1049 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Spirit Bear needs the Office Linebacker badge.

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Spirit Bear needs the Office Linebacker badge.

Oh yeah. if we had melee and/or knockdowns, the Spirit Bear would quickly become everybody's favorite 'Mech just for raw Hulkish jollies

[Scout Derek]

Gyrok, on 08 April 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

I meant twist arc, or yaw if you prefer.

I am sure it will twist quickly, my concern is that it has the DW and EXE's anemic yaw.

Ahh now I see, well, I can't say, as each mech has it's own arc.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 08 April 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

1 slug > 4 slugs.

4 slugs over .33 seconds, followed immediately by 4 more. You can't hold target for the duration of an SPL, that's a you issue.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Yeah, but if the Fatlas can out-twist the Spirit Bear (and/or standard Kodiak), that's a not insignificant advantage for the Fatlas. The AS7-S has slightly more SRM firepower than the Spirit Bear, while the Spirit Bear has an arguably better autocannon. In brawling range I'm going to call iMLs and cSPLs a wash between the two of them (I know, I KNOW, that's not actually remotely true. Between these two, given everything else they're doing? The differences are less critical than they might otherwise be). They're going to have roughly similar RAWRGSMASH capabilities; the Spirit Bear will be faster, significantly so with its M.A.S.C. up, but it'll also be less durable without the AS7's massive structure quirks, and if it's limited to Whale-level twisting as well, it's going to be much easier to tear down.

In an out-and-out Kaiju Rumble between the two...I could see the AS7-S taking it, assuming what we're currently figuring to be the case with the Spirit Bear's twist arcs and lack-of-quirks. In said Kaiju Rumble, the AS7-S will probably have a pretty hefty edge over any non-Spirit Bear Kodiak as well. They just can't match its defensive ruggedness.

'Course, the Spirit Bear will be much better at running down, and subsequently over, smaller machines than the AS7-S will be, which gives it a certain flair. Dat M.A.S.C., bruh. I can't help but picture the Spirit Bear charging a Hunchback with that freight train horn sound going, and watching the Hunchback leak coolant all over its legs because it knows there's no hope anymore.

Most anything (other than a Whale, and/or Krabs/Maulers) can get away from an AS7-S if they have to. The Spirit Bear? Not so much.

dat MASC and such will give it some serious mobility advantages, especially with the much larger engine. While normally I go CT, vs the 7S I'd be planting 2-3 alphas in the LT, which the Atlas doesn't really have the arms to absorb. That goes, the Atlas ,loses. Period.

If both pilots stand and stare, I reckon the Atlas has the advantage. With MASC and a 400xl? That KDK is dancing in Medium Mech mobility range. Not really something to underestimate.

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

dat MASC and such will give it some serious mobility advantages, especially with the much larger engine. While normally I go CT, vs the 7S I'd be planting 2-3 alphas in the LT, which the Atlas doesn't really have the arms to absorb. That goes, the Atlas ,loses. Period.

If both pilots stand and stare, I reckon the Atlas has the advantage. With MASC and a 400xl? That KDK is dancing in Medium Mech mobility range. Not really something to underestimate.

Absolutely, but you can't tell me the Spirit Bear doesn't have to be careful, and furthermore have to have that plan in place from the start. It'd depend on which pilot was better at playing to their machine's strengths, which I see as a very positive thing indeed.

Nevertheless, the KDK's potential speed and firepower are going to have to cost it somewhere. Or so logic would dictate, anyways. I mean hell, maybe I'm blowing smoke and the Kodiak will drop with +15 structure across its shoulders and a 100-degree twist arc, and for the first time in a very long while Gyrok will actually have a point...but the last several assault 'Mech launches have me thinking I'm closer to right than wrong on this one.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Absolutely, but you can't tell me the Spirit Bear doesn't have to be careful, and furthermore have to have that plan in place from the start. It'd depend on which pilot was better at playing to their machine's strengths, which I see as a very positive thing indeed.

Nevertheless, the KDK's potential speed and firepower are going to have to cost it somewhere. Or so logic would dictate, anyways. I mean hell, maybe I'm blowing smoke and the Kodiak will drop with +15 structure across its shoulders and a 100-degree twist arc, and for the first time in a very long while Gyrok will actually have a point...but the last several assault 'Mech launches have me thinking I'm closer to right than wrong on this one.

we shall see. I do find mobility counts for more than structure most often.

[Gyrok]

1453 R, on 08 April 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Absolutely, but you can't tell me the Spirit Bear doesn't have to be careful, and furthermore have to have that plan in place from the start. It'd depend on which pilot was better at playing to their machine's strengths, which I see as a very positive thing indeed.

Nevertheless, the KDK's potential speed and firepower are going to have to cost it somewhere. Or so logic would dictate, anyways. I mean hell, maybe I'm blowing smoke and the Kodiak will drop with +15 structure across its shoulders and a 100-degree twist arc, and for the first time in a very long while Gyrok will actually have a point...but the last several assault 'Mech launches have me thinking I'm closer to right than wrong on this one.

Unless the KDK can only turn by moving it's legs...it is better than the DW.

[wanderer]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Thats very interesting to hear coming from the guy who straight up said he'd oppose the MK II just to be a vindictive **** to my friend. Russ's only real limiter for mechs was tech, and the MK II was winning that first vote until you showed up and started telling everyone that the timeline mattered, then everyone defaulted to the kodiak instead.

Compared to the Kodiak, the MkII is a junk pick for the Clans.

Having a 100-tonner that can actually maneuver is something Clan lineups really needed. That it's meta-fitting into an Atlas style role also gives it nice flavor vs. the Dire Whale Turret mode we have now for the big assault on the Clan block.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 08 April 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

Compared to the Kodiak, the MkII is a junk pick for the Clans.

Having a 100-tonner that can actually maneuver is something Clan lineups really needed. That it's meta-fitting into an Atlas style role also gives it nice flavor vs. the Dire Whale Turret mode we have now for the big assault on the Clan block.

Considering Derek just cleaned this thread out, why are you reaching back so far? Also, categorically wrong, because 90 tonner > 100 tonner 100% of the time. 100 tonners are not weight efficient, require larger engines, and generally have larger hitboxes. Both the MK II and the Kodiak are fast. Both are heavy hitters, the MK II would have better hitboxes and higher hardpoints, so to say its junk is simply untrue, but we're not talking about the MK II because its not going to be the next clan mech.

[CK16]

Yea...I do not think the Mk.II will be a junk mech, if you try to play it close up yea maybe it will but the thing is meant to pump out dps. In lore wise twin Gauss Rifles and 2 LMR-10's can keep a very steady rate of fire on a trarget, the 4 ER mediums will be the finish move once you close in for the kill, its not a sniper mech its a mid to long range skrimisher and does well at it, decent armor protection and profile along with good mobiltly. The Mk.II is no Dire Wolf...the 4 top Clan mechs really are the Kodiak(bralwer?), Mk.II (Long Range), Blood Asp (All rounder like the Timberwolf), and Dire Wolf(Gun/Laser Boat) each filling a very well to a roll.

Don't dismiss the Mk.II just cause you might consider it boring..


also side note some one on a different forum brought up that with Diamond Shark getting the War hawk plans after Bull Dog that some of the components MIGHT be Warhawk design with Timberwolf cosmetics....just food for thought.

Edited by CK16, 08 April 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Also, categorically wrong, because 90 tonner > 100 tonner 100% of the time.

Ummmmm, wat.

pbiggz, on 08 April 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Both are heavy hitters, the MK II would have better hitboxes and higher hardpoints

Better hitboxes, maybe, higher hardpoints, naw. The ballistic mounts on the Kodiak will be better, the energy mounts are a different story.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 April 2016 - 08:37 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 08 April 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

Yea...I do not think the Mk.II will be a junk mech, if you try to play it close up yea maybe it will but the thing is meant to pump out dps. In lore wise twin Gauss Rifles and 2 LMR-10's can keep a very steady rate of fire on a trarget, the 4 ER mediums will be the finish move once you close in for the kill, its not a sniper mech its a mid to long range skrimisher and does well at it, decent armor protection and profile along with good mobiltly. The Mk.II is no Dire Wolf...the 4 top Clan mechs really are the Kodiak(bralwer?), Mk.II (Long Range), Blood Asp (All rounder like the Timberwolf), and Dire Wolf(Gun/Laser Boat) each filling a very well to a roll.

Don't dismiss the Mk.II just cause you might consider it boring..


also side note some one on a different forum brought up that with Diamond Shark getting the War hawk plans after Bull Dog that some of the components MIGHT be Warhawk design with Timberwolf cosmetics....just food for thought.

not sure I'd put "DPS" and gauss in the same sentence, lol.

Should be a solid mech, but it's very much an alpha striker, not constant DPS machine. Still, when they come mine will probably be UAC10s and Streak 6.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ummmmm, wat.


Better hitboxes, maybe, higher hardpoints, naw. The ballistic mounts on the Kodiak will be better, the energy mounts are a different story.

Better hitboxes are freaking conjecture ATM. Kodiak has the potential to be hitbox gold. Mobile mech with gorilla arms are the epitome of hitbox perfection.

Pretty much only the underhive argues that.

[CK16]

I was talking about in Lore wise high rate of fire sorta thing, I know in MWO well yea....I mean I would love a %50 GR down for the Mk.II >.<

[Ace Selin]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

The Kingfisher actually has good hardpoints for a big ballistic + laser vomit, its limiter is, as you have said many times, the 24 tons of podspace, but it does have 17 DHS locked in, which most Clan builds use at least that many anyway.

The ECM and tankiness should be its selling points, and it still brings enough firepower to kill things, even if it is comparable to a Timber Wolf.

I can't be the only one that wants a nice tanky Clan assault with a few high hardpoints and ECM (likely now that they have the reinforcement packs, if PGI wants to make money they will put that in there).

Yes, i would certainly get this mech.

The Night Gyr too i am looking forward to.

[Scout Derek]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ummmmm, wat.

He's talking in clan assault terms - usually faster clan assaults can survive longer as to slower and heavier ones as if they're caught alone, per say, dire against 3 mechs, it can't escape, it just dies out like a candle. The executioner, however, using it's mobility, can evade them for that many more seconds via MASC, or it's speed itself, and hopefully back to it's team to live.

That's just one scenario though. A whole lot could happen many different ways.

[Lucian Nostra]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

The Kingfisher actually has good hardpoints for a big ballistic + laser vomit, its limiter is, as you have said many times, the 24 tons of podspace, but it does have 17 DHS locked in, which most Clan builds use at least that many anyway.

The ECM and tankiness should be its selling points, and it still brings enough firepower to kill things, even if it is comparable to a Timber Wolf.

I can't be the only one that wants a nice tanky Clan assault with a few high hardpoints and ECM (likely now that they have the reinforcement packs, if PGI wants to make money they will put that in there).

I still think that the Kingfisher F is super pipe-dreamy to expect. Literally mech pack. Prime, A, B. reinforcements pack C and D. all feature tech they don't have to replace and is a far more likely scenario than PGI picking the F giving the clans an ECM 90 tonner and also changing the HAG to a Gauss. Russ said he'd rather not swap tech when he has the option to take other variants. I think before you said two variants where similar so you think they'd skip it for the F but we have lots of omnis with similar layouts variant to variant.

I dunno if I'd keep trying to pitch "Tanky assault with high mounts and ECM" when it's far more likely not to have ECM

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Scout Derek, on 08 April 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

He's talking in clan assault terms - usually faster clan assaults can survive longer as to slower and heavier ones as if they're caught alone, per say, dire against 3 mechs, it can't escape, it just dies out like a candle.

Except even then, prior to the rebalance, the Dire was the only thing that mattered outside the Stalker on occasion.

[Gyrok]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 April 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

Except even then, prior to the rebalance, the Dire was the only thing that mattered outside the Stalker on occasion.

Solo queue mentality versus group.

Group queue assaults mattered because they were supported properly.

Solo queue...well...PUG Lyfe and all that...

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 08 April 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

I still think that the Kingfisher F is super pipe-dreamy to expect. Literally mech pack. Prime, A, B. reinforcements pack C and D. all feature tech they don't have to replace and is a far more likely scenario than PGI picking the F giving the clans an ECM 90 tonner and also changing the HAG to a Gauss. Russ said he'd rather not swap tech when he has the option to take other variants. I think before you said two variants where similar so you think they'd skip it for the F but we have lots of omnis with similar layouts variant to variant.

I dunno if I'd keep trying to pitch &quot;Tanky assault with high mounts and ECM&quot; when it's far more likely not to have ECM

The A and D literally offer nothing new so why would the release them? I don't think it's that pipe dreamy.

Seriously, look at the hardpoints, A and D offer nothing at all. It would be really stupid to drop both of those instead of the F. Like they aren't similar, there is literally nothing to them, look at them.