86 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Nah, 6ER LL GHR, I meant 54 damage.

You are better off Black Knight for the better hitboxes and quirks, because you aren't really utilizing high mounts at that point (with only 2).

[ninthstreet]

Do you guys not realize that Russ is going to nerf high alphas with the upcoming heat changes? All this talk about who can do the highest alpha is just pissing in the wind. Look at the mechs hardpoint height, number of hardpoints ,and hitboxes. You guys stroking yourselves over the Blackknight are just giving bad advice. You should know better after being through several quirkenings.

[Karl Marlow]

MischiefSC, on 28 March 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

Another Whammy First vote!

What do you run on it? What does the 6D do for you that performs better than the others?

I can't remember exactly what I have on it. I can't check right now. It still has PPCs in the arms. MPL in the chest and the biggest XL engine it would let me put in it. it feels quick and the arms are meaty about it to protect the ST if need be.

I could probably set up the 6R to do the same thing but I have a standard engine build in it and it just doesn't preform like I want. The missile variant I have no real idea on what to do with. Especially since I have Archers now.

[Y E O N N E]

1. Grasshopper - excellent mobility, excellent durability, solid quirks, decent profile.
2. Warhammer - good mobility, good durability, solid quirks, good sustain, hits like an 18-wheeler.
3. Black Knight - good speed, hits like an 18-wheeler, only moderate sustain, good durability.
4. Marauder - good durability, good mobility, under-powered weapon quirks, not enough hard-points, extremely vulnerable to flank.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

You are better off Black Knight for the better hitboxes and quirks, because you aren't really utilizing high mounts at that point (with only 2).

I'm not sure about that, something about the Grasshoppers mounts I like more, its low mounts don't feel as low. And JJs help for positioning. And Black Knights don't have -15% heat gen like the GHopper does.

[Macster16]

From a pure-meta perspective it would appear to be:

1) BLK
2) GHP
3) WHM
4) MDA

From a personal likability POV though it would go GHP and WHM at top followed by BLK which I find pretty boring to play even though it's super strong at the moment. MDA doesn't interest me at all - non-assaults that are forced into STD builds which lack speed and firepower turn me off.

Edited by Macster16, 28 March 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

I'm not sure about that, something about the Grasshoppers mounts I like more, its low mounts don't feel as low. And JJs help for positioning. And Black Knights don't have -15% heat gen like the GHopper does.

What they lack for 5% heat gen, they make up for in survivability and virtue of being heavier (meaning more DHS/speed). If you go 7-L you also get duration quirks (15%) which really help with ERLL duration. The hopper has a shorter torso (and longer legs) which may be why it seems better (because it is, if ever so slightly).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 March 2016 - 08:50 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Id go

Warhammer (6D with 3xLPL+5xML or Black Widow with 4xAC5)
Grasshopper (5P with 3xLPL + 3xML)
Black Knight (® variant with 3xLPL+3xMPL)
Marauder (But i havent gone back to the MADs since they fixed the agility quirks. i didnt like them initially)

[kapusta11]

Depends on where you want to use them.

For pub queue stomping:
1. Black Knight. Either BL-6-KNT with XL325, 3x LPL and 5x MPL or BL-7-KNT-L with XL350, 3x LPL and 5x ML. The funny part is that you don't need quirks for pug stomping, only high alpha.
2. Grasshopper 5H with XL300/325, 3xLPL and 4x MPL/ML
3. Laser vomit Bounty Hunter (no experience piloting one)
4. Laser vomit Warhammer 6D (same as above)

In group queue against decent teams:
1. Black Knight with less lasers (3xLPL + 2-3 ML) and even then only because of quirks: Battlemaster armor, 10% heat gen, 10% range and either faster accel/decel rate or 15% less burn duration. Pretty poor choice for long range engagements because of low slung hardpoints though, hence..
2. Grasshopper
3. Warhammer, same as above - somewhat high mounted hardpoints only with access to ballistics. Actually, it might end up being better than Grasshopper in some cases, can't tell, need to pilot one first.
4. Marauder, it can take a lot of beating, might come in handy in pushes.

I'm not an expert, just my opinion based on my experience.

Edited by kapusta11, 29 March 2016 - 04:50 AM.

[DovisKhan]

1. MAD 3R < Can pound any non assault into oblivion at close range 1 v 1 and can be a bullet sponge if you're leading the advance.

2. Whammy < cause ballistics are better than lasers up close and you're up close if you don't lack aggression

3. Black Knight

28. Grashopper, when I see one I know it's just chow for my Marauder or King Crab, flimsy tall slenderman prancing around, love how the head looks though, that's the only reason to buy this mech

[Gyrok]

MischiefSC, on 28 March 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

Another Whammy First vote!

What do you run on it? What does the 6D do for you that performs better than the others?

It has the perfect storm of accel/decel, heat gen, and range quirks. Essentially, if you cherry picked from the BLK-6 and BLK-7-L, you would get the 6D whammy.

[Ultimax]

MischiefSC, on 28 March 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

You know I ran into that on Panthers. I was running the 10K with 2 LPLs in CW and doing pretty good in it. Looking over the quirks though I saw the 8Z seemed to have some better quirks, just not the reduced heat generation and I thought 'Well it runs pretty cool anyway, seems like a good trade'.

Oh hell no. It was ****.

A 15% heat gen reduction is make or break. Better than a little more range or faster cooldown. A 10% cooldown reduction on LPLs (or most lasers) is barely noticeable. It'll play out in a DPS brawl but for poking, not really. 15% heat? Holy ****. For an energy boat that's make or break.

Yeah it's pretty amazing to me that -10% or -15% can basically make or break an IS energy mech.

The GRH-5P should be superior to the GRH-5H based on hard point locations and fully ablative arms, in reality though the 5H wins due to that heat quirk and partially because PGI nerfed all range quirks without giving other quirks to compensate.


The 5P was hotter, but at least it had a range and mount advantage.

Now however there is almost no real reason to use the 5P over the 5H.

Edited by Ultimax, 29 March 2016 - 08:48 AM.

[TercieI]

Ultimax, on 29 March 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

Yeah it's pretty amazing to me that -10% or -15% can basically make or break an IS energy mech.

The GRH-5P should be superior to the GRH-5H based on hard point locations and fully ablative arms, in reality thought the 5H wins due to that heat quirk and partially because PGI nerfed all range quirks without giving other quirks to compensate.


The 5P was hotter, but at least it had a range and mount advantage.

Now however there is almost no real reason to use the 5P over the 5H.

...and the others are not even in the conversation because they only have one actual high mount. Especially on a one-note chassis like the GHR (or BL-KNT), the decisive factors are that small. Even more so now that we have 300 or so variants.

[Lugh]

Hit the Deck, on 27 March 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

What's your "hot" GHR build? The old 2LPL+5ML build definitely doesn't run hot.

None of the IS builds run hot.

ALL of the Clan builds run hot.

If you have an IS build that's 'running hot' chances are you built it wrong.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TercieI, on 29 March 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

...and the others are not even in the conversation because they only have one actual high mount.

The 5N could be useful if it actually had the 5H's heat gen quirk, since you could run a poor man's BK. The problem major problem with the other Hoppers is that they lack the perfect storm of quirks (heat gen/range/duration or heat gen/range/mobility/structure quirks). If the appropriate lasers just got balanced better we wouldn't need them, but PGI seems very resistant to do this.

LPL duration nerf, ML/MPL/SL/SPL heat reduction, very slight range buff (ML slight duration buff), LL/ERLL heat reduction (with slight LL range buff)

Lugh, on 29 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

If you have an IS build that's 'running hot' chances are you are doing it right.

FTFY

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[Ultimax]

TercieI, on 29 March 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

...and the others are not even in the conversation because they only have one actual high mount. Especially on a one-note chassis like the GHR (or BL-KNT), the decisive factors are that small. Even more so now that we have 300 or so variants.

PGI could have alleviated it better, the GRH-5J for example - it's quirks don't really create a greater sum of parts.



As a mech with all low mounts, it should get some solid quirks for armor/survivability.

PGI gave it some, but put them all in locations that don't really alleviate the issue - Arms & Legs (are your legs really going to get focused from 800m?).

Those quirks need to be on the torsos - because the mech needs to expose itself for ER beam durations.

Next, while CD quirks are nice I'd much rather have -burn duration for ERs. -10% burn duration for energy + -10% burn duration for ERs, total -20% burn duration (1s for ER down from 1.25s).

Quirks like that would make the mech servicable, it would give it a role. Would it be top tier? Probably not, but it would be better off than it is now.


Instead we get generic quirks at mild levels, because forum crybabies can't handle anything more than that.

[Ultimax]

Lugh, on 29 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

None of the IS builds run hot.

ALL of the Clan builds run hot.

If you have an IS build that's 'running hot' chances are you built it wrong.

Please don't start drawing crayons on the walls here, adults are having a proper conversation.

IS laser builds are not only hot, the strongest ones also about 400m optimal range to boot.

Edited by Ultimax, 29 March 2016 - 07:35 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lugh, on 29 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

None of the IS builds run hot.

ALL of the Clan builds run hot.

If you have an IS build that's 'running hot' chances are you built it wrong.

IS vomit builds are only slightly cooler than Clan vomit builds, and have slightly less range. Geez you are more sensational than Gyrok is.

I challenge you to run a GHR-5P with a 53-58 damage alpha that does not run hot.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 March 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[TercieI]

Ultimax, on 29 March 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

PGI could have alleviated it better, the GRH-5J for example - it's quirks don't really create a greater sum of parts.



As a mech with all low mounts, it should get some solid quirks for armor/survivability.

PGI gave it some, but put them all in locations that don't really alleviate the issue - Arms &amp; Legs (are your legs really going to get focused from 800m?).

Those quirks need to be on the torsos - because the mech needs to expose itself for ER beam durations.

Next, while CD quirks are nice I'd much rather have -burn duration for ERs. -10% burn duration for energy + -10% burn duration for ERs, total -20% burn duration (1s for ER down from 1.25s).

Quirks like that would make the mech servicable, it would give it a role. Would it be top tier? Probably not, but it would be better off than it is now.


Instead we get generic quirks at mild levels, because forum crybabies can't handle anything more than that.

Yeah, but this is what happens when the people making the game's quirks suck at playing it. And the blanket range nerf with no specific offsets only compounded many issues.

Wheel o Quirks FTL!!!

Lugh, on 29 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

None of the IS builds run hot.

ALL of the Clan builds run hot.

If you have an IS build that's 'running hot' chances are you built it wrong.

RHOD

Edited by TercieI, 29 March 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I did the smurfying for Lugh.

Grasshopper without heatgen quirks and a 53 damage alpha (3 LPL, 4ML, 81kph) @324m

13.55 max dps, 12 seconds to over heat

Ebon Jaguar, 61 damage alpha (2 cLPL, 5 cERMLs, TC1, 87 kph) @~460m

14.38 max dps, 11 seconds to over heat


All other balance aside, IS laser vomit without quirks is no more effective than Clan laser vomit unless you are sub 300m. It only gets cooler on mechs with heat generation quirks, (which the 5P does not have).

So yeah, the "all IS laser vomit is cool" argument holds no water. Ironically, if you drop an cERML and run a 54 damage alpha (still larger than the GHR) and 25 DHS, 14 seconds to overheat. Clan laser vomit running COOLER than IS laser vomit, truly amazing.

And then there was this scourge of the solo queue.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4eee0d085e09a74


It was HOT but my god, it wrecked before they requirked the BKs. As the only BK that was released with a heat gen quirk, it was the only one worth using.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 March 2016 - 08:03 AM.