73 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Jenner: Oxide only has 4 weapon hard points because PGI thought that a Mech with Streak SRM10 would be overpowered...

Well, we have Clan SSRM6 platforms in the game now, so the Jenner can be unnerfed as far as I am concerned. Anyone else think it should get an additional Missile hard point on each arm so it can carry 6 SRM2 as a load out? Or even 5 Streak 2's...?

I don't really subscribe to the notion that SSRM10 should be banned from Inner Sphere Mechs, in light of the Clan's ability to put SSRM6 on a single hard point.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 March 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Adiuvo]

The Oxide moves the same speed as other lights. That makes SSRMs infinitely more annoying than the Stormcrow would be. Shaking one off due to lack of JJs isn't possible on many maps.

[Soy]

Can you still run a COM-2D and fling chained streaks to juggle lock someone ala screen shake?

That was always hilarious.

You only needed 3x ssrm2s to do it... maybe nowadays you can get by with 2 and a SL, if the cooldown 5 lowers cycle time on ssrm2s enough..?

I've ran a plopnflop version on a Mist Lynx a couple rounds while drunk, felt like it was almost the same thing as back then, but not quite.

Edited by Soy, 04 March 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[FupDup]

It was actually 6 Streaks, not 5.

Anyways, the elephant in the room here isn't the number of Streaks a mech packs, it's just the way Streaks are implemented in the first place. They're currently a binary all-or-nothing weapon that is crazy in some situations and totally horrible in others.

This is due primarily to their targeting mechanism that almost randomly assigns where the missiles hit, so targets with lower durability don't see much of a difference while targets with high durability are basically tickled by it. Also related is the difficulty or lack thereof of getting a missile lock compared to aiming at a specific hitbox (locks can be acquired on any body part and it won't currently make a difference).

They just need to be reprogrammed to home in on where the reticule is being pointed, so that they have consistent performance in more situations. Then we can figure out if they're OP/UP/fine for reals, and adjust things like range/cooldown/damage/heat/lockon/etc. as needed.

Edited by FupDup, 04 March 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[Soy]

I don't see why TAG doesn't make Streaks go at specific components........................... does it...?

I dunno, I don't play/encounter that wep much.

Meh.

[FupDup]

Soy, on 04 March 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

I don't see why TAG doesn't make Streaks go at specific components........................... does it...?

I dunno, I don't play/encounter that wep much.

Meh.

It doesn't at the moment. The component getting hit is determined by RNJesus and how much he loves you or not.

[Mcgral18]

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 04 March 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

It doesn't at the moment. The component getting hit is determined by RNJesus and how much he loves you or not.

Well, it's that or if the target is another Jenner. In which case, you would wish the Jenner-K had a Magic Jesus Box.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 March 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[627]

compared to the hugginn the oxide is still a joke. the raven even has jumpjets while only one other raven has them. but all jenners have those but not the oxide. and the quirks for the hugginn are insanely good while the oxide is mediocre at best. haven't seen one for ages...

I'm all for an 6xSRM2boat, and unlock JJs.

[Bigbacon]

IS SSRMs are complete junk anyway. they need their 5 damage back and they need to stop only going for arms and legs.

Not saying clans are any better... can blow through 100 rounds on a fire starter and it keeps on going and LOLing the whole time.

[CDLord HHGD]

Sure, give it another missile hardpoint or two in the CT, or arms, or wherever. Mounting those racks will cost tonnage so a reduction in armor or speed would be seen. Especially with streaks + BAP.

And nothing is more annoying that a streak boat SCR or TBR. Nothing. Well, maybe a streak boat SMN......

[Deathlike]

With the quirks, the Huginn is a better SRM boat than the Oxide.

Who would have thought that possible before the quirks?

Poor Oxide.

[Mad Porthos]

The oxide Jenner was even commented on by Russ Bullock as being under powered last year and he asked in the community what they thought should be done about it. I know that thread is still somewhere on these forums, but I think due to a lack of consistent replies on it it has fallen into the background and he has not worked any further on the matter. I would think that they hoped that the QUIRKS (edit: auto correct made Quirks into "crooks", weird, had to fix ) would make this Mech shine or at least not suck so badly - but that has failed in most cases. some pilots can get good work out of it due to scale experience and good support which artificially makes it seem of a better tier, since those who make it work are playing in hard mode, as it were.

All of the suggestions given by the community were not put into place, for the oxide - not the 2 more missile hard points, not the idea of a single CT energy hard point for tag, not two jump jets, nor even the idea of a higher engine capacity, to make up for the scarcity of hard points and lack of jump jets. The problem was acknowledged, confirmed - then forgotten. It was even stated the mech initially HAD 6 missile hard points and like OP said, fear of the streak meta took those two away away, despite the fact that the change in streak targetting to be random was more than enough and came in right around then.

Unfortunately, all putting those 2 back would do is make a poor streak boat as the jenner oxide is already tonnage starved running 4x ssrm2 and a BAP. Switching targeting so that a tag could designate a component still would not help as the Oxide still has no hard point for tag, and the suggestions of jump jets, or higher engine cap in order to get more mobility and minimize the exposure of the huge jenner ct ... never came to be. Campaign for this mech, only chance it has of being redeemed for more casual players.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 04 March 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

My simplest suggestion was to just put CT energy weapons... if at least 1.

It's not even a complicated thing either outside of getting the legomech-dynamic visual hardpoint stuff done.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 March 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[TercieI]

Why does everybody think more launchers is that big a help? Mine is running SRM16 and 5 tons of ammo. I do run out in good matches, and that's with armor cheats and an XL280. So 13 tons of equipment. What would more hard points get you? Less ammo on more launchers? SSRM12 would weigh 10.5 tons before ammo, once you include required BAP. SSRM10 would be 9. So you could have four tons of ammo. That maybe works, but with IS streaks at 2.0 damage and scattering... Yuck. It's pretty ok right now for what it is. It maybe could use a little help, but I don't see how more hardpoints would be it. I'd find half a ton for a JJ though...

Edited by Terciel1976, 04 March 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Deathlike]

Terciel1976, on 04 March 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

Why does everybody think more launchers is that big a help? Mine is running SRM16 and 5 tons of ammo. I do run out in good matches, and that's with armor cheats and an XL280. So 13 tons of equipment. What would more hard points get you? Less ammo on more launchers? SSRM12 would weigh 10.5 tons before ammo, once you include required BAP. SSRM10 would be 9. So you could have four tons of ammo. That maybe works, but with IS streaks at 2.0 damage and scattering... Yuck. It's pretty ok right now for what it is. It maybe could use a little help, but I don't see how more hardpoints would be it. I'd find half a ton for a JJ though...

We need 14E hardpoints like the Nova. IT MUST BE DONE!!!!11!

Sometimes what it is and where it is placed makes all the difference in the end...

[TercieI]

Deathlike, on 04 March 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

We need 14E hardpoints like the Nova. IT MUST BE DONE!!!!11!

Sometimes what it is and where it is placed makes all the difference in the end...

Yeah. Move those arm hardpoints to the STs and then we can talk. Tighter convergence and strippable arms, it'll be closer to the Huginn (and I don't think it's as far behind as many do, even personally preferring it).

[JediPanther]

Prosperity Park, on 04 March 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

The Jenner: Oxide only has 4 weapon hard points because PGI thought that a Mech with Streak SRM10 would be overpowered...

Four hardpoints is more than enough for the Oxide to do a lot of damage. I made a build speciffically for hunting direwolves and my unit has adopted it with the name I've given it. "The Harpoon." Two direct hits on a direwolve's reat torso will kill it asuming hitreg doesn't f**k you over. 43 alpha with 47% cooling. Add on the level five cool down and range mods and you are scary.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2a69336cc91c551

[Bigbacon]

Mad Porthos, on 04 March 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

The oxide Jenner was even commented on by Russ Bullock as being under powered last year and he asked in the community what they thought should be done about it. I know that thread is still somewhere on these forums, but I think due to a lack of consistent replies on it it has fallen into the background and he has not worked any further on the matter. I would think that they hoped that the QUIRKS (edit: auto correct made Quirks into "crooks", weird, had to fix ) would make this Mech shine or at least not suck so badly - but that has failed in most cases. some pilots can get good work out of it due to scale experience and good support which artificially makes it seem of a better tier, since those who make it work are playing in hard mode, as it were.

All of the suggestions given by the community were not put into place, for the oxide - not the 2 more missile hard points, not the idea of a single CT energy hard point for tag, not two jump jets, nor even the idea of a higher engine capacity, to make up for the scarcity of hard points and lack of jump jets. The problem was acknowledged, confirmed - then forgotten. It was even stated the mech initially HAD 6 missile hard points and like OP said, fear of the streak meta took those two away away, despite the fact that the change in streak targetting to be random was more than enough and came in right around then.

Unfortunately, all putting those 2 back would do is make a poor streak boat as the jenner oxide is already tonnage starved running 4x ssrm2 and a BAP. Switching targeting so that a tag could designate a component still would not help as the Oxide still has no hard point for tag, and the suggestions of jump jets, or higher engine cap in order to get more mobility and minimize the exposure of the huge jenner ct ... never came to be. Campaign for this mech, only chance it has of being redeemed for more casual players.

nothing has SSRM quirks either so it wouldn't hurt it if they did it. more range, more cooldown, maybe faster missiles even. I wouldn't mind seeing someting quirked for IS SSRM

[Johny Rocket]

I bought the Jenner pack because I love the JR7-F/D I wanted the Champ version, I saw the oxide and first thought, A jenner with Jumpjets? But I thought hey why not. It's a tug and way under powered, Not happy with the game play, even more unhappy I spent real money on it.
The JR7-F(C) is all I already knew it was, stupid fast and with a little work I got 2 erLL on it, to go with the advanced zoom. Running up and blasting an assault mech and running away is the obvious, both lasers in the arms, so flying up and using armlock toggle to go for close range head shots is fun and smart. Good hill sniper to.

Please give us a few more slots on the Oxide.