11 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

(with the Archer getting new quirks, it's time to start b***ching about the Phoenix Hawk. Oh, and yes while Kodiak is next on release, it's a Clan Battlemech, so you should just assume no quirks.)

While the Rifleman and Jaegermech were close, they were not identical in roles. With the Phoenix Hawk's uncoming release, I'm really concerned it's just going to be a Griffin in a new chassis, or worse, if they leave things lore-based, it's going to be a lighter armored Griffin which works okay in tabletop where there are roles for quicker recon-type mechs, but in MWO, it's all about splatter the other guy which could be a serious problem for 'em.

They even initially appear to have similar variants except that the PXH's go ballistic whereas the GRF are missiles. Given how much worse the tonnage requirement is on ballistics, that's not usually a good trade to make. They could end up lower damage than the GRF in very short order, especially as most GRF's also have additional energy quirks letting them slide much easier into the laservomit meta.

The one potential interesting spot I see with the PXH is the 1B variant. It might very well be an ECM dual gauss sniper if you could work a build that would let it carry enough ammo to make that worth doing. Even as a single gauss sniper (if the ammo thing doesn't work out for dual), it's still got potential.

However, even if you want such a sniper, it's still might be a weak alternative to the GFN 2N which is a rock solid dual ER PPC sniper with ECM.

[Garfuncle]

One of the things the PH has going for it is that it will be the first medium released with the new scaling. Look at how small the Archer is and think of what the PH will be.

[El Bandito]

Nah, the fight should be BJ vs Phawk, as they are both 45 tons. Or Bindicator.

Xavori, on 21 March 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

The one potential interesting spot I see with the PXH is the 1B variant. It might very well be an ECM dual gauss sniper if you could work a build that would let it carry enough ammo to make that worth doing. Even as a single gauss sniper (if the ammo thing doesn't work out for dual), it's still got potential.

ECM + Dual Gauss on a 45 tonner? Do you even Smurphy, bro? The mech will have to strip off all its armor for that to even be feasible.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 March 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

They aren't remotely similar with respect to how they are used in this game (because SRMs). If the Griffin is closest to any mech in the game as far as lore role goes, it is closest to the Vindicator imo. PPC with LRM mech jumping medium.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 March 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[Xavori]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

ECM + Dual Gauss on a 45 tonner? Do you even Smurphy, bro? The mech will have to strip off all its armor for that to even be feasible.

And? You can do the build using a Blackjack and leaving 3 tons open for the ECM in Smurfy. Sure you're squishy as hell, but so what...you're a sniper with a nearly impossible to track projectile and ECM making you freakin' hard to find.

(p.s. No. No way in hell would I actually run that build. I'd much rather just go single gauss, not run around nearly naked, and carry a lot more ammo, but it doesn't change the fact its doable )

[The Lobsters]

The PHX with a XL340 and full armour would take a payload of 13.5 tons I believe.


IIRC,.... which I may not as it's late.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its going to be quirked better than Grif, so Grif loses out of the box.

[El Bandito]

Xavori, on 21 March 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

(p.s. No. No way in hell would I actually run that build. I'd much rather just go single gauss, not run around nearly naked, and carry a lot more ammo, but it doesn't change the fact its doable )

A fact which I mentioned.

[jss78]

There's no 'mech in the game which has quite the same role (why I'm looking forward to the PXH). BJ is a slower fire-support build, same for Vindicator (except the 1AA, which was specifically a PXH competitor, but was still slower).

PXH is an overgrown scout and IMO the closest comparison is with the jumping Cicada 3F.

I've run the CDA-3F quite a lot, and find it to do quite well in a flanker/skirmisher role, with amazing mobility to get to good firing positions, relocating frequently, and enough long-range guns to avoid getting too close when it's not safe. I wouldn't use it as a "heavy ACH" type of striker. I think the PXH will do the same nicely, with a little more tonnage to play with and better humanoid hitboxes.

Edited by jss78, 22 March 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

A no armoured dual Guass medium gets to shoot me exactly once... ECM or not...

In the pug queue maybe it could do something, but in the group queue it would just be roflstomped.

[627]

lol dual gauss on 45 tons. You didn't think this through, do you?

BJ-1

Let's not forget the hawk has 4 less crit spaces because lower and arm actuators. So you have a speed of an urbanmech, the armor of... wait let's not call it that at all and only 15 shots with no backup weapons.

That is not even a joke build, it is just not going to work. I mean looking at that the Dual AC20 cicada was a good build...

Edited by 627, 22 March 2016 - 01:15 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Griffin IMO. It is heavier, still quick, and delivers a solid punch.

I think the biggest issue with the Phoenix Hawk is the multiple ballistic slots (2 or more) low mounted on a 45 ton humanoid mech. The Vindicator 1X (also 45 tons) has an issue using more than 1 ballistic at it's weight. Some variants have 3 ballistic hardpoints. To me, 45 tons is just too light for multiple ballistics in MWO. it just creates more unused hardpoints. If you are going to assign a ballistic hardpoint on a 45 ton medium, just make one and make the rest energy since they are much lighter for the damage they do (which is important on such a light medium mech).

It does have MASC and ECM variants and that's pretty big. Still, you probably will see more energy versions than anything. Luckily one variant of the Phoenix Hawk has 6 energy.