42 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 31 March 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

I have about as much sense of humor as a rock. And frankly this is also a thread literally about UFO's and crazy conspiracy theories. So it is hard to know what people are serious about in here.

and everyone thought he Sun revolved around the earth up until someone was CRAZY enough to disprove it.


How do WE adjust our craft to be on Mars? Moon? Hell the Russians sent stuff to Venus which has a pressure 90x plus that of Earth. Granted they didn't transmit for very long but that isn't an impossible task at all. We send peeps into the oceans with tons more pressure, we also send peeps into space on SPACE WALKS with no atmosphere at all.

If humans as a Type 0 Civilization can do this to some degree why wouldn't a super complex Type 3 or higher Civilization not be capable of it and being far, far better at it? If they can make it past the Van Allen Radiation belt (which i DON'T think humans have been through yet, which means we never went to the moon) and get onto the planet id like to think a few fluctuations in atmospheres from rock to rock would be a cake walk.

[Rogue Jedi]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 31 March 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

You know what I love seeing about all these UFO stories. People describing them or the videos showing the craft. Why is that?

BECAUSE NONE OF THOSE CRAFT WOULD EVEN BE ABLE TO ******* FLY. The laws of aerodynamics on this planet means that those things wouldn't be flying. Also how would the aliens know how to adjust for our gravity and such?

Do I believe in alien life? I am open to it.

Do I believe they have visited us? No

Why? Because every video shown has been doctored with spacecraft that can't possible fly on this planet, have been proven false and doctored, or are so vague and purposefully vague that they are clearly made up.

if you showed a 1950s aircraft designer an f117, f22 or Eurofighter they would have told you those could not possibly stay in the air.

while you are correct that most of the UFOs people show footage of would be incapable of aerodynamic flight as we know it who says they are using aerodynamics?

there are plenty of ways to stay airborne without using aerodynamics, some sort of gravity manipulation, lighter than air, electromagnetic.

I am not saying that any of the UFO photos or film, or eye witness accounts are really extraterrestrial encounters, in fact I doubt any of them are, but just because something is beyond our current understanding of the "laws of physics" does not automatically mean it is impossible or fake.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 March 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Just yesterday I saw something flying over my house in Florida that I could not identify no matter how hard I squinted. Therefore, it was a UFO. I believe!

[MarineTech]

[Squiggy McPew]

Well whether you believe or not really doesn't make much difference to me as what a person believes is entirely up to their mindset. As for me I have an open mind and whilst I'm still certainly on the fence over the entire subject there seems to be a growing segment of the government on every level starting to clamor for disclosure. Why clamor for disclosure from people supposedly in the 'know' already if there isn't anything to disclose?

So marack since you seem to be the resident debunker(which is fine every topic like this needs one for flavor) how about this vid?



Also what about obama's current top adviser and his regret on not being able to break the story since 2002? Again why disclose something if it doesn't exist?



Also marack the aircraft you listed are all capable of flight naturally. Apply power and they fly with nothing more than a man moving stick and rudder. The f22, f117 and eurofighter are all based off unstable unflyable with no amount of power designs that only work because the computers constantly adjust the flight controls and human input on direction has to be interpreted into the correct control adjustments. So yes a 1950's aircraft designer would have told you it was nuts to think these designs could actually fly as they didn't adhere to known airlifting body shapes or control methods. I mean the f117 is basically a diamond shape and is about as flight worthy as a brick without the computers to run it.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 31 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

I believe in Unicorn Wizards and K-Town. Not aliens.

So you believe that out of all the multi trillions of stars contained in the multi trillions of galaxies out there we are the only sentient life or that sentient life is so rare that it might as well not exist? What's the reasoning? Because we haven't found any signs of life using our primitive technology in our own solar system? That's like saying there is no life in the sea because the teaspoonful you examined had none. Now as to can said life find us well there are plenty of solid theories about how to cross the interstellar void and plenty of official programs to realise that technology. So if after basically a hundred years of advancement going from a level of muscle and gear based technology that was fairly stable over millennia to the almost exponential explosion of knowledge both theoretical and applied at our current level what about a race that did that a thousand or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousand or even millions of years ago? What advancements would we humans be able to do in such a time span given we don't kill ourselves off?

Edited by 120mm, 31 March 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[Squiggy McPew]

I feel sorry for you then marack if you think all the questions have been answered and everything is a disguised lie to cover more disguised lies and any attempt to reveal the truth is simply more lies piled on top. :^(

Theories exist to be either proven or disproven and a given theory might be true even if we currently don't have the technology or understanding on how to make the technology to prove them. This doesn't mean they are all hogwash just not proven without a doubt. As an example take yourself with all the knowledge you possess but none of the 'high tech' items you use on a daily basis then jump back a mere 100~200 years and describe them and what life is like. If they don't burn you as a witch then you will at least be branded a nutcase or whacko.

As to the sentience part there is tons of evidence that many water species such as dolphins and whales are not only self aware but highly intelligent however being water living creatures they never had the chance to invent tools or discover the uses of fire and so have been stunted in their growth because they could advance no further due to the restrictions of their environment. Also it's a long held scientific belief that man originated from the sea and so was given that chance to make tools and discover fire and so be able to manipulate his environment to his favor. To believe we are the only sentient life in the universe is self deception at it's worst. :^(

[Squiggy McPew]

Where are you getting this information? It's like you are selectively picking out any possible views that support everything being a lie or random chance and have blinders on to anything that challenges that. Otoh I did just notice this in your avatar:"At the end of the road and wondering if I should go somewhere else or off the cliff". This seems to point to someone so bored and sure that he has seen and understood all that life has to offer that he is contemplating jumping the cliff instead of following the path.

To quote a certain sergeant: "lighten up francis" :^)

Dolphins figuring out vortex rings and how to manipulate them and passing that knowledge onto other dolphins with no human prompting. Just dumb animal luck and random chance?




All life came from the sea marack. We may have evolved from apes but what did apes evolve from going all the way back to the first sea mammal that found it could live on land too? Some mammals never left the sea and continued to evolve but without the fierce competition of the land mammals and access to tools and fire they never passed a certain point of intelligence but they are indeed self aware with emotions and can figure out problems and reason.

Maybe you should go back on the path and realize knowledge is ever evolving and what we were certain of yesterday can be forever changed tomorrow.

Edited by 120mm, 31 March 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[Squiggy McPew]

But marack all you have given are words. At least my words are being backed by actual documentation even if to you everything is a lie and only humans of all the possible species in the universe can be considered sentient especially considering the farthest man has been from the earth is the moon past a few of his robotic henchmen crawling around mars and around the outer planets. I'm not calling you unintelligent or even misinformed but you seem to have a very fixed view of things that don't fit your worldview. Like I said I myself am on the fence about all of this stuff but you seem completely convinced it's all hooey. Well ok that's your opinion but I think you are selling yourself short and missing out on what could be the revelation of a lifetime simply because 'it can't be'. :^(

[Squiggy McPew]

Those are just a bunch of random links you googled up. Most don't even bear on the conversation. There is even a summation from one that states we really have no idea how man came about, indications seem to point to apes but, well, we can't really verify that however we continue to try.

Quote

We don’t know everything about our own species—but we keep learning more! Through studies of fossils, genetics, behavior, and biology of modern humans, we continue to learn more about who we are.

Below are some of the still unanswered questions about ****-sapiens that may be answered with future discoveries:

• Who was our direct evolutionary ancestor? Was it ****-heidelbergensis, like many paleoanthropologists think, or another species?
  
• How much interbreeding occurred between our species and ****-neanderthalensis?
  
• What does the future hold for our species in an evolutionary sense?

As for the rest well again I'm sorry you feel that way and of course live your life how you choose. Just remember you only have one life to live and try to make the best of it.

Edited by 120mm, 31 March 2016 - 09:31 PM.

[Squiggy McPew]

I skimmed through most as they are all about the same on content and the only real organized site is the smithsonian link where my quote came from. The rest look like private blogs and specialized material dumps which by and large are thesis material and not what one would consider actual scientific proof or simply parroting of current theory masked as fact. As to the vids I linked all are considered valid sources for the material they present and all deal with subjects that that the government is currently trying to find a way to disclose without sending people into an existential/cultural/religious crisis. I mean seriously how can you discount obama's advisor talking about disclosing ufo files and that he feels americans are finally able to deal with? Why would he say that? What possible agenda could he be pushing? Do you feel americans would flip out over knowing it's all a farce and swamp gas or that it's actually real?

All I know is that when major presidential candidates are making it an election talking point and that the government is spending tens of millions on a rockstar to produce material youth will easily digest then something is afoot. You feel it's more lies and I feel it's not. We may not agree but so far from the twitter feeds and continued ever increasing hits from google on the subject it's taking off pretty quick.

[Squiggy McPew]

I'll just poke a hole in your logic with this observation. Hillary wants to get elected. Hillary will say anything to get majority votes to be elected and will be avoiding fringe issues(like ufo's) as much as possible. So why appeal to a demographic that loses her the majority votes if they considered her a ufo fanatic over the tiny amount of votes she would pick up by appealing to the mufon crowd? Think she would risk her chance at office over a media blitz of oh look hillarys talking about aliens again folks!(snicker)

Somehow I don't think so. ;^)

[Squiggy McPew]

So the newspaper articles and news reports quoting her as saying that are all lies too? She is on the record as saying it and that makes it a target to be brought up during the general election by many many sides. So again why even go on the record over a subject that would be far more effective at labeling her a loony than federal charges could ever do even if she is not belting it out at every speech? All I'm getting are divide by zero results trying to figure it out and there has already been negative comments from several of the popular political talk personalities over it but her election advisor not only says he has convinced her to continue but to bring it out as a major talking point. Something is rotten in uranus.. ;^)

[Squiggy McPew]

It's called testing the waters. If they had no interest in pushing this agenda then it wouldn't have been brought up to begin with. Again you seem to be ignoring the fact this isn't just hillary or podesta but a broad array of people from all levels of government and civilian sectors all accredited and normally held as trustworthy and not some redneck telling a story about **** probes on the back forty of his farm by dem bug eyed invaders as told by the daily mail. Why this concentrated effort on multiple fronts from private industry to the government to 'get the story out'? Usually it's some random person you never heard of and never hear from again unless you dig around coming out of the woodwork with a story or low budget movie but tens of millions to a popular rockstar to make a series of books and documentaries and movies all about the ufo subject with all the information provided from the source which is the government files? Dunno what to say if that doesn't twitch your whiskers to find out if its real or another disinformation plot. ;^p

Edited by 120mm, 31 March 2016 - 11:09 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 31 March 2016 - 11:22 PM, said:

Either way I am leaving the conversation because we are just going in circles now.

Wapft? Mf Pfopfcorn is ftill not pfinifhed

[Rogue Jedi]

120mm, on 31 March 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

All life came from the sea marack. We may have evolved from apes but what did apes evolve from going all the way back to the first sea mammal that found it could live on land too? Some mammals never left the sea and continued to evolve but without the fierce competition of the land mammals and access to tools and fire they never passed a certain point of intelligence but they are indeed self aware with emotions and can figure out problems and reason.

sorry but mammals evolved on land then some went to living in the sea, presumably because of something along the lines of more availability of food.

Are Dolphins sentient?
That all comes down to how precisely you describe sentience, according to the original use Dolphins, Cats, Dogs and many other animals were considered sentient, it is just that that the use of the word has become confused, unfortunately mostly due to incorrect use in science fiction.

[Squiggy McPew]

Rogue Jedi, on 01 April 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

sorry but mammals evolved on land then some went to living in the sea, presumably because of something along the lines of more availability of food.

Are Dolphins sentient?
That all comes down to how precisely you describe sentience, according to the original use Dolphins, Cats, Dogs and many other animals were considered sentient, it is just that that the use of the word has become confused, unfortunately mostly due to incorrect use in science fiction.

All life came from the sea. Some mammals may have returned to the sea and then came back out but either way the key to evolving is tool use and eventually fire. As to why humans made the leap and other animals haven't isn't understood even though more and more research is showing that once you show animals tool use brain activity goes way up and they start to change behaviour.

Another link but as it's from berkeley hopefully it will pass muster. ;^p

http://evolution.ber.../origsoflife_03

[Rushin Roulette]

Rogue Jedi, on 01 April 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

Are Dolphins sentient?

Id definitely say yes without a second thought. Every known animal is sentient as long as they can follow at least one of the following points "the ability to feel, see, hear, smell, or taste" (Taken from the Merriam-Websters simple definition). I would personally also add the ability to communicate and/or solve logical problems.

Sentient is easy to define, what is difficult is defining intelligent life. Are Dolphins intelligent? Quite definitely yes. Are PUG players in MWO intelligent... sometimes yes, however that is still up for debate on a case by case basis.

[Rogue Jedi]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 01 April 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Also for all you thinking a Dolphin is sentient here is the scientific definition of sentience-

"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. "

Can Dolphins view and experience things subjectively? No. Why? Because in order to be subjective you must actually possess the ability to actually question subjectivity. They can't question anything yet. Maybe eventually they will be sentient but they are not right now. Being intelligent doesn't make you sentient.

Here is the Scientific criteria for something being sentient-
1. Consciousness (the ability to perceive right from wrong)
2. Creativity
3. Sapience (the ability to act with wisdom and judgement)
4. Self-Awareness (is the capacity for introspection and the ability to recognize oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals."
5. Introspection (the ability to examine your own thoughts and question existence)
6. Intentionality

Unfortunately Dolphins don't fit any of those other than Creativity (because they can problem solve). They are not self-aware, they can't introspect, they don't have a conscious, and they don't have Sapience (otherwise they'd have the ability to trust or distrust someone and make judgement based on a person).

That is one definition of sentience, not the only definition, in fact the original was specifically designed to define many animals as sentient, the original definition was more to do with the ability to feel or suffer for the purpose of animal rights.

It was mostly science fiction which added other things like consciousness, sapience and self awareness to the popular definition, which is a significant problem with using words like sentience without using the additional clarifying criteria, depending on who you ask there are potentially several different definitions, which i think is the issue here.
Do a web search and check the first few definitions, you will find they differ substantially.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 01 April 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[Exilyth]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 30 March 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Also did you ever think that it is schizophrenia, drunkeness, drugs, and attention disorders that make people believe in UFOs? Just wondering.

Have you ever heard about an experiment called "MK Ultra"?

[Podex]

Exilyth, on 01 April 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Have you ever heard about an experiment called "MK Ultra"?

Doesn't Michelob make that?