12 replies to this topic

[Macster16]

Now that we've had some time to experience the new Domination gamemode, it has become evident to me that, on a few maps, the mode is imbalanced due to the terrain and location of the green zone on these certain maps. The issue we see is a gamemode being implemented into maps that are not very compatible with the Domination gamemode. Now, onto the maps themselves:

Alpine Peaks
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...nepeaks&m=relic
Here we have one team spawn on the west and the other on the east. The eastern team is at a disadvantage as, to approach the green zone in H9, they are mostly funneled down the H9 slope of the central mountain which is completely barren of cover and totally open. The other avenue is the G9 passage which is not much better as it's totally exposed to the F8 mountain which the western team has easy access to. As for the zone itself, the western team can take up positions in the high grounds on the H7 hill and in G7 where there is the small refinery building which have excellent oversight over the green zone itself while the eastern team has basically nothing.

Solution - move the green zone to I7 where Theta in conquest is so both teams will have a much better balance of high grounds and oversight over the green zone itself.

Forest Colony
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...tcolony&m=relic
Again, we have a western and eastern team with the eastern team at a disadvantage. The only area where the eastern team can safely get a mech into the green zone is on a slither of it which hangs over the H9 wall along the river. This causes the eastern team to bunch up behind said wall next to the archway where the western team can focus their attention and FF anyone that tries to move out. The archway itself and the G8 mound are outside of the green zone which means that although these passages are often viable push points for the eastern team in other gamemodes, in Domination it does not present itself as much of an option as it does not lead to an advantageous area in or around the green zone for the eastern team. Meanwhile, the western team has access to plenty of cover around the western edge of H8, not to mention easy access to the G8 mound and upper forest which both perfectly overlook the green zone and offer great firing lines down the H line to pin anyone down who tries to move into the green zone or push along the coastline.

Solution - move the green zone to the upper forest in G8 where the eastern team can approach through the G9 canyon, the F10 upper coastline and the H9 archway, giving them a number of viable passageways to the green zone instead of into one concentrated chokepoint.

Viridian Bog
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ceswamp&m=relic
For Viridian, we see the balance shift the other way where the eastern team has the advantage over the western team this time. Firstly, the green zone in C4 being wedged between the two central mounds and the access points for these mounds both being on the eastern side which means these mounds are almost completely barred off to the western team while the eastern team gets free reign. Secondly, as you can see on the map the green zone sits towards the eastern side of the C4 passage which makes it wide open for the eastern team to take up great positions with good cover within the green zone itself easily while the western team are forced through the narrow lower passage in C4 all the while having no ground access to the mounds themselves thanks to the access points being on their eastern sides.

Solution - this one is tricky due to the two mounds which makes it hard to choose a balanced location without moving the green zone to a point where they're almost touching the western spawn points. Best I can think of is on top the mound itself, but on the southern tip in D4. This way, the western team can get mechs into the green zone safely around the base of the D4 mound as well as having cover in D3 to overlook. Yes the Eastern team will have better access to the central mound, but atleast the western team will have options available instead of being funneled into one lower passageway.

EDIT: For some reason, I can't post if I try to insert the map images into the posts themselves (get an error). I suppose they're too large so I've just got to make do with posting links.

Edited by Macster16, 27 March 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

I disagree with your choices for both Alpine and Forest Colony, because you've picked coordinates where most of the fighting takes place in other game modes anyway. It's like Domination on Terra Therma or River City. Placing the objective where people normally gravitate anyway adds zero variation to gameplay. And presumably, the whole point of having a 4th game mode is variation and giving players a new experience.

On Forest Colony, I'd much rather see the objective in H11/H12 , or F8. On Alpine, I'd much rather see the objective in K8 or even F8, just for the sake of having matches take place in areas of the map where you don't see much activity in other game modes.

I admit that it's difficult on many maps though, since PGI has gone out of their way to design maps to force action in very specific, limited areas of the map.

[Macster16]

I'm suggesting points that are around the centre of the maps and use the current spawn locations. Your H10/11 on FC suggestion would put the green zone right where the eastern team spawns which would be....problematic without changing the spawn locations completely. Likewise, your Alpine suggestions would also have the same issues. F8 on FC is pretty much what I was getting at by placing it in the upper forest, I may have just gotten it slightly off on the grid.

As much as I'd love variety in all maps, the domination gamemode forces a concentration point by design and said concentration point should be equally accessible to both teams and equal distance from both team spawn locations which means it kind of has to be around a central location of each map.

Edited by Macster16, 27 March 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[man du]

You have missed the most obvious one: River City.

One whole side of the circle is in favor of the Citadel and the other team, in order to stop count downs/secure the count down, must do what you generally never do on that map: rush the water. With a nicely set up Citadel side team, the water side team has the esteemed pleasure of getting mowed down for having no cover while trying to adhere to Domination's rules. All this to say that Domination games on River City tend to be very lopsided consistently.

Perhaps if they moved the circle inland a little, say, in the middle of E5, E6, F5, F6, and tweak the placement just right and adjust the spawn points accordingly, it could allow for some more engaging cover and might make for less lopsided games.

[Coolant]

I agree the location of the Hill is suspect on many maps. Some they are great and really fun, others I tend to vote against Domination because they aren't.

[Ultimax]

Tristan Winter, on 27 March 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

I disagree with your choices for both Alpine ...

Most of the fighting never happens out in the open in H8/H9 on Alpine unless your team is full of the absolute worst kind of terribads.


The general vicinity might be the same, but the actual fight never happens that way if both teams are at least half-way competent and not full of potay-tards.


Domination on Alpine is a lopsided mess in favor of west, and Skirmish on Alpine is a lopsided mess biased in favor of east.


They took this map, they took the uninformed feedback from these forums and Alpine skirmish is unarguably worse because of it.

Edited by Ultimax, 27 March 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[L A V A]

The best way to handle domination would be to periodically move the green zone on all the maps, but especially on the larger maps which have so much territory that folks normally don't play on.

In general, I really like domination. In fact I think it is now my favorite game mode.

I believe it is worth more development time and hopefully we will see more variation in the future.

[Roughneck Cobra]

Domination needs Rethinking with their current Maps.

Easier just state that.

[Gyrok]

I have a suggestion regarding Alpine domination, skirmish, assault, and conquest in feature suggestions.

[CreativeAnarchy]

Some of the current domination places do give too much advantage to some spawns. This really needs to be looked at.

Really though, I'd like to fight over different areas so that when you play a map, it could be in a different spot the next time you play domination on that map. It would be nice if Polar Highlands didn't need to be fought in the middle in domination, there are plenty of other places we could be fighting in that map so the capture spot should have a variety of places to appear.

[Tatula]

Adjustments definitely needed. We'll have to wait and see what PGI comes up with.

[Zordicron]

They missed an opportunity to shake up the mode on certain maps.

Envision this: spawns on opposing sides, but not opposite sides of the map. For instance, both teams spawn in/near the northern part of alpine, but one closer to the east, one closer to the west.

Now, the capture circle is far to the south(not all the way, but most of the way) but equidistance from east/west, basically dead center south.

Here we would have two teams, that would both need to travel south. Shortest distance for them to travel would put them in a sort of "V" line, where they would start out far apart but get ever closer as they approached the capture circle.

Both teams would then have a wide swath of the map on east and west avaialble for smaller mechs to make a run at the circle from around the back in cover, while the two teams could take shots at each other before they get to the circle, with the count down timer basically forcing them to stay mobile and change engagment range. Both teams could use the cover as they see fit for both movement, and trading shots against the enemy. Tactically, each team would need to decide how fast, or strung out as a result, they would move towards the circle. Making the circle a significant distance for both teams would also allow for some smaller scale fast mech vs fast mech fights in the circle to happen before the rest of the team got there.

Essentially, it would allow something besides rush to circle and attempt to deathball the enemy like we have now. IMO, they missed an opportunity with this mode to break up the death squads through the use of a capture timer.

[Macster16]

man du, on 27 March 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

You have missed the most obvious one: River City.

One whole side of the circle is in favor of the Citadel and the other team, in order to stop count downs/secure the count down, must do what you generally never do on that map: rush the water. With a nicely set up Citadel side team, the water side team has the esteemed pleasure of getting mowed down for having no cover while trying to adhere to Domination's rules. All this to say that Domination games on River City tend to be very lopsided consistently.

Perhaps if they moved the circle inland a little, say, in the middle of E5, E6, F5, F6, and tweak the placement just right and adjust the spawn points accordingly, it could allow for some more engaging cover and might make for less lopsided games.

You're probably right, RC does indeed look to be fairly imbalanced. I didn't include it because I've only had one Domination game on RC so far and not enough games to get more of a feel for things. Looking at the map, the E5 water area where theta in Conquest is would probably be better as both teams have cover within the green zone as well as high grounds overlooking.

As for suggestions to have a dynamic green zone that moves around the map - as much as I'd appreciate it forcing the focus of matches around different areas of the maps, I can't say I'm for RNG objectives that could easily go in favour of one team, giving them an advantage because the green zone happens to spawn in a more favourable location for them. Both teams should always have equal opportunity to achieve the objective which means accessibility and distance for both teams to the green zone needs to stay equal.

Zordicron - not a bad suggestion and would be a more fresh approach to what is pretty much samey-samey to what we've been playing for eons now. Issue is PGI's reluctance to change spawn locations which, obviously, is what would be required. Just look at the B4 Skirmish spawn in Frozen city - appalling spawn area, especially for assaults who always get bum-rushed because the spawn is too close to the enemy team and PGI have yet still to change it even though it's one of the oldest maps and it's very obviously flawed.