38 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

FLG 01, on 23 March 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Well then... I like these Mechs, so here is a quick and dirty introduction:

The Ost-Series is something of a dark horse even among Battletech fans, mostly because of its... "special" artworks in TRO:3025, but they do have some merits both in-universe and for the game.

In the Battletech universe the Ost-series was the first major foray into the walker-pod design which would later be continued by the more popular Marauder and Stalker. The rather ungainly appearance had some advantages, including a very low silhouette. In fact, the 60ton Ostroc was said to be no larger than the UrbanMech (!) in TRO:3025. Later this has been retconned to the more believable and vague statement that the Ostroc is small and difficult to hit.

The comparison to the UrbanMech is no coincidence because the Ostroc was originally intended for urban combat. However the Star League Defense Force quickly realized the potential of the Ost-Series for a cavalry Mech, carrying large engines.

So the successor the Ostroc, the Ostsol, was designed for offensive and raiding operations with the Hussar and Dragoon units of the SLDF: A cavalry Mech. As such it was fast and used energy weapons only.

Both Mechs have a 300-STD engine and thus could be very fast in MWO, while being relatively small, and well protected. The armament is not all that impressive, but the reliance on a battery of lasers would not be a too big disadvantage in MWO. To put it mildly.

Both Mechs were extensively used by the IS powers, but since the factories were destroyed, no replacements were available. So by 3052, the Ost-Mechs were rare Mechs but valued by their pilots. While the true renaissance of the Ost-series only happened in the 3060ies, there are a number of variants available even as of 3052.


So here is a small breakdown of the more interesting variants (not an exhaustive overview):

Ostroc 60 ton IS Battlemech
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc

• OSR-2C: the basic version /// 2x LL, 2x ML, 1x SRM4 /// STD 300 engine
  
• OSR-2Cb: the upgrade intended for the Royal SLDF units /// 2x ERLL, 2x ML, 2x SSRM2 /// DHS /// FF armour
  
• OSR-2M: increased manoeuvrability by adding Jump Jets, the SRM had to be removed
  
• OSR-3C: the sniper /// 3x LL
  
• (Hero) Michi Noketsuna: piloting a custom Ostroc with reduced speed but greater firepower and Jump Jets /// 2x LL, 2x ML, 1x SRM6 /// STD 240 engine
  
• (Hero) Jerome Blake: rumoured to have piloted an Ostroc of unknown configuration; would give PGI some liberties to create a new hero. As one of the highest ranking SL official of the time and friend of the SLDF commander Kerensky he would have had access to cutting edge tech.

Ostsol 60 ton IS Battlemech
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostsol

• OTL-4D: the basic version /// 2x LL, 4x ML /// STD 300 engine
  
• OTL-4F: a poor man’s Marauder, often used to compete with heavier Mechs /// 2x PPC (might be used for massive PPC quirks)
  
• OTL-4M: the pulse laser boat /// 2x LPL, 4x MPL, 1x AMS /// XL 300 engine
  
• (Hero) Ragnar Magnusson: although he most likely piloted a stock OTL-4D, PGI may take the liberty to add a custom hero Mech.

In my opinion, the Ostroc would be a better choice for MWO, as the versions are more diverse and there is at least one fully canonic hero Mech plus a canon rumoured hero Mech.

These would add an interesting new look to mechs on the field.

+1 for quad mechs to and a support role for players that maybe these mechs could do or a mine laying machine of some sort.

[Clownwarlord]

I would really love to see some quad mechs. 4 legs awesome ... this would just be cool.

[FLG 01]

clownwarlord, on 23 March 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Well you brought up the rifleman but the Ost would fill a different roll of being better than the Quickdraw which I think would be a better comparison.

Please remember, I am a fan of the Ost-series.

I merely speculated why they are not in game not that I agree with it. In fact, I would very much like them as they fit my play style like a glove. And as an old-school ComStar fan I would love to pilot Sainted Jerome Blake's Mech (even if I do know it is a rather unsubstantiated rumour).

[Lupis Volk]

clownwarlord, on 23 March 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

So basically they would play like a medium load out on a heavy plat form with medium maneuverability? That sounds great. Why are these not in the game now? They clearly have some merit to them and what about the ostscout mech? I hear people say it has no merit but maybe introducing it we can find a fit for it? What is that mech like?

I'd like to see them in as well. But i think the complaint form the clans saying that the IS have more mechs than them may be either been the nail in the coffin or caused them to be put on the back burner.

[Clownwarlord]

I can agree with that Clans need more mechs but IS need new mechs as well otherwise one or both sides will feel that they are getting stagnate for game play. I feel the Ost mechs would bring a fun game play for IS in that way. As for clans well that is why there are threads for what should be the next clan mech.

But for IS after the Phoenix Hawk I say Ost mechs. And hopefully quads some day.

[FLG 01]

Some more concept art:






They don't like they fit into MWO very much, but they do further illustrate that a lot can be done with walker-pod-design.
My favourites are still Shortpainter's interpretations.

[Ace Selin]

Getting mechs that look visually different is always a good thing imo, and these somewhat fit the bill, though they are tall & lanky like Grasshoppers

Edited by Ace Selin, 24 March 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Malachy Karrde]

Melee is not being added to the game. The Kodiak claws are merely art and not usable. We will never see a hatchet man or any other melee mechs. And in the off chance we do, they will have no melee capability.

[FLG 01]

Ace Selin, on 24 March 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Getting mechs that look visually different is always a good thing imo, and these somewhat fit the bill, though they are tall & lanky like Grasshoppers

The great height is more of an artist interpretation since the TROs like to stress a low silhouette - the original TRO:3025 even said the Ostroc is no larger than the UrbanMech (which was probably retconned as it was never said again, but the low silhouette is continued to be stated).
This is actually a reason why I like the Mech. In MWO a smaller Mech is a smaller target.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

NOPE. The Kodiak's claws are decorative only. It's unclear if they'll even have hitboxes. NO MELEE.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 March 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

So been thinking... and the community doesn't hate me enough lol

Ost mechs. Probably the most hated mechs that I have come across. The word Ost seems to be synonymous with heart break and livid fury around here. Every person I have met has more or less said that they'd rather pilot Locust with flamers.

So first question is: why does everyone hate these mechs? And the second question begins with this: so tons of people keep wanting useless variants and mechs that really don't add anything to the game or reinvigorate a design, but they keep asking and keep getting them. Hence all these extraneous reinforcement packages and ****, and also all these new mechs coming out (I mean seriously... the only reason Phoenix Hawk is coming around is because its iconic... we already have like 4 Inner Sphere mechs alone that can do its job perfectly). So with that being said... why not the Ost mechs? Yeah they are ****** but honestly... adding things we don't need isn't any better. Why not?

While we are on the topic of releasing mechs we obviously don't need, why not also release mechs like: Axeman. Like seriously since melee is beginning to come around with Kodiak we could very possibly consider Axman. There is a hole list of melee mechs that are possible.

Or we could maybe decide to actually add something truly INNOVATIVE to this game and talk about Quadruped mechs. The ability to side step (in the case of Scorpion and Tarantula) would be a great addition. Goliath would definitely be a decent long range mech too (especially considering that it would barely even have to reveal itself to hit people from behind cover, because of the tank turret).

We could also talk about LAM mechs. Sure they suck kinda, but it would be a very interesting feature to the game. They would easily be able to perform way better recon, and would move freaking crazy fast in the air. Could be a whole new and innovative feature that could change the gameplay in a really interesting way. In my personal opinion anyways. I am about as stupid as it comes to lore and ****, but then again... MWO follows TT and lore about as well as MW4 Vengeance did... if not worse.

Thoughts?

Ostmechs. Why the hate? Probably mostly because the original art for the Osts looked... Well, let's be honest. It looked crap, even compared to some of the other less than stellar early BT artwork. That's really the main reason _I_ never had much love for them anyways. Seeing what Alex could do with them might be interesting though.

Axman, Hatchetman etc. I doubt we'll see mechs with melee weapons until PGI decides it's time to introduce actual melee again, and I doubt that's any time in the near future. The Kodiak's claws are, if I'm not much mistaken, ornamental in nature, even in TT.

Quads. I'd love it, but you're getting Juodas' hopes up, and that way lies heartbreak. Do you really wanna be responsible for that?

LAMs? Heh. Probably shouldn't hold your breath. That would probably involve a lot of extra animation work and so on, what with the transformation sequence. Furthermore, do you give them just the Mech and AirMech configurations or do you go whole hog and also let them enter Aerospace Fighter mode, because that opens up an entirely new can of balancing worms.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 March 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

Speed of a Spider stock, has like 4 tons of armor, 35 tons, and its entire weapon armament is an amazing 1 Medium laser.

Well,,, Unless it's it's the 3050 redesign where they took away that medium laser and replaced it with... a TAG. Yep. No offensive weapons at all. Apparently the reasoning, according to the TRO, was that that single medium laser made the pilots all gung-ho and bloodthirsty so they couldn't do their scouting job properly. Understandable, really. The power of a single MedLaser does make you feel like a god of the battlefield.

[Alistair Winter]

Point by point:

Why do people hate Ost mechs? I don't think anyone hates them. I'd say that nobody really cares a great deal about them.

Why do people keep asking for useless mechs and variants? Because people have lowered their expectations. Drastically.

Why not the Ost mechs? No reason in particular, except that most people don't really feel too strongly about them. And probably because, to my knowledge, they didn't feature in older Mechwarrior / MechCommander games, so fewer people know about them.

Why not Axman and melee mechs? A lot of people want them, myself included. A lot of people are worried they will break the game due to warping and glitching. A lot of people have no nostalgia about robots with axes and swords, so they feel it's cheesy. And a lot of people just don't care.

What about quadrapeds? Again, people have lowered their expectations. Realistically, this would probably cost PGI a lot more than it would be worth. Bad business decision.

What about Land Air Mechs? Again, they're a part of Battletech that most MWO players don't know about, and to include them in the game would be immensely expensive, not to mention that it would potentially break the game. To have them in a Mechwarrior game, they would need to be a part of the game from the start. They would have a huge impact on gameplay, on map design, etc. It's like flying mounts in World of Warcraft, you can't just have them everywhere. It would break the game.

Of all these things, I'd say mechs with melee are the least unrealistic, but I'd say there's a less than 10% chance that we will ever see them in MWO. PGI hasn't even started sorting out collision damage yet, and we're still warping through each other.

Destructicus, on 23 March 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

You need to read OP's forum profile description. He seems unlikely to engage in any jovial exchange of memes.

[Queen of England]

The Ostsol could be interesting. A 60-ton IS heavy with 6E (before inflation) and a 300STD engine would give the IS their fastest energy boat heavy. Assuming a 360 engine cap, you'd get to 97.2 kph (before Speed Tweak). It also has a barrel-shaped torso, which could make it fairly small with volumetric scaling. Unfortunately, it can't take full advantage of its all-torso-mounted weapons because it has spindly arms that would be useless for shielding.

The Ostroc doesn't really strike me (its pretty much an Ostsol that loses 2E to gain 1M), the Ostwar is extinct at this point in the timeline, and the Ostscout is useless.

On the artwork, I'd really prefer models based on the original artwork from the TROs rather than the later reseen artwork. The originals were at least distinctively hideous, the replacement artwork is generically hideous.

Edited by Queen of England, 25 March 2016 - 02:25 PM.

[Cabusha]

I love the Ostol. It's my favorite 3025 era 60 tonner. 5/8 is solid for mobility, and 2*LL, 4*ML is pretty hard to beat at that tech level on Tabletop. Only issue as the lightly armored arms that loved to pop off.

[FLG 01]

Queen of England, on 25 March 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

The Ostroc doesn't really strike me (its pretty much an Ostsol that loses 2E to gain 1M), the Ostwar is extinct at this point in the timeline, and the Ostscout is useless.

I agree with your assessment of the Ostsol, and I know that boating lasers is more useful in MWO than additional missiles - although I have to say that it very much depends on the variant we are talking about (the OSR-2Cb e.g. has two missile hardpoints, other have none). The Ostroc has JJ in some variants, the Ostsol hasn't iirc.
Anyway, I love both and I would happily pilot both.

Another advantage of the Ost-series is that PGI can easily make up new variants, because it is known that a lot of modified Ost-Mechs were used - including the strange one with the SRM4-launchers instead of the hands...


And yeah, too bad the Ostscout is useless. I really like the new redesign:

[Cabusha]

The biggest reason for the lack of the Ostol/Ostroc is, 1-lack of nostalgia, and 2-we already have the QuickDraw at 60 tons that can do pretty much the exact same thing, but with JJs.

I still like the Ostol/Ostroc better though. :-)

[Juodas Varnas]

As cool as it would be to have this mech (i too, really like this new redesign of it by Catalyst) i think it'd be too gimped by PGI's hardpoint system (and their decision concerning hardpoint inflation)

[VirtualSmitty]

The Ost series would be cool. I like the redesigns and I actually really liked the Ostwar that was introduced a few years ago.