13 replies to this topic

[M3 SABLE]

Imo assault is somewhat an under-performing mech class. It is also the most limited and restricted mech-type to choose, due to its tonnage. I suppose that it is explained math-wise, that you technically bring more weapons with the more tonnage you have.

However, i don't know about you, but it seems to me that the current balance of the game, does not really submit to that rule of power dynamic.

Lights and assaults are the least played classes in the game. However, while lights fully fulfill their purpose in combat and scouting, assaults are really nothing special when there are powerful Heavies and Mediums that punch as hard, and move quickly.

So I thought that maybe they could add a new-type of positive quirks to some under-performing assaults. For example:

Executioner or Gargoyle: -25/-15 tons in Community Warfare mode.

Just for the tonnage counting purposes ofc.

Edited by M3 SABLE, 03 April 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[FupDup]

Maybe it's time to admit that trying to balance CW (or any other part of the game, really) with mech tonnage simply isn't effective to begin with?

[El Bandito]

I still see the Executioner performing well in CW. It is also a fast Assault able to keep up with the speedy style of the Clans. I do not think it needs negative weight quirks.

Also, if we are talking about under-performing Assaults, Victor needs to be treated as a 50 ton mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 April 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

CW tonnage as a whole needs to drop. What we currently have, 260, is too much.

[M3 SABLE]

El Bandito, on 03 April 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

I still see the Executioner performing well in CW. It is also a fast Assault able to keep up with the speedy style of the Clans. I do not think it needs negative weight quirks.

Also, if we are talking about under-performing Assaults, Victor needs to be treated as a 50 ton mech.

It is a great mech, and my main favorite on the Clan side (Atlas on IS). However, what annoys me, is that if people happen to main other classes, they can. They can totally stack their Ebon Jags, Black Jacks, and etc, in much higher count. While some assaults have an alpha equivalent of a medium, but weight much more. And armor count really does not compensate for the speed you lose.

And yes, Victor should get that treatment imo. I think it is still somewhat better than just quirking its weapons to behave in far beyond standard ways.

Edited by M3 SABLE, 03 April 2016 - 07:11 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 03 April 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

CW tonnage as a whole needs to drop. What we currently have, 260, is too much.

How does 220 tons sound?

Actually, I feel like IS get a harder advantage at the lower weights.

[M3 SABLE]

Lowering CW tonnage in no way addresses the problem that I initially mentioned guys.

Mediums and heavy mechs offer way more benefit-per-ton, in terms of movement, durability, and damage. (Also include super quirks if we talk about IS specifically).

And i am really rather in favor for people to play what they want, as much as limit allows.

However, considering mech balance, Assaults trail behind in terms of power, but eat up most of the allowed CW tonnage. That notion is not justified considering the balance of the game.
They are simply not the power-houses that their name suggests. More like fire-support.

Edited by M3 SABLE, 03 April 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Not all Asssaults.

My pair of WubShees got me a couple 3k rounds last night, and could have gotten my even more had the teams been less competent (hurray for groups).

Some Assaults are bad, yes. Far worse than lighter mechs (see Mr Gargles VS Timby).
This isn't a CW exclusive problem, and is better solved by universal changes (ie, CW+PUG LIFE)


Lowering their weight doesn't make you pick them, because they still perform far worse than the alternatives.

[sycocys]

Lowering tonnage directly affects the value of assault mechs. When people aren't able to bring 3-4 heavies with 60+ point alpha shots ttk for assaults rises significantly.

[M3 SABLE]

Mcgral18, on 03 April 2016 - 07:51 PM, said:

Not all Asssaults.

My pair of WubShees got me a couple 3k rounds last night, and could have gotten my even more had the teams been less competent (hurray for groups).

Some Assaults are bad, yes. Far worse than lighter mechs (see Mr Gargles VS Timby).
This isn't a CW exclusive problem, and is better solved by universal changes (ie, CW+PUG LIFE)


Lowering their weight doesn't make you pick them, because they still perform far worse than the alternatives.

Well, I am talking about bad performers, and quirks for only the specific mechs.
i don't mention to just mindlessly lift all the tonnage for assaults, and cause yet another issue.

Dire Wolf's alpha isn't gone anywhere in CW.

Edited by M3 SABLE, 03 April 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[ArchSight]

M3 SABLE, on 03 April 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

Imo assault is somewhat an under-performing mech class. It is also the most limited and restricted mech-type to choose, due to its tonnage. I suppose that it is explained math-wise, that you technically bring more weapons with the more tonnage you have.

However, i don't know about you, but it seems to me that the current balance of the game, does not really submit to that rule of power dynamic.

Lights and assaults are the least played classes in the game. However, while lights fully fulfill their purpose in combat and scouting, assaults are really nothing special when there are powerful Heavies and Mediums that punch as hard, and move quickly.

So I thought that maybe they could add a new-type of positive quirks to some under-performing assaults. For example:

Executioner or Gargoyle: -25/-15 tons in Community Warfare mode.

Just for the tonnage counting purposes ofc.

A player playing a assault while underperforming their best scores can be the player's fault in not understanding how to use their mech with their team. I have seen player's perform well in assaults and carried the team to victory before. Player skill has nothing to do with the math as to why it's under performing or over performing. The Math involved with tonnage balancing is about how far a mech can go if the player's using it does take it that far. Assaults are at the peak of how many hit's they can sustain before being killed and how much firepower they can mount. They have the most hit points Internally and externally every 5 tons higher. More hit points means more damage that mech or player's life can take. Using up all 260 tons in the drop deck does result in the player being able to take more damage but they wont be taking more damage when they need to if they have a closely balanced drop deck against a 260 drop deck with a assault and a light in it. This is because the assault will out tonnage the heavy in the wave it's used on. What assures victory in CW/FW is winning the three out of four waves of battle in the game mode. The light in the drop deck frees up tonnage to make it more probable that those three waves are won before the fourth wave.

Right now, Gargy's are fine as laser vomit mechs and Executioners are capable of doing more.

Current game balance that I experience is about what mechs have the best alpha strikes, how long they can sustain fire alpha strikes, and how much damage can be taken before death. I'm hoping for the new heat scale system to change this because not all mechs can carry the best alpha strike and need a way to catch up to the DPS of the best alpha strikes without quirking to ridicules fire rates that lowers time to kill more in the game.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 April 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

How does 220 tons sound?

Actually, I feel like IS get a harder advantage at the lower weights.

That's what I was thinking, and if that's too low then bump it back to the original weight of 240

[Roughneck Cobra]

God you guys are ignorant to the OP, jesus H jimmy.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 03 April 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

I still see the Executioner performing well in CW. It is also a fast Assault able to keep up with the speedy style of the Clans. I do not think it needs negative weight quirks.

Also, if we are talking about under-performing Assaults, Victor needs to be treated as a 50 ton mech.

Executioner is pretty decent in CW, I did use them a bit before the tonnage was increased to 260 for clans. Now quad heavy mechs seems too good to turn down just to bring an Executioner along. At 250 tons dual Executioner and dual ACH was a powerhouse.