43 replies to this topic

[Kael Posavatz]

Changing the spawn points for Alpine Peaks-Skirmish, does not seem to have had a noticeable effect. Most players are so conditioned that they are incapable of not going for the central mountain.

[Dee Eight]

Morons insist on fighting over moron mountain... however only complete morons will then follow the other team of morons up the damn mountain. Myself I will go elsewhere on the map and make the enemy come hunt me on terrain I have chosen, that is outside the range of moron mountain snipers. Its a big map, lots of places to fight that even a quirk and module boosted gauss cannot reach. Just go off as a team elsewhere...eventually the morons on the mountain have to come to you prevent the game ending in a tie. And since the max artillery/airstrike marker range is 2500 meters.... and light morons like to park at the top of the highest peak... hit them with repeated barrages and you can get the all important kill which gives you the game lead on time-out.

[JigglyMoobs]

The spawn point changes are what's moronic.

The peak is still the central high point of the map. The team spawning near the mountain need only walk up it to gain the absolute initiative, and see any possible move the other team makes. The only thing the other team can do is to back off and establish a standoff.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 24 March 2016 - 08:23 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Well that's your opinion, but apparently its not shared by everyone since more often than not the people dropping on the map are shifting tactics already away from the mountain. Myself I've always been fond of the ridge line at H4. Nice narrow ridge to stand on, affords a great view over half the map, and is largely out of range of moron mountain.

[Modo44]

**** map is ****. Devs listen and try to delete it when a reworking is not feasible. Community cries to leave the "beauty" alone. Map stays. Community cries because **** map is, you guessed it, still ****. Welcome to the wonderful world of free to play.

Edited by Modo44, 25 March 2016 - 02:31 AM.

[Solarise]

Tier 1 versus tier 5 XD

[Nightshade24]

JigglyMoobs, on 25 March 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

That's because you are Tier 5. Not only do you not really know how to play, you are playing against other people who have just barely scratched the surface of the game.

Take the same tactics to my tier and you get creamed, 12-0.

Tier 5's get in the same matches as tier 3's. and tier 3's is the hard majority of the playerbase as well as the 'average' player in terms of statistics. It's hard to be a complete 'noob' in MW: O. You will always see people who know what they are doing.

[Kurbeks]

+1 to deleting this map

[Barkem Squirrel]

In skirmish the few times I have even seen alpine peaks since the movement of the spawn points, I have seen a trend to fight lower or draw the fight lower. Sure if you can get a light or two up near the peak for spotting the other teams movement it is great.

More time is needed, but it forces the use of the lower area of the map, you know that area where no one went before.

One thing that people fail to notice, teams were not using the hill all the time and sometimes going around the bottom to attack the other team.

You can not say that the map does not look good, it is just the way the herd likes to play it. Some of the best game play is on the edges to the upper right to the upper left and an area in the lower left. Jump into those hills and you can hide a company of direwhales. Fast mediums and lights excel in these area.

There is one game play mode that really does not use much of the map like before, conquest. This map is fun as hell with that game mode. Tight infighting and you have to move and maneuver or else you will die.

Sometimes I watch players say follow me, and the first thing is NO!!!!!!!!!. There is a murder line set up and you are walking right into them. This map is one of the most unforgiving to that aspect along with you are out in the open with a Griffin staring you in the face at 1100m. What do you do when he starts LRMing you. Continue. back off or get into cover. I have killed assault lances this way, not trying to kill them, just keep them occupied and away from the main fight on my own. Even the ERLL ravens and other light snipers can do the same thing. Most players in the PUG drops will chase the first mech spotted. Other will wander off on their own (and find a light mouse pack) or walk directly into those murder lines. Few will go for a flanking position. It has always been interesting to see how people react when the Command console, BAP and advance sensor range allows for targeting out to 1250 m.

Now everything in group matches, just throw every thing above out the window. So much can be accredited to effective communications.

[JigglyMoobs]

The problem is the new setup in skirmish makes it too unforgiving to the lowland team.

The mountain team sees everything from their vintage point. Any time anyone on lowland team dies anything dumb, people take notice and really make them pay for it.

So, scramble onto the mountain, and even if the other team doesn't come up the mountain, you get a serious information and initiative advantage.

The mountain itself is actually really fun to fight on, up or down, but many people don't know how.

There were actually two main problems with the old setup.

1. The assaults sometimes spawned at the furthest point from the mountain, making the team very difficult to coordinate in a pug. this could have been solved by just spawning assaults closer.

2. there was not enough cover in the middle of the slope. The team going up the mountain didn't know how to handle that. a slight reshaping of the terrain could have solved that problem.

Even with the spawn point screwup, people in t1-3 seem to like the map, a lot. In my experience it almost always wins map votes.

One reason I vote for it is that its a total change of pace from the other maps.

[Gas Guzzler]

JigglyMoobs, on 25 March 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

That's because you are Tier 5. Not only do you not really know how to play, you are playing against other people who have just barely scratched the surface of the game.

Take the same tactics to my tier and you get creamed, 12-0.

LOL. Well put good sir. Maybe now that he has heard it from someone else he will understand?

JigglyMoobs, on 25 March 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

The problem is the new setup in skirmish makes it too unforgiving to the lowland team.

The mountain team sees everything from their vintage point. Any time anyone on lowland team dies anything dumb, people take notice and really make them pay for it.

So, scramble onto the mountain, and even if the other team doesn't come up the mountain, you get a serious information and initiative advantage.

The mountain itself is actually really fun to fight on, up or down, but many people don't know how.

There were actually two main problems with the old setup.

1. The assaults sometimes spawned at the furthest point from the mountain, making the team very difficult to coordinate in a pug. this could have been solved by just spawning assaults closer.

2. there was not enough cover in the middle of the slope. The team going up the mountain didn't know how to handle that. a slight reshaping of the terrain could have solved that problem.

Even with the spawn point screwup, people in t1-3 seem to like the map, a lot. In my experience it almost always wins map votes.

One reason I vote for it is that its a total change of pace from the other maps.

Pretty much. The main issue was DEFINITELY that one lance that spawned a couple miles away, and the fact that in solo queue, that is where the fatties spawned. That was the single greatest issue with it. Also agree with the reshaping of the terrain on the hill.

[JigglyMoobs]

Nightshade24, on 25 March 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Tier 5's get in the same matches as tier 3's. and tier 3's is the hard majority of the playerbase as well as the 'average' player in terms of statistics. It's hard to be a complete 'noob' in MW: O. You will always see people who know what they are doing.

Yes but too often the t3s he's playing against are being driven nuts by their t4 t5 teammates.

Dee Eight hasn't played enough games where cat herding is not the team's number one problem. XD

[Shadey99]

Nightshade24, on 25 March 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Tier 5's get in the same matches as tier 3's. and tier 3's is the hard majority of the playerbase as well as the 'average' player in terms of statistics. It's hard to be a complete 'noob' in MW: O. You will always see people who know what they are doing.

From what I've seen the tier's all sort of have their own personality. I was actually not able to play MWO during the launch of tiers and my amount of time to play is erratic, so it's taken awhile to move up the tiers, to where I am in Tier 2 right now. Yet as I was moving up the tiers each certainly had a distinct pattern. Tier 5 is like free for all lack of tactics. Tier 4 is actually cowardly as people have learned their mechs are fragile and shy away from direct contact. Tier 3 finally has the feel of a typical combat mix. And Tier 2 is the point where very small mistakes have big impacts. It's also where I've seen some of the quickest and earliest charges ever to the point of teams being barely out of their starting area to get hit hard by the enemy team in their face.

The MM at least sometimes tries to find people as close to matching tiers as possible, though sometimes people get unlikely like this guy the other night who had his first tier 3 game with at least a few of us tier 2's in it. Though often you don't know the mix unless someone says something.

As for Alpine... One team usually takes the hill still, because it's a strong tactical position and if used well or if the enemy can't push well enough... Then it's a deciding spot on the map. So even with the changes one team usually gets the hill early. Some teams try to go south and fight the back side of the hill, to mixed results (and a strong desire from me to remove my cockpit consoles so I can actually see what I can shoot at with my arms). Other teams take the fight north and make the enemy come to them as much as possible, sniping from the ridge line where it can see onto the hill. Which is pretty much the same as before.

Domination and conquest get the fighting off the mountain since the points you need to fight over are not on the mountain, so you can't take a defensive stance there. In fact domination is horrible for the mountain team, since they lack good cover all the way down that hill. Conquest is arguably the most equal since three spots are right next to each other and so the fighting comes down to who can hold them among the valleys there.

[Dee Eight]

Ahhh yes...discount someone based on their tier...nothing at all wrong with your attitudes or thinking... in a game where the PSR is heavily biased towards damage output and not actually game objectives. Tell me Oh great Tier 1 player... how many games does one have to play for them to know how to play the game ?

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 March 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Dee Eight, on 25 March 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Tell me Oh great Tier 1 player... how many games does one have to play for them to know how to play the game ?

There are two answers to this.

To other people, that time is when you can discuss the game with them and put forth ideas that demonstrate actual sound judgment regarding game strategy and tactics. I've seen people get there in their second week playing the game. Their badge may say t5, but you know their head is 8n the right place and they will be a respected opponent or teammate when you start seeing them in a couple of months, or even less.

From your perspective, The answer is when you start applying your ideas about strategy in the game and seeing that they are consistently helping you win more than you lose as you move up tier after tier.

[Dee Eight]

Ahhh... avoiding my question by trying to answer like a politician... good plan. So why then Oh Great Tier 1 player is my judgement of using the rest of the map to dictate how I fight the game unsound, instead of doing the mindless sheep thing of fighting only on the center mountain ? Clearly my thinking is mirrored by the PGI programmers as they moved the spawn points around.

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 March 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Dee Eight, on 25 March 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Ahhh... avoiding my question by trying to answer like a politician... good plan. So why then Oh Great Tier 1 player is my judgement of using the rest of the map to dictate how I fight the game unsound, instead of doing the mindless sheep thing of fighting only on the center mountain ? Clearly my thinking is mirrored by the PGI programmers as they moved the spawn points around.

you've already missed 2 important points.

1. the mountain is a highly advantageous starting point even if you don't fight on the mountain.

2. -your- idea may be to fight in way A but your teammates may want to fight in way B. the team occupying the mountain can spot every instance of A diverging from B and punish you severely for it.

All you are left with is the feeble recourse of blaming your teammates, which you did, as the preamble to your original post. -That- is not the way to win friends and influence people, LOL.

the rest you can find out if you move up the tiers. meanwhile we've done the experiments in tiers 1-3 and found the new spawn highly biased for skirmish.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 25 March 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Dee Eight]

I'm not here to win friends. I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ***. And I am all out of bubblegum. And for that matter only a small percentage of players use the forums, so I'm not particularly concerned with the complaints of Tier 1 primadonnas who cannot adapt to the new reality of the game.

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 March 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Michal R]

With the new spawn points. Alpine is ok. But most of the idiots goes to the FK hill and die one by one.
New spawn points forcing to fight somewhere else. But peoples don't understand it and goes to the hill like FK lemmings.
Because they do this all the time before patch.

FK idiot. Thats all.

Edited by Michal R, 25 March 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[tokumboh]

I think spawn point will not change people approaches to how they try and win.Only match objectives will. The mountain top is a clear advantage even for people short to medium range builds. Unless you get rid of the mountain it will always be the case. Yes Domination make the whole map very different and conquest is also great since you can just camp and poke you have to capture points.

The good news is that people hate it and so it might get changed.I wish they had replaced it with PH as originally intended.

As to the Tier 5 versus Tier 1 **** I have seen poor players in higher tiers. The point the guy was making was that the spawns were not really making a big difference in many matches and yes it is clear why. it is not a Tier issue so there is no need to make it one