improve modes if all everyone does with them is ignore the mode and play death match or yell at the players that actually play the objectives.

The players are part of the problem, drunk developers are a part of the problem - nothing will ever get improved.

[Darkfieros]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Assault is there to force an enemy to react to a stimulus in TDM. - You don't get it.

Conquest is there to make TDM more mobile. - You still don't get it.

Skirmish is there to be a pure TDM.

Domination is there to force TDM up close at a single point on the map. - You will NEVER get it.

There is no game mode in MWO that is not TDM...if you want something besides TDM, we have not had it in 4-ish years now. Might as well find another game that scratches that itch...maybe we will stop getting stupid ideas like waiting for conquest to finish capping before we can get our mechs back. Maybe, they will let us lock out one game mode (conquest) instead...?

Either way...something besides TDM is not what MWO does...other games can do that for you.

Clearly you don't get my point, in that why have the other options, if you're not going to give meaningful rewards for accomplishing it. Take your bad attitude elsewhere as the conversation is not for you and above your head.

The Management.

Edited by Darkfieros, 20 March 2016 - 09:25 PM.

[LordNothing]

Gyrok, on 20 March 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Either way...something besides TDM is not what MWO does...other games can do that for you.

mwll had deathmatch proper. it was hella fun. and they even got duncan fisher.

other games having those modes is the reason mwo cant compete with them. i remember unreal tournament had more modes than i knew what to do with and it cost less than what i spent on mwo. it even made me shelf the quake 3 arena cd its modes were just better. you give the people more dm modes and everyone will love it. thats the only kind of game that works in the quick play. more advanced modes (domination, assault, conquest) really need to be part of the greater fw experience and should be worked into 3.0.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 March 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[Krivvan]

The point of objectives aren't for teams to just go for the objectives. The point is that they prevent static gameplay such as teams camping strong positions. They force teams to have to move and force decisions to have to be made.

It's not a good idea to start an objective match with the intention of winning the game solely by going for the objectives. That won't change by changing how the rewards work.

Now, the reason "every game mode is deathmatch" is twofold: the inability for a single player to hold off larger numbers and the inability to respawn.

1) Most of the tactical decisions made in this game involve outnumbering an opponent. This can mean getting more guns at once on an opponent than they can via positioning and movement. This is not a game where a single mech in an amazing position can normally hold off much larger numbers of mechs. This means that relying on small numbers of mechs to go for caps and hold points around the map is a bad idea (although Lights can still detour to take caps when neccessary). If you want this to change, the main way to do it is to reduce time-to-kill. Yes, reducing time-to-kill is the main way you avoid deathballing from occurring. The higher the TTK, the more emphasized deathballing is.

2) Without any respawning the easiest way to deny an opponent an objective is to kill them all. The easiest way to kill them all is to outnumber them. The easiest way to outnumber them is to not split your team up too much trying to focus on just the objectives.

You want a game focused on just objectives? Then you want a lower time-to-kill (or some other big advantage allowing a single player to prevail against many others) and the introduction of respawns. I don't actually think a game based primarily on the objectives would be all that fun though. In most games, such as counterstrike, objectives are secondary and serve to make fights happen.

Darkfieros, on 20 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

Clearly you don't get my point, in that why have the other options, if you're not going to give meaningful rewards for accomplishing it. Take your bad attitude elsewhere as the conversation is not for you and above your head.

That meaningful reward is winning the match.

Edited by Krivvan, 20 March 2016 - 10:00 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Until playing the objectives becomes easier than simply killing everyone and then taking the objectives after all modes will remain deathmatch.

The way to make killing everyone harder? Add limited respawns (aka dropdeck / halfdeck) to objective based game modes.

[Sergeant Random]

I have played fun games with respawns... (MW3)

Respawns are for people who want to bully damaged mechs in a fresh one easy peasy like. A little dishonorable, I think.

What we have is PGI's design choice, ... don't know if they'll go for respawns.

[Krivvan]

Sergeant Random, on 20 March 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

What we have is PGI's design choice, ... don't know if they'll go for respawns.

What we have is PGI making the design choice of not having respawns, but then not really understanding the ramifications of that and working with/around it and instead thinking that they can make matches more "objective-focused" through ham-fisted changes.

[MrMadguy]

If you think, that this game should be about something else, then killing other 'Mechs - then picked the wrong game. If you want to play some purely strategical game, CapWarrior Online for example, then may be you should play RTS games instead? FPS games were always about killing others. Game modes were always about ONLY two things:
1) Encourage active gameplay and discourage passive - prevent players from camping, hiding, using starvation tactics, etc.
2) Encourage team play and discourage solo - you can do "mess in the center" or deathmatch solely, but you need team to assault enemy base.

Nothing more. If you think, that this game should not be TDM - you're wrong.