35 replies to this topic

[ArmandTulsen]

This is getting ridiculous.

All I'm seeing is queues for defend.

Going on the offensive has advantages that defending simply doesn't. For one, queuing with your faction members means the defending team is likely to be a random bag from all factions. This means that the odds are in your favour that they'll be less organized. Another thing is that you can quite easily throw mechs at the generators and destroy the orbital gun a lot easier than you can defend it.

Why the f do so many people insist on playing defend? You're more likely to face a premade queuing for defend, than you are queuing for an attack.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 27 March 2016 - 05:20 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

well I think if many are soloing they are apprehensive as you can potentially go out with intent of attacking and then there is no one there to back you up. this paradigm changes I think when in drop with organized groups.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 27 March 2016 - 05:26 PM.

[Leone]

I beleive your problem is your playing with Davions. May I suggest trying the other side of the Federated Commonwealth?

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 27 March 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

You may be right, the problem seems to be Davion related.

Almost rank 6 to grind out this mech bay. Then onto the next faction (please be aggressive, Dracs).

[Aresye]

Part of what frustrates me about CW.

If you're dropping solo and try to go on the attack, it's near impossible to get a game unless a large group joins up.

Meanwhile, every single solo player is cramming into the defend queues, getting matched up against organized units because (once again) only large groups seem to go on the attack.

Then they come here and complain about unit vs. pug matches.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

I will agree that CW in it's current state is just boring and the mass players going on the defend doesn't help matters either

[Tarogato]

It's simple, really: Pugs don't know how to open and push into gates. So they all defend.

[multisoul]

the number of defenders and attackers is usually equal

[xX PUG Xx]

Tarogato, on 27 March 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

It's simple, really: Pugs don't know how to open and push into gates. So they all defend.

I agree, kinda, this is one PUG that knows how to do those things

I will point out that having a premade/unit group attacking does not guarantee anything, I've had the pleasure of being the only player to attempt to open the gates on Boreal while on one occasion a 5 man "defended" the crashed dropship. While on another I've had a 6 man "snipe" from the ramps for 20+ minutes without touching the gate gens.

Funnily enough both matches were a loss and unfortunately are not isolated examples.

@ the OP.

I completely agree with your point of view, I have even had a "discussion" with a few players in Faction chat trying to explain why attacking makes more sense. I would say that going to the Davion TS and grouping up with folk there will help you, there is generally plenty of players around and no requirement to be part of a unit.

So the cure for the problem of solo's never attacking is to group up...... hmmm, ok that sounds silly but it's true

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 28 March 2016 - 01:37 AM.

[L A V A]

Tarogato, on 27 March 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

It's simple, really: Pugs don't know how to open and push into gates. So they all defend.

It's not quite THAT simple.

From what I am seeing most of the new players seem to like CW. Playing CW can get them lots of free stuff which they need, like mech bays. It is a good place to grind mechs since they have so few of them.

Given that motivation and the higher probability that a PUG on PUG match will favor the defender... now we see why the new folks like defending in CW.

[z3a1ot]

It could be related to "call to arms" pop-up. When one team attacks (usually large premade) many people respond to that call to arms and defend queue gets populated usually beyond what is needed to defend. Happened to me plenty of times.

[Danjo San]

ArmandTulsen, on 27 March 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

This is getting ridiculous.

All I'm seeing is queues for defend.

Going on the offensive has advantages that defending simply doesn't. For one, queuing with your faction members means the defending team is likely to be a random bag from all factions. This means that the odds are in your favour that they'll be less organized. Another thing is that you can quite easily throw mechs at the generators and destroy the orbital gun a lot easier than you can defend it.

Why the f do so many people insist on playing defend? You're more likely to face a premade queuing for defend, than you are queuing for an attack.

The Problem currently is that the major Units of Liao and Davion are on tour for mechbays before Phase 3 goes live. Trust me I'd much rather battle organized IS Groups rather than defending random Planets that mean nothing to House Liao. The loyal population is running around the galaxy grinding Mechbays. People are not insisting on playing defend. There is just simply nobody to fight... If you get enough Davions to attack Liao, the remains of us will be happy to defend...

[DevlinCognito]

This problem would be greatly helped, if not solved with a better UI. I think it is ridiculous that getting into a CW lobby locks you out of everything. Imagine the typical solo player interested in getting into CW. Find a planet to Attack, get into a lobby and... just has to sit there, staring at a screen doing nothing. Maybe a few people pop in, maybe even a three man team joins.. all the while just sat twiddling thumbs, maybe spamming Faction chat. You have no idea how many Defenders if any are joined, you can't do anything but stare at that sodding screen and pray people are on. After 15-20 minutes one of the few players in the lobby leaves, this causes an exodus and suddenly you are alone. Thoroughly irritated the player jumps out, sees a call to arms pop up for a defense planet but it gets him a game.

For the love of all that is holy, we need to be able to get in a lobby while still being able to tool around in the Mechlab, access the planetary map, get in the store and chat to people still. If people were still able to do things you would see more people waiting on attack queues.

The best Factions I've seen so far for integrating their pugs are Davion and FRR, but you need to be proactive in using the tools available. Go to the Faction TeamSpeak hub, politely ask folks if they would like to team up.

[MaxFool]

You know, it's quite common that when you play a game and people do stuff you don't understand, you start asking questions "why did he do that, I don't understand, is it not stupid, what's going on?" I have developed this theory that one of the following answers always explains it, you just need to figure out which one is the case (and this can be applied to life in general, not just games):

1) He did that because he is stupid.

2) You don't understand because you are stupid.

3) Both 1 and 2.

In case of MWO unfortunately you can also add in 4) PGI is stupid.

This is my unified theory of stupidity, explaining all things that puzzle you in human behavior.

[Tarl Cabot]

One of the major issues that that those in the southern Houses can not launch attacks against Clans, generally where most of the battles are happening, unless a Clan has ventured far enough south to knock boots. Otherwise a Davion/Marik/Liao would need to quit their faction and join IS faction w/Clan borders.

PGI basically still sees all players as mercs. The game is currently not coded for a CCAF to CO-OP with another faction, in-game, without dropping the limpy sword badge.

If PGI did make it happen, would it be good for the game? At first some would thing that the Clans would be overran by more units. But would it not also open up the game for the pugs, to provide more opportunities for drops, just like it currently does for IS pugs?

[Jman5]

Because base defense is easier on pugs than attacking.

You don't need a whole lot of communication and coordinated pushes to pull off a competent defense. Just set up in a good spot and wait for them to come to you. You have turrets fighting for you which helps some. You also don't have to split your time between shooting base structures and mechs.

It's also harder to jump-start your faction into attacking if you're by yourself. Who wants to sit in a 1/0 queue for 20 minutes hoping 23 more people will show up? Premades have to do that and most of the factions just don't have their act together.

[ArmandTulsen]

Danjo San, on 28 March 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

The Problem currently is that the major Units of Liao and Davion are on tour for mechbays before Phase 3 goes live. Trust me I'd much rather battle organized IS Groups rather than defending random Planets that mean nothing to House Liao. The loyal population is running around the galaxy grinding Mechbays. People are not insisting on playing defend. There is just simply nobody to fight... If you get enough Davions to attack Liao, the remains of us will be happy to defend...

Wait, what? Is there something about Phase 3 that will make mech bay farming more difficult or something?

[MischiefSC]

It's not Davion. It's every single faction.

People fill up the defense queue. They won't go into attack.

I've had people in faction chat explain they prefer a ghost drop on defense - it's guaranteed LP/CBills.

You can't get them to shake the idea that hiding is more successful than pushing forward and fighting. They're thinking like QP and the last several years of how MW:O has been played. Most are terribly resistant to the idea of playing as a team for the team win above and beyond their own personal stats. I won't say personal success because playing with and to your team provides a drastically higher success rate but the perception that defense and hiding 'does better' isn't one you'll get most people to shake.

[Duke Einholt]

Ok as far as i can tell most of the large organized Merc units do not defend they only attack- MS openly admitted that in last town hall meeting with the leader of HHOD. This is not a criticism of them if you have a 12 man you can set a attack match into 10 minute count down, if you drop 12 man on defense and no ones attacking your not going to get a match unless there is chevron captured to recapture then you get a ghost drop - yep Ghost drop we all really like that mode argh.

So most organized unit only drop on attack- this send out call to defend which usually unfortunately answered by new players aka pugs-not always but most of the time- again not a criticism just a side effect of how the game is organized - if there lucky new players will at least get a chance to see the effects of an organized team and seek out a units to join.

More needs to be done to get new players to seek out units to learn from and drop with. Ok shameless plug coming next FRR ts hub is good place to go if you are new player their are multiple units open for to new players seeking help in faction warfare SO, RKA both good places to start.

[LordNothing]

i think a lot of pugs view defence as easy mode. they go to defense and expect it to be defense and are instead greeted with a counter attack. problem is a lot of them dont know how to read the planet info, as a result the game really kicks em where it hurts. to add injury to insult, its usually the units that initiate attacks and your chances of getting paired with a 12 man are much higher. so its my view that attack is in fact easy mode.

last couple days have been terrible, plenty of pugs in queues everywhere, plenty of attackers. enough to get a game together but a lot of ghost drops on both sides regardless. its impossible to get them on the same page to focus on one planet. almost none of them want to try attack on the perceived notion that it will be harder.

so between misconceptions, lots of planets, and a horrible lobby/chat system, we end up with 50 pugs sitting in 10 queues getting ghost drops.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 March 2016 - 11:55 PM.