1049 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I even count a half dozen solid assault designs, though nothing of note on the Assault Omni front.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

JJs aren't a big deal since you can only mount 3, 4 high mounts may help but I'm skeptical, the 2 could be solid though. Considering that though, it still has the sombrero, which if we are not counting that, then the Glass Spider is a solid lock (and preferred imo).

The Sombrero is indeed the big question mark, and since we don't have an anti air role, one which I would have to assume Alex would address. Because if not, then yes, everything said pretty much goes out the window.

But not sure what's not to like about a 68 kph jumping (3 JJs is enough, if not spectacular) Wubvomit.

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

sorry but without "in advance knowledge" of some sor tof buff for the Kingfisher, I can't call it good. If they DID add ECM or some structure buffs up the wazoo, etc, sure it would be viable.

But we have zero indication they would, or honest reason to assume so.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

But not sure what's not to like about a 68 kph jumping (3 JJs is enough, if not spectacular) Wubvomit.

The fact it only goes 68kph when my Wubshee out runs it (by like .4kph) >_>

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 April 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Well you have to try the Dual gauss, 4 ER ML build

And the dakka builds... 4 UAC5s is Mauler firepower (although will be difficult to apply it the same against non-slow assaults), adn 3 UAC10s is nifty as well. Definitely 4 viable builds there.

I am sure there is something besides my pet build that I could find to run with 36.5T of pod space

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

sorry but without "in advance knowledge" of some sor tof buff for the Kingfisher, I can't call it good. If they DID add ECM or some structure buffs up the wazoo, etc, sure it would be viable.

But we have zero indication they would, or honest reason to assume so.

Actually given its similarity to the Executioner with lack of JJs and MASC, you can almost assure that it will get AT LEAST the same agility quirks, likely some structure as well. Let's see how they release the next couple omni's, if they appear to have lessened there hesitation to apply quirks to Clan Omni's we can probably safely assume there will be something. The Gargoyle has significant structure quirks, so does the Summoner actually.

And yeah, ECM Clan assault with a few high hardpoints will still likely print money, no concerns there. From what I hear it was actually a pretty popular mech in TT, so it has that avenue as well.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[pbiggz]

If they just threw out the stock loadouts and made their own then maybe the turky and the kingfisher could be undisputedly good, but alas, we bitched too much about mechwarrior 4 in days of yore, and now PGI is too scared to ever deviate from stock.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

The fact it only goes 68kph when my Wubshee out runs it (by like .4kph) >_>

Yeah, it outruns my HBK 4G, too. Don't see me getting too worried about it.

(find a hill watch Wubshee slow to molasses speed, use JJs, and ability to elevate and depress wubs to kill Wubshee that can't move torso guns enough, profit)

MediuM Mechs guys. Finding way to outsmart and kill faster Assaults since 2012.

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Actually given its similarity to the Executioner with lack of JJs and MASC, you can almost assure that it will get AT LEAST the same agility quirks, likely some structure as well. Let's see how they release the next couple omni's, if they appear to have lessened there hesitation to apply quirks to Clan Omni's we can probably safely assume there will be something. The Gargoyle has significant structure quirks, so does the Summoner actually.

And yeah, ECM Clan assault with a few high hardpoints will still likely print money, no concerns there. From what I hear it was actually a pretty popular mech in TT, so it has that avenue as well.

nothing, nada, zip to make the leap to ECM assumption though.

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

If they just threw out the stock loadouts and made their own then maybe the turky and the kingfisher could be undisputedly good, but alas, we bitched too much about mechwarrior 4 in days of yore, and now PGI is too scared to ever deviate from stock.

at this point would open a huuuuuge can of worms, too.

PGI Devs already "can't get anything right" or win, no matter what they do. Open up non stock loadouts now?

Boy would things get ugly. Like... way ugly. Fast.

[Gas Guzzler]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

If they just threw out the stock loadouts and made their own then maybe the turky and the kingfisher could be undisputedly good, but alas, we bitched too much about mechwarrior 4 in days of yore, and now PGI is too scared to ever deviate from stock.

The Kingfisher actually has good hardpoints for a big ballistic + laser vomit, its limiter is, as you have said many times, the 24 tons of podspace, but it does have 17 DHS locked in, which most Clan builds use at least that many anyway.

The ECM and tankiness should be its selling points, and it still brings enough firepower to kill things, even if it is comparable to a Timber Wolf.

I can't be the only one that wants a nice tanky Clan assault with a few high hardpoints and ECM (likely now that they have the reinforcement packs, if PGI wants to make money they will put that in there).

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

The Kingfisher actually has good hardpoints for a big ballistic + laser vomit, its limiter is, as you have said many times, the 24 tons of podspace, but it does have 17 DHS locked in, which most Clan builds use at least that many anyway.

The ECM and tankiness should be its selling points, and it still brings enough firepower to kill things, even if it is comparable to a Timber Wolf.

I can't be the only one that wants a nice tanky Clan assault with a few high hardpoints and ECM (likely now that they have the reinforcement packs, if PGI wants to make money they will put that in there).

Which variant comes with ECM, again?

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

nothing, nada, zip to make the leap to ECM assumption though.

We can consider it a significant possibility.

Russ has said specifically that the Kingfisher F with the HAG 30 could be released with a Gauss in its place, and now that we are doing the single pack with Reinforcement thing, they will try to sell 5 Variants. Since the A and D configs bring absolutely nothing, and PGI wants to make money, I'm sure they will throw the F in there, probably in place of the D because that one is really boring. People will rage about it being a reinforcement though.

I'm not denying that there is some wishful thinking there, but I think PGI's desire to sell mechs, and there aren't any other in timeline Clan assaults with ECM are there?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

We can consider it a significant possibility.

Russ has said specifically that the Kingfisher F with the HAG 30 could be released with a Gauss in its place, and now that we are doing the single pack with Reinforcement thing, they will try to sell 5 Variants. Since the A config brings absolutely nothing, and PGI wants to make money, I'm sure they will throw the F in there. People will rage about it being a reinforcement though.

I would agree it would help sell it.

I can't agree that it's a "significant" possibility, as there is no real "fixed precedent" to decide what mechs will get an extraneous ECM allotment. The ones released in the past, (Commando, Cicada, Atlas) were specifically to help counter the Raven 3L being the ONLY ECM mech in the game for a length of time.

But beyond that, it's speculation at best, wish projection at worst, which tends to lead to serious disappointment when/if not met.

So, I'm not trying to be a dbag about this, anymore than I was trying to be a dbag when I pointed out the flies in the ointment for other mech arguments, but unless you have some significant precedents and info to base it on, it's all blue sky, my friend.

I'd be all for both scenarios, as I've told you before. But to promote it based on that, with ZERO confirmation from the Devs, is as disingenuous as the whole "timeline is not a factor" argument was. And at the risk of starting "crapstorm 2.0" I'm going to call you on it, just like I did them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 April 2016 - 11:14 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

I would agree it would help sell it.

I can't agree that it's a "significant" possibility, as there is no real "fixed precedent" to decide what mechs will get an extraneous ECM allotment. The ones released in the past, (Commando, Cicada, Atlas) were specifically to help counter the Raven 3L being the ONLY ECM mech in the game for a length of time.

But beyond that, it's speculation at best, wish projection at worst, which tends to lead to serious disappointment when/if not met.

So, I'm not trying to be a dbag about this, anymore than I was trying to be a dbag when I pointed out the flies in the ointment for other mech arguments, but unless you have some significant precedents and info to base it on, it's all blue sky, my friend.

I'd be all for both scenarios, as I've told you before. But to promote it based on that, with ZERO confirmation from the Devs, is as disingenuous as the whole "timeline is not a factor" argument was. And at the risk of starting "crapstorm 2.0" I'm going to call you on it, just like I did them.

Yeah, it is speculation and wishful thinking, I admit, but I mean, they did give us a Tempest with ECM, which was a stretch as well.

I think the only possible outcomes are:

We get the Kingfisher and modified F ECM variant
We don't get the Kingfisher

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Yeah, it is speculation and wishful thinking, I admit, but I mean, they did give us a Tempest with ECM, which was a stretch as well.

I think the only possible outcomes are:

We get the Kingfisher and modified F ECM variant
We don't get the Kingfisher

I agree Tempest was a stretch, though at least it was to "emulate" the (very stupid) Phantom Mech story line.

I hate that, because 1) I hate that part of the novels. I get they went for the weird war stories effect, but MEH. 2) We ain't morgan kell. We're driving a morgan kell limited edition fan mech. 3) 1 person having access to a lost Guardian ECM might make sense, but not 3 on 3 separate mechs (including hardwiring it into Ardan Sortek's VTR for the Moonbase rescue, then stripping it back out again before presenting the mech back to the FedSuns) 4) definitely falls apart from the plot/most terrible secret storyline 5) and implodes further in the BAttle of Luthien, where the Smoke Jags couldn't shoot him, either, despite having ECM mech sof their own, which magically got shot.

Just...ugh.

Tempest should not have ECM, unless, IDK that's supposed to be further proof these are "fan mechs" and it's "emulate morgan kell" equipment?

IDK....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

and implodes further in the BAttle of Luthien, where the Smoke Jags couldn't shoot him, either, despite having ECM mech sof their own, which magically got shot.

It's a special upgraded version of Guardian ECM, called Plot ECM, and was only ever available for that one mech, it's like plot armor but supercharged and better

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 April 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I agree Tempest was a stretch, though at least it was to "emulate" the (very stupid) Phantom Mech story line.

I hate that, because 1) I hate that part of the novels. I get they went for the weird war stories effect, but MEH. 2) We ain't morgan kell. We're driving a morgan kell limited edition fan mech. 3) 1 person having access to a lost Guardian ECM might make sense, but not 3 on 3 separate mechs (including hardwiring it into Ardan Sortek's VTR for the Moonbase rescue, then stripping it back out again before presenting the mech back to the FedSuns) 4) definitely falls apart from the plot/most terrible secret storyline 5) and implodes further in the BAttle of Luthien, where the Smoke Jags couldn't shoot him, either, despite having ECM mech sof their own, which magically got shot.

Just...ugh.

Tempest should not have ECM, unless, IDK that's supposed to be further proof these are "fan mechs" and it's "emulate morgan kell" equipment?

IDK....

Precisely my point. Tempest has no business having ECM yet it does, whilst the Kingfisher F has every right to it, and Russ said they would be willing to sub a Gauss in for the HAG 30.

*shrugs*

Like I said, they will either release it with ECM or we won't get it. I don't see them releasing a Kingfisher without ECM.

[1453 R]

We’re honestly just about out of top-flight OmniMechs in the current timeline. There’s a few good options for mediums (I maintain that the Grendel would be a nifty halfway point between a Huntsman and a Viper, but I also know for a fact I’m alone in that opinion), but after the two mediums/two heavies Russ had mentioned, I’m thinking we’re either going to start seeing more Clan BattleMechs and other second-liners, or that’s rightabouts the time when he’s going to start investigating a timeskip.

Let’s all face reality here – there’s going to be ‘Mechs that get ‘abandoned’ by the timeline. Most of them will probably be things nobody cares about – I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again; ain’t nobody cares if the Whitworth ever gets into this game – but while Russ’ determination to get as many timeline-appropriate machines as he can in before the soft cutoff is indeed cool, we’re not getting all of them.

Frankly, I think a lot of it is buying the devs time to try and figure out how to implement/balance certain types of FutureTech equipment. Russ seems particularly concerned with heavy lasers, and I can see where people just would not appreciate dealing with HAG-40s (or MRM-40s). Coding for things like MMLs or ATMs make their whole “we can’t do ammo switching between slug and cluster rounds for LBX autocannons” schtick really, really painful.

Suppose that means there’s still a shot for non top-flight Omnis like the Turdkina to make it in. Frankly the Mega Turkey could probably be made to compete with the Whale alright-ish if it was given significantly wider twist arcs/speeds, or other torso mobility boons over the War Blimp. Less firepower, significantly worse hardpoints, but better ability to get what guns it does have on target. Seems to sorta fit with the jumpy semi-precision thing Turkeys do. Beyond that…well, we’ll need to get into BattleMechs before too long here, unless Piranha wants to try and sell just outright bad OmniMechs.

Which, given the Mist Lynx, they’re perfectly willing to do. Just don’t see that working nearly as well in these modern Singleton Pack days.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I'm not denying that there is some wishful thinking there, but I think PGI's desire to sell mechs, and there aren't any other in timeline Clan assaults with ECM are there?

DWF-C

As a matter of fact...something that people have wanted for ages and ages. After the KDK drops, they might even roll the DW-C out.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 08 April 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

DWF-C

As a matter of fact...something that people have wanted for ages and ages. After the KDK drops, they might even roll the DW-C out.

I don't think they will dude. Besides, you have the same substitution issue as the Kingfisher F. That ATM would need to be swapped out. And the one shot SSRM 4??

With its mega-firepower, all mobility issues aside, they won't throw ECM onto it because the resulting QQ from the masses would be too much. I'm not saying it will be OP, but the masses will go nuts. Its sad but true.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

We’re honestly just about out of top-flight OmniMechs in the current timeline. There’s a few good options for mediums (I maintain that the Grendel would be a nifty halfway point between a Huntsman and a Viper, but I also know for a fact I’m alone in that opinion), but after the two mediums/two heavies Russ had mentioned, I’m thinking we’re either going to start seeing more Clan BattleMechs and other second-liners, or that’s rightabouts the time when he’s going to start investigating a timeskip.

Let’s all face reality here – there’s going to be ‘Mechs that get ‘abandoned’ by the timeline. Most of them will probably be things nobody cares about – I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again; ain’t nobody cares if the Whitworth ever gets into this game – but while Russ’ determination to get as many timeline-appropriate machines as he can in before the soft cutoff is indeed cool, we’re not getting all of them.

Certainly, they will abandon some to history. Theres over 100 still possible mechs between IS and Clans, in this timeline. Ain't no way this game keeps afloat trudging through 8 years of mechs before skipping.

Kodiak and Origins say that Clan Battlemechs AND IICs are on the radar to be added. We have a dozen to a dozen and a half good candidates just in those.

On top of that is an equal number of really good potential IS mechs. I really don't see them waiting 3 years to skip though. I don't think the interest will stay for that long of a wait. My thought, is probably 1 year at earliest, realistically with everything in the chute, and involved in an actual legit timeskip, and 2 years on the outside.

While it would undoubtedly end up in some of my favorites getting skipped, I'd probably for playerbase interest reasons, prefer to see it closer to the beginning of 2017 than 2018. Which means a possible 6 more mechs in timeline for this calendar year to announce, almost being a lock. If we do assume a 6/6 split, that's 2 more IS, 4 more clan for 2016 (or one floater, switch the surprise mid month mech being IS... could mean 7 of one or the other...or another surprise double release month, who knows)). One can probably guess the next IS to be the the Mid Month announcement of probably the Cyclops, then the Crusader, at some point, leaving at most, probably 1 IS mech.

So real world, what are the next 4 Clan Mechs and probable remaining 1 IS mech going to be?

2016:
Jan: Warhammer
Feb: Rifleman
March: Archer
April: Kodiak ????
May: ????? Kodiak
June: Phoenix Hawk
July: Viper (And Cyclops?)
August: (Cyclops?)
Sept: ????
Oct: ????
Nov: ????
Dec: ????

We know that he said 2 medium, 2 heavies, for the Clan Mechs he "liked". Viper was one. So 2 Heavy, One medium, leaving possible 1 mystery Class Clanner, and the IS to speculate.

My guesses for remaining IS of 2016: Cyclops (Mystery Mech), Crusader (close out the unseen classic cycle) and maybe the Assassin. ( Doubt my Vulcan will make the cut)

For Clans? Probably Black Lanner (cause it's an Omni), Night Gyr, and then I think it'll probably be Clan Battlemechs, like the Grizzly and Stone Rhino (Maybe Bane, but I see more love for the ol Behemoth than it, fo a number of obvious non meta reasons).

Then... I would not be shocked to see a timeskip and new mech era announced for the opening of 2017.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 April 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

We don't really need more IS mechs... Clans are the ones in dire need of more variety, I would not be disappointed if the rest of 2016 was all Clan, aside from the mystery mid month mech.

Is there really some other role we need in the IS? I feel like everything is covered already, and then some.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 April 2016 - 12:03 PM.