54 replies to this topic

[Embiggens The Small]

My friends and I really wanted to like CW. But it let us down. We are hardcore into this game, but usually there are just three of us. And we consistently would get matched against organized groups of 8+. PUG groups are at a huge disadvantage. So, losing horribly far more than we won, combined with the sheer amount of time it takes to get into and playing a CW game, we just gave it up.

For some reason, PGI thought it would be a good idea to split up their player base. If it were all one big CW queue, games would get started sooner, and the match-making would be better at matching big groups against big groups. Picking a faction and fighting against different factions sounds interesting, but it is hurting the game. Maybe it should just be IS vs Clan.

[MischiefSC]

Embiggens The Small, on 04 April 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

My friends and I really wanted to like CW. But it let us down. We are hardcore into this game, but usually there are just three of us. And we consistently would get matched against organized groups of 8+. PUG groups are at a huge disadvantage. So, losing horribly far more than we won, combined with the sheer amount of time it takes to get into and playing a CW game, we just gave it up.

For some reason, PGI thought it would be a good idea to split up their player base. If it were all one big CW queue, games would get started sooner, and the match-making would be better at matching big groups against big groups. Picking a faction and fighting against different factions sounds interesting, but it is hurting the game. Maybe it should just be IS vs Clan.

Here's the magic trick though -

Those 8mans? They would *love* to sync up with you 3, because I assure you that most times the 4 pugs they get irritate the crap out of them.

Get on the faction TS and make friends with the groups in whatever faction you're in and play together.

If it was just 'IS vs Clans' most of us would leave. It would eliminate the point of FW; you'd just have a QP queue with IS mechs vs Clan mechs. It would be as much 'Faction Warfare' as the new Domination gamemode is. Pointless and irrelevant.

Get involved with bigger groups. Drop with them to make a larger group and everyone wins. The problem is trying to drop a 3man plus pugs. Also quit dropping on defense. If you're dropping against units it's because you're in the defense queue. If you were in attack queue as things are right now you'd be a 3man + some other groups and a couple pugs vs a 3man and 9 pugs on the other side.

[Crockdaddy]

We are awaiting the holy grail otherwise known as "CW 3" ... much like Batman vs. Superman, I am keeping my expectations to Ben Affleck Gigli levels so I can enjoy it when I see it er I mean play CW 3 that is.

[Koshirou]

ArmandTulsen, on 03 April 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

Make CW the standard play mode. That's the Goddamn problem right now, it's an alternate mode for hardcore players.

The idea that a game with a player base the size of MWO's can afford to have a "hardcore mode" for a small elite is ridiculous anyway. Problem is: You'd have to completely redesign how game modes work in MWO and given PGI's development pace, I very much doubt that they'll be able to do that before the player base has dwindled away completely and the game shuts down for good.

I also don't understand why people think that CW3 will change a thing about that. Apart from "Scouting"-based advantages that are bound to be simply frustrating for many players, the actual CW games will play the same, with none of the strategic and tactical flaws in the setup being fixed. Sure, there's going to be a short-term influx of players brought about by the hype (and, no doubt, some event to "celebrate" CW3) but mark my words: It'll drop off again soon enough and is not likely to recover.

Embiggens The Small, on 04 April 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

Picking a faction and fighting against different factions sounds interesting, but it is hurting the game. Maybe it should just be IS vs Clan.

Yeah, the idea that a game with a player size the size of MWO's can afford to have a "hardcore mode" for a small elite and then atomize that sub-player base even further with 10 different factions is even more ridiculous.

Edited by Koshirou, 06 April 2016 - 02:30 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Duke Einholt, on 02 April 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

Getting to be standard practice for holding worlds if you dont defend the world most groups will not keep attacking it - everyone hate the pointless 10-20 wait time to drop then get no one to fight WORLD SECURED.

I love it, farming faction rewards with my alt on a laptop which wouldn't even be really suited for actual gameplay since it only achieves 8-10 fps. But it's perfect for Ghost Drops, even though the rewards are very low, they do not cost me time or anything.

If there happens to be a match (which I try to avoid), of course I disco the laptop and reconnect with my main rig.

j/k.

[Kuritaclan]

PFC Carsten, on 06 April 2016 - 02:57 AM, said:

I love it, farming faction rewards with my alt on a laptop which wouldn't even be really suited for actual gameplay since it only achieves 8-10 fps. But it's perfect for Ghost Drops, even though the rewards are very low, they do not cost me time or anything.

If there happens to be a match (which I try to avoid), of course I disco the laptop and reconnect with my main rig.

j/k.

new level.

[G SE7EN7]

ThomasMarik, on 02 April 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

There was around 100 on the kurita Marik border last night.

Its over now mate, No Marik action for Kurita today, looks like you guys finally had enough. Clan front was going off tho.

[PFC Carsten]

Kuritaclan, on 06 April 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

new level.

I hope you got the „j/k“!

[Dawnstealer]

FW is a fun REAL team-mode game-type, but since taking and holding planets doesn't mean anything, it's basically just a Quick Play mode where you get four drops in one match. That's it.

And that loses it's flavor after a bit. Then all you have are the hardcore players and teams that want to tag planets (for some reason) or obsessive grinders who want to level up several mechs at once, rake in cbills, get the rewards and tags from FW.

That last is pretty much the only reason I'm playing it now - I want that "General" rank tag. I still get bored after 2-3 FW matches and have to do something else, though.

[Kuritaclan]

PFC Carsten, on 06 April 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

I hope you got the „j/k“!

Not in the first place - but now you pointed it out.

Anyway. Hopefully cw p3 can push player numbers up.

[Embiggens The Small]

MischiefSC, on 04 April 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Get involved with bigger groups. Drop with them to make a larger group and everyone wins. The problem is trying to drop a 3man plus pugs. Also quit dropping on defense. If you're dropping against units it's because you're in the defense queue. If you were in attack queue as things are right now you'd be a 3man + some other groups and a couple pugs vs a 3man and 9 pugs on the other side.

So, why is it that the bigger groups play on the attack side more often? I've played a lot, but never combed the forums enough to learn all the ins-and-outs of the CW culture. It doesn't seem like there are really any rewards for taking and holding planets (which is another problem I have with CW).

[MischiefSC]

Embiggens The Small, on 06 April 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

So, why is it that the bigger groups play on the attack side more often? I've played a lot, but never combed the forums enough to learn all the ins-and-outs of the CW culture. It doesn't seem like there are really any rewards for taking and holding planets (which is another problem I have with CW).

Attack is actually easier on most maps. It lets you control the initiative. Initiative is where most pug team's really fail. When you're on Boreal and they call "just wait in the buildings" for example. It's a losing idea.

You know in QP when the NASCAR starts and in a bit it seems like one team is running away and one team is chasing? That's initiative. One side is driving the engagement, one is reacting. So you play attack and you play very aggressive and you drive the initiative for the match.

Also it takes 12 attackers to attack which, because most pugs foolishly drop defense, is easier in a unit to get everyone in the same queue.

Get a group going. Play agressively, drop in attack queue, you'll win way more often and learn better skills. Look for the good teams; I think KCom is still in Steiner. You literally could not drop with better people to learn to play. Get in their TS, listen, pay attention, do what they call regardless of what you think and you'll end the day much better at the game than you started.

A big problem in MWO is people trying to reinvent the wheel. "Figuring it out for yourself" is a terrible way to learn to do something well. Go play with good players, learn to play well.

[Jack Booted Thug]

G SE7EN7, on 06 April 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

Its over now mate, No Marik action for Kurita today, looks like you guys finally had enough. Clan front was going off tho.

MS was Marik and that was the only reason Kurita was getting any IS vs IS action. Now that they left, it is over.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Embiggens The Small, on 06 April 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

So, why is it that the bigger groups play on the attack side more often? I've played a lot, but never combed the forums enough to learn all the ins-and-outs of the CW culture. It doesn't seem like there are really any rewards for taking and holding planets (which is another problem I have with CW).

I think it more has to do with the defense que's usually being overpopulated with defenders.

Meaning: most of the time there are already ample defenders lined up against an attack so queing for defense is a long wait.

If you go on the attack it seems you are more likely to get a faster match, most of the time.


Think of it this way, if you see a defend que with 48 defenders already lined up against 24 attackers, you know you are going to be waiting a long time to get a defense drop.

Or you can que up for an attack and probably get a match in a few minutes.

Edit: I should say hopefully, maybe, possibly get a faster drop.

Edited by Jack Booted Thug, 06 April 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Embiggens The Small, on 06 April 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

So, why is it that the bigger groups play on the attack side more often? I've played a lot, but never combed the forums enough to learn all the ins-and-outs of the CW culture. It doesn't seem like there are really any rewards for taking and holding planets (which is another problem I have with CW).

Two general rules of thumb:
-go into defense to pull a group to play against
-go on the offense to farm PUGs/skrubs

If I'm with a QQ group, we tend to go on defense to pull groups attacking. If I'm soloing CW I go into an attack queue so the defenders are very likely just a bunch of skittles. And often, when attacking, once smaller groups see people filling an attack queue they also join in with you creating a snowball effect.

[vandalhooch]

Attacking in a Clan vs. IS planet gets you matches faster because you pull defenders from all available factions, not just one. Attacking IS vs. IS or Clan vs. Clan makes you wait for 12 pugs from one faction to form up in defense. Takes too long.

[oldradagast]

ArmandTulsen, on 03 April 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

Make CW the standard play mode. That's the Goddamn problem right now, it's an alternate mode for hardcore players.

**** THAT! FACTION WARFARE IS WHAT THE GAME IS ULTIMATELY ABOUT, DAMNIT!

Get rid of the word "FACTION" in the UI. Have it say "PLAY", not "FACTION PLAY". When n00bs click on it and pick a faction, they will become conditioned to it being the normal game mode, which it should be.

If PGI wants to be serious about CW, they have to do everything they can to direct people towards it. That includes standardizing the game mode, as well as incentivizing it better. CW feels like a half-assed afterthought. Far more effort goes into quickplay than CW, and it really, really shows.

As long as Faction Warfare consists of ghost drops and seal-stomping, it should NOT be the general game mode. The problem is that the game mode is not fun; that problem must be fixed first, and forcing everyone into the not-fun game mode will just kill the game, not fix it.

[PFC Carsten]

There are pretty easy solutions to both of these problems being posted time and again. Only, PGI chose to ignore them, instead working on "info warfare" (postponed, even cancelled?), cluttering existing maps, de-cluttering some of them again, fixing flamers by breaking the game, de-fixing flamers again and unbreak the game, introducing a new game mode, which enforces "all to the middle and brawl" even more than regular gameplay and so on and on and on...

It's kinda hopeless i fear.

[Willard Phule]

I really hope they come out with an FW map specifically for all the new guys we're having to carry. Something that makes them more than baby seals to be harvested.

Something like a wide open plain with dug in positions for them to set up their massive LRM barrage. That would work. Maybe give them lots of turrets to lock targets for them or something.

[Mole]

I always felt like attacking was far too easy in CW. You're defending a position that is heavily fortified and SUPPOSED to be a defensible position. Except it's not defensible at all. The turrets are a joke and so are the gates. What's the point of even having a gate when you can open either one in two seconds flat by shooting the generator that the ****** of a base designer placed in plain view above the gate that it powers? Might as well just have both gates open from the start. It takes zero effort to open one and oftentimes the attackers will only open one gate and use the fact that they cannot get flanked out the other gate to their advantage. It needs to feel more like a siege and less like a zerg rush.