99 replies to this topic

[Hawk819]

KingCobra, on 19 December 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I cant tell you how fun it was to play MechWarrior2-Mechwarrior4 Mercenaries with my joysticks and my favorite one that never let me down in thousands of online battles my Logitech 3D Pro. its to bad MWO is not run on a analog joystick setup the Crytek =(Cry me a river) engine MWO is run on was originally designed just for digital inputs so it could be coded for PC or Xbox/ETC.

Link to us playing MechWarrior4 Mercenaries with joysticks

http://www.youtube.c...ss?feature=mhee

If Bryan is right, and I did ask, the return of the Joystick may come about in MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries. Cause if so, I'm breaking out my own 3D Pro, and I'm going to rock someone's ***.

[KingCobra]

Hawk819 said (If Bryan is right, and I did ask, the return of the Joystick may come about in MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries. Cause if so, I'm breaking out my own 3D Pro, and I'm going to rock someone's ***. )

you got that right ))))))))))) and we will all buy and send Brian a 6 pack of Mickey Big Mouths Beer if it comes true.

Edited by KingCobra, 19 December 2016 - 01:14 PM.

[Jaak77]

Here is a different setup. Its part of a Thrustmaster flight sim controller + Mouse and I just put the joystick out of the way. Steering, throttle, jumpjets, targeting, ptt, module1, module2, night vision, thermal, and overide. are all operated on that left controller.



Here is a closeup of the paddle used for steering, its on the front of the throttle.




Edit: switched a few and added arm lock after reading more of this post.

Edited by Jaak77, 25 December 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[Kwea]

Lightfoot, on 01 June 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Disagree. Joystick gives greater accuracy if it's a good one. Mouse is fast to aim, but also takes more work to maintain the aim. Joystick is far superior for piloting the mech, especially while shooting. I don't want to turn this into a joystick debate, but you don't know how good a joystick can be if you don't put some effort into learning it. Joysticks were poorly supported at first in MWO and most just gave up on it in order to be able to aim, but this is no longer true.
.

I used one, and was good at it. You are still SOOOO wrong.

[Major Tomm]

I used a joystick in MechWarrior 4 and liked it a lot.

Edited by Major Tomm, 28 December 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Kwea, on 26 December 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

I used one, and was good at it. You are still SOOOO wrong.

Maybe it's the capabilities of the T-16000m that are giving me the great results with MWO. The stick position is tracked on a magnetic grid and is very smooth, precise. The profiler for the stick is TARGET which allows you to set dead zones and response curves and much more. I had been using the Logitech 3D Pro and it was not nearly as accurate, but it finally broke.


Just saying if you have a stick with good tracking and good profiler, MWO can support it well.

[Mawai]

OZHomerOZ, on 24 October 2016 - 02:13 AM, said:

To get maximum turnage from your joystick you have to mash it to one side quickly.
Slower than pressing a button on a keyboard which has maximum turnage at all times.

True. However, most of the time when I want to track a moving target either to lead it or to maximize damage on a specific component from DOT weapons then I don't want maximum turnage ... I want the turnage to match the movement of my target which is a capability provided by a joystick and not a mouse.


-------------------------------- Quote ---------------------------
If you are turning your legs and shooting mechs at the same time, then your aim has to correct for four variables:

- your heading and speed
- your turn rate
- your enemy's heading and speed
- any unpredictable evasive actions from your enemy


If you want to make aiming easier, you eliminate some of those variables. Such as ...

- shooting a stationary target
- being completely stationary while shooting
- not turning your legs while shooting
---------------- End Quote ---------------------------------

1) Shooting a stationary target isn't up to you ... it is up to your opponent. Most of your smart opponents don't stop but if someone gives you the shot by all means take it.
2) Being completely stationary ... see #1 ... generally a bad idea
3) Not turning your legs while shooting ... works somewhat for arm mounted weapons ... doesn't work at all for torso mounted weapons unless you are running directly at an opponent who is stationary (see #1) or who is running directly at you (also not a bright move). If you want to hit a target with torso mounted weapons then you have to turn your legs ... end of story ... unless of course you are both effectively stationary (see #1 and #2).


Also, fairly frequently, the rate of angular traverse of close targets will exceed the ability of your arms to track and again you will need to change torso direction to assist with both arm and torso aiming.

Personally, for MWO, I have only ever used a keyboard and mouse ... the one attempt I had a couple of years ago to use a joystick didn't work out. However, in my opinion, the joystick does provide a greater level of precision control when properly implemented since it allows for a range of inputs in rotation speeds rather than a strict digital on/off functionality provided by the keyboard.

Also, in MWO, the aim point lags the mouse ... it isn't as if the mouse provides instantaneous target tracking since the aim point responds based on the mouse input and arm movement capability of the mech.

Edited by Mawai, 30 December 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[Afr0Thund3r]

Ok, you can say you prefer joysticks and they're more comfortable, but don't get all extreme and ignore the benefits of mouse playing. It's honestly the reason I stopped playing War Thunder, mouse aiming was just too accurate and I REFUSED to play that game with a mouse. I redownloaded this game to test out my joystick actually, worked great, but not as good as a mouse was for straight up aiming.

1st post!

Edited by Afr0Thund3r, 04 January 2017 - 12:08 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

I've got a good idea. How about we coordinate all the desire for improved joystick implementation and try to make sure it is an issue brought up at the next round table.

This way everyone will have their preferred controller style available to them and people will not try to convince others that their blind description of the elephant is more correct than the other.

[anoc betor]

Hope it's no too derailing from the latest posts on this topic, but I haven't seen anyone mention this...

The first Battletech video game was in 1989 at a dedicated "Battletech Center" in Chicago, which had full-on cockpits. Prior to this, the game only existed as tabletop.

They were strikingly similar to the cockpits currently animated in MWO. There were pedal rudders, a left hand throttle, and a right hand joystick. There was a smaller monitor at waste level that could be toggled between radar or your mech silhouette as damage indication. It also had tons of dedicated buttons for weapons & weapon grouping assignments.

My cousin, brother, and I used to save up for Friday evening games at North Pier where the center was located. It was always a super amazing experience, especially considering there weren't any PVP or LAN video games before then. One time we even played with Kurt Russell and his stepdaughter, Kate Hudson, who was just a little kid at the time. I later found out he was in town filming "Backdraft".

I found a video of it, it was weird seeing it again after all these years. At about 3 minutes in, you can see the cockpits and controls:



Supposedly there were more that opened up in Japan. It was only around a few years, but it was great times while it lasted.

I have to believe every Battletech/Mechwarrior video game since has based the controls (at least in lore) on the way they were set up at the Battletech Center. There were actual physical controls that preceded them all. Those were the earliest (and most traditional) Mechwarrior controllers. :-)

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Modern 1 person Jets using Joysticks and not mouse and Keyboards ? why ? its better to control the most of the primary Functions with the dominated Brainside/Arm and fingers, as with both hands ...Multitasking is a Myth

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 September 2018 - 06:54 AM.

[NAMUK]

use to play the old mech series on a standard joystick then when force feedback was released i got the microsoft force feedback joystick was gutted when they removed the api when gong xp to vista, force feed back made mech games better

[Lightfoot]

You know there might be a core problem with the default set-up of a Joystick in MWO since by default MWO will run Torso-Twist on the X-Axis of the joystick. All previous MechWarrior PC games have had Analog Turn on the stick X-Axis and Torso-Twist on Rot Z. I can't imagine how cumbersome running Mech Turning off stick rotation might be, but perhaps many of the players frustrated with the MWO Joystick never flipped Joystick X Axis to Analog Turn?

[Ridingwolf1]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 05 January 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Modern Jets and Vehicles using Joysticks and not mouse and Keyboards ? why ? its better to control the most of the primary Functions with the dominated Brainside/Arm and fingers, as with both hands ...Multitasking is a Myth

The only current military vehicles that use only a joystick are single pilot jets, and they still use a selection screen with microkeyboard that has a small selection of buttons to select features. The rest don't use joysticks exclusively. The M1A2 Abrams MBT uses a steering wheel similar to the steering wheel used in the old Nightrider TV show. The turret twist is controlled by a joystick, however the fine motor control over the FCS is either done by the computer or with a device similar to a mouse. Tank commanders can select the targets they was fired upon using a joystick, however once again, the fine control is NOT done with a joystick. Please do not get your military vehicle references for fire control systems from television.

[Aescwulf]

I played MW4Mercs over at MekTek with a joystick I was awful at it, but I was having fun. For MWO I use a KB+M.
Each control device has its ups and downs, and that's just the nature of it. If someone is having fun and doing well with a pad or joystick then let them be (although the steam controller would be the best bet for pads). If I had the room I'd use a throttle with a centre indent and a mouse because you can easily go full throttle or quickly change to reverse without having to press x then hold s without throttle decay.

If I was designing a mech cockpit I'd use the jet set up but have like a sensing pad for aiming and have the hotas as general movement that enables the pilot to clutch hold like you would on a roller coaster.

[Wolf 74]

I am hoping that with MW5:Mercs that they bring the game back to being a simulator like all of the other MW series. I did not play MW:Online as it was configured for mouse play and seemed more arcade like to me.

Just bought a new Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS for Dangerous Elite and I'm really hoping to use it with MW5.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:55 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Ridingwolf1, on 08 January 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

The only current military vehicles that use only a joystick are single pilot jets, and they still use a selection screen with microkeyboard that has a small selection of buttons to select features. The rest don't use joysticks exclusively. The M1A2 Abrams MBT uses a steering wheel similar to the steering wheel used in the old Nightrider TV show. The turret twist is controlled by a joystick, however the fine motor control over the FCS is either done by the computer or with a device similar to a mouse. Tank commanders can select the targets they was fired upon using a joystick, however once again, the fine control is NOT done with a joystick. Please do not get your military vehicle references for fire control systems from television.

of Course im thinking only to jets and Helicopters with no second Gunner or Drones

With the joystick, you can simultaneously activate several axes of motion without problems with a simple hand movement and at the same time arm groups with a single hand ... because of the movement axes many keyboard operations with the non-dominant hand are slower, worse to coordinate and with the keyboard and mouse Need to cover several times

PGi now Lightyears away from all first Concepts ...

FP ...and Joystick l...the razor Artemis was only a Joke to found Founder



and Sim or Thinkings Man Shooter

Chris Lowrey in

https://mwomercs.com...ts-and-roadmap/

While we know that Heavy and Assault 'Mechs are often among the most beloved and favorite 'Mechs within the BattleTech community, this favoritism is not one that we on the balance team can feed into when it comes to balancing the 'Mechs against one another within the context of a PvP first person shooter.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 September 2018 - 08:36 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Wolf 74, on 16 April 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

I am hoping that with MW5:Mercs that they bring the game back to being a simulator like all of the other MW series. I did not play MW:Online as it was configured for mouse play and seemed more arcade like to me.

Just bought a new Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS for Dangerous Elite and I'm really hoping to use it with MW5.

I'm using the throttle and pedals in MWO right now, with mouse for aiming. Pedals are a little too imprecise for steering, so I just use the mini stick on the throttle to turn. It works pretty well!

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 15 September 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[HARDKOR]

Currently using an ELECOM HUGE trackball for aim, and an X52 throttle to drive.

If what you guys are saying about the game having been tweeked to work with joysticks again, I'm highly tempted to bolt the rest of the X52 onto my desk again.