19 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

In Lore Clans had no mercs at all in fact they disdained them, so i think, that there should be only loyalist options for clans you can still get out if you really want to ,but you have to be loyalist for clans, this could potetnally shift some of the competitive groups over to the innersphere and maybe even out the faction map.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 March 2016 - 04:30 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Agreed. From a Lore stand point, the idea of the Clans using Mercs is an abomination. It would simply not happen.

However, there is a precedent for One Clan using warriors from another Clan to supplement its strength. One such example is when Gamma Galaxy of Clan Hell's Horses was contracted to Clan Wolf for the renewed invasion in 3059 through an agreement brokered between Wolf Khan Vlad Ward and Hell's Horses Khan Malavai Fletcher.

There are other instances of cooperation between allied clans.

A possible solution would be to allow Clans to contract together for CW/FP and allow Mercs/IS contracts.

Other than that they should just throw out Clan vs IS completely and allow mixed tech in all drop decks to be used by any faction that wishes to use it. This could also involve an advancing of the time line into the 3060 era when pure tech had become a thing of the past because everyone had captured or bought tech off of everyone else. One positive side benefit of this would be that it would end the IS vs Clan OP crying in CW.

But no, Clans do not hire Mercs to do their fighting for them.

Edited by Rampage, 25 March 2016 - 06:54 PM.

[Exilyth]

I think it's more of a handwaving in the name of playability: "You're a mercenary for that faction" does have the advantage of not having to explain the concept of bondsmanship to new players.

[VinJade]

@Exilyth
that's also true, but then even if they did try to explain to them the things about Bondswo/men I really doubt they would actually read it or much less care as many just play because it is about big stompy robots that shoot lasers and stuff so lore really wouldn't matter.

back to the topic at hand,
We have WIE where the khan's father is the merc unit's commander and when the father no longer can command the unit the khan will inherit the unit as well, iirc(been awhile since I paid any attention to that line, lol).

There is the Clan backed merc unit also known as wolf's dragoons so that...

however with that said just because you don't see them doesn't me they aren't there.
Herb as well as Loren Coleman from before the first BT official forums went down said that there are merc/pirate clan units sometimes backed by the khans of those clans but used of free borns and even though they are backed there will be no official acknowledgment of them.

so yeah there are some out there.

just in case some don't know who Herb or Coleman are they are writers for the BT game, both the novels & the rules of the actual game.

Edited by VinJade, 25 March 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

There were Merc/Pirate HUNTING solhama units made up of freeborn and aged Trueborn Mechwarriors but I have never heard of a Merc unit hired by a Clan. WIE does not really count as Clan because there is Clan Wolf which is Clan but even then I never read anything where WIE hired a Merc unit. Wolf Dragoons although they were originally clanners gave up the Clan way and became Mercs who served the IS Houses.

I know who Herb and Coleman are along with most of the other BT authors. I have read 44 of the novels and own 12 source books but I can honestly say that I have never read anything about a Clan hiring a Merc unit to fight for it.

Maybe a true BT nerd can point me to a specific instance of it happening?

[VinJade]

Herb and Coleman had said there was in the past, I just don't remember the full conversation as it was years ago.
as to the wie not being seen as a true clan, no argument there, but unfortunately they are seen as an exiled clan none the less.

though there was no way to refute the WDs as a clan backed merc unit that did actually have access to clan tech

[KursedVixen]

The Wolfs dragoons were a bunch of spies sent to the innersphere to gather information posing as mercenaries, they were clanned backed yes but not Clan hired mercs. The dragoon compromise that created the unit was a Warden idea to stall the invasion, though things turned around and the Dragoon's essentially defied their orders they were still not hired by the Clans.

And as you said Wolf-in-Exile is not considered an actual clan.

So whiel there are Clan merc units their still Not hired by the Clans. which means in lore no Merc would Ever get a contract with the clans. which further pushes my point in saying that you should likely not be allowed to get a 7or whatever day contract with the clans.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 March 2016 - 08:58 PM.

[VinJade]

The Dragoons was clan & 'spies'(wasn't that a dishonorable action for clan warriors as well?) however they was still backed by the Clans and they was charged to work within the IS thus in the end they was acting as mercs for the Clans.

[KursedVixen]

VinJade, on 25 March 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

The Dragoons was clan & 'spies'(wasn't that a dishonorable action for clan warriors as well?) however they was still backed by the Clans and they was charged to work within the IS thus in the end they was acting as mercs for the Clans.

THe dragoons were for the most part Freeborns. which at the time were looked down on considered low in society so.

And also What better way to 'blend' in with the Innersphere than to do something the clanners themselves despise?

The Clans would NEVER had become mercs, so by doing such the Dragoon's likely threw off any clues to their clan origins, until they told everyone

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 March 2016 - 09:17 PM.

[VinJade]

true they was mostly freeborn however they had some well known trueborns among their ranks, Natasha was as true born as they came more so seeing as she was of the Kerensky bloodline yet she became part of a clan backed merc unit.

[KursedVixen]

And yet did the Clans Hire Any Merc Ever? this isn't about if clanners can be mercs this is about Do clans hire mercs.

So i say again.

Clans factions should not have contract times as to date there are no other clan units operating, So Clans should be loyalist only, and with this change comes a fair warning that you contract with any clan will be canceed within 30 days with no penalties.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 March 2016 - 09:54 PM.

[Catnium]

Exilyth, on 25 March 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

I think it's more of a handwaving in the name of playability: "You're a mercenary for that faction" does have the advantage of not having to explain the concept of bondsmanship to new players.

new players ? like me ? who skip lore and just take the game for what it is ....
I'm sorry but i find it somewhat insulting to say its to hard for new players to understand.

its my experience that lore while not at 1st appreciated by most newbs eventually becomes part of why people continue to play the game long after they stopped being noobs

so in short the more lore the better imo

Edited by Catnium, 25 March 2016 - 11:27 PM.

[VinJade]

@Vixen
I think the best way to settle this is for you to go ask on ask the writers sub forum of the official BT forums to give you a concrete answer one way or another and make sure to post a link to their answer.

Until then pgi can do what they have been doing.

but I do ponder would it even matter one way or another to them as pgi ignores 90%+ of the lore as it is and only throws in any form of lore if it helps them sell a mech or two.

speaking of which does anyone know if the 'lore' fluff piece for the p-hawk was done by one of the official writers or is it just some fan made fluff done by pgi(aka not canon)?

@Cat
really?
I must admit it is nice to hear that some normal mwo players actually do care about the BT lore.

Edited by VinJade, 26 March 2016 - 12:35 AM.

[happy mech]

it is just a question of how you can implement this in the game

obviously the easiest system to balance would be to make it the same for all factions

so the question is not yes or no, but how?

[Cyrilis]

true for the Lore argument, but that will clan player piss off and the population ib FE will decrease further. thus:
No!

[Kinski Orlawisch]

The Wolf Dragoons had been send to the IS with a secret mission to prepare them for the upcomming war.
The official mission was to gain informations.

They had been part of Clan Wolf. Check acc to this Natascha Kerensky.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wolf's_Dragoons

http://www.sarna.net...atasha_Kerensky

Edited by Kinski Orlawisch, 01 August 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

While i'm all in favour of there being no clan Merc's there would have to be a way to compensate some what for having to stay 'loyalist'

[EvilCow]

Allowing mercs for Clans has been the 8th dumbest decision in this game.

[Freeman 52]

No Clan mercs if you ask me. BUT: I know plenty of people in units want to be able to play FP with both IS and Clan mechs every once in a while. Perhaps this is a legacy of the mechbay farming days. But honestly I don't see any change with active units being the most vocal community within FP.

[Requiemking]

I would support this suggestion, except it would absolutely ruin the Clan's chances of any success. As I would hope the FP map shows, the current game balance heavily favours IS. The only reason Jade Falcon is enjoying any success at the moment is because they have the large units backing them. Take that away, and suddenly JF is completely destroyed. Until something changes that allows both Clans and IS to have equal chances of success, this sort of thing cannot happen.