29 replies to this topic

[TELEFORCE]

Crotch RockIt, on 08 April 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

Going by TELEFORCE's link, starred mechs could get a 10% loyalty boost. Mechs on the faction list without a star could get a 5% boost. Mechs not on the list would not get a boost.

It appears that 'mechs with the stars appearing in a separate column in their listing on the MUL means they're featured in a certain TRO.

The MUL shows all units available to a faction during a given era.

Example usage:

• Go to home page
  
• Click on "Faction" up top
  
• Select the desired faction (I clicked on the Capellan Confederation)
  
• Select an era on the right side of the faction page (I clicked on Late Succession War (3020-3049)
  
• A list of 'mechs available to the selected faction for the selected era is shown
  
• Tabs above this list allow you to also view other units available to the selected faction for the selected era, such as tanks/APCs, aerospace craft, support vehicles, and wet naval vessels

I suggest playing around with the website a bit. You can search individual units, but I'm not sure how the filters work or if they're even complete. The site is a continuing project run by BattleTech volunteers.

[feeWAIVER]

I did some more digging and found this quote from ice trey, which even breaks down to what mechs should not belong to the Draconis Combine..
So perhaps if some mechs receive a bonus, others would incur a penalty.

I do like the suggestion of reinstating repair and rearm for non-faction flavored mechs.

ice trey, on 20 December 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

I would like to offer a revision to the "Mechs List" in the opening post, if I may.

First, the Dragon and Jenner are well known to be Draconis Combine favorites. The Jenner, however, is not a Combine-exclusive design quite as much as the Dragon, and tends to pop up in other factions, as well. There is no Jenner factory, as it got blown up during the Succession wars. However, there were enough of them produced to still be quite commonplace.
Reference:
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 112

The Quickdraw is another Kurita Heavy. Both the Draconis Combine and Free Worlds League produce it. For the DC, it's produced on Luthien by L.A.W., alongside the Dragon and Charger 1A1.
Reference:
Fasa # 1620 - House Kurita, The Draconis Combine. Page 138

The Atlas, Victor, Marauder, and Jagermech are produced on Quentin by Independence Weaponry. (Fasa # 1623 - Handbook House Davion, page 152) During the War of 3039 in July, it was taken by the 40th Dieron regulars, and has remained in Kuritan hands ever since. It has been instrumental in replenishing lost war material afterwards. By the time of the clan invasion, the Jagermech, Atlas, Marauder, and Victor were considerably more common in the hands of the Combine.
Reference:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 122, 132

The Draconis Combine, thanks to future Coordinator Theodore Kurita, also was able to broker a deal with Comstar that would recognize the autonomy of the Free Rasalhague Republic in exchange for significant military equipment, including Star League era mechs. This influx of equipment was used to outfit the newly created Ghost Regiments. (Applies to multiple mechs, but in this case, the Kintaro, Highlander, and King Crab apply)
Reference:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 21, 148

The Awesome can be readily found in any house military (Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 154), and the Draconis Combine is known for manufacturing excellent PPC and Missile technologies, namely it's Lord Light PPCs. While the Awesome isn't manufactured with Lords Light PPCs, the Combine would be at an advantage to have Awesomes. The Random Assignment Tables in Historical War of 3039 show a comparatively large proportion of Awesomes in their Assault mech rosters, primarily the 8Q, but the 8T also appears.
Reference:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 154


The following quote can be found in the Technical Readout entry for the Hunchback:
"The design is particularly favored by the Draconis Combine
and Capellan Confederation as it fi ts the preferred dueling
nature and all-or-nothing tactics used by these states."
It appears quite frequently in the combines' medium mech roster. Historical 3039 shows the 4G, 4J, and 4P as readily available.
Reference:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 136


The Battlemaster is also a mech that is common among most inner sphere (And even in second-line clan) factions. Again, it appears quite prominently in Draconis Combine tables in Historical 3039 as the 1G configuration, but the upgraded 3S also appears in the tables for Era Report 3052, likely reflecting mechs that have received an upgrade kit.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152


On the TRO page for the Griffin, you can read this excerpt in the deployment section:
"Any major military will have Griffins on their roster.
The Capellan Confederation is the only great House not
manufacturing the design, but they are able to purchase a
limited number from the Taurian Concordat."
It is prominent in the Historical 3039 and Era Report 3052 RATs, as well.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 287


On the TRO page for the Shadow Hawk, it's stated that the Shadow Hawk is available just about everywhere, and even seems to put special emphasis on the 2K variant used by House Kurita's Second Proserpina Hussars.
It is prominent in the Historical 3039 RATs, as well.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 289


On the TRO page for the Wolverine, you can read this excerpt in the deployment section:
"The Federated Suns’ capture of the Capellan’s Nanking
Wolverine line during the Fourth Succession War was off set
by the loss of their own Wolverine line on Marduk to the
Draconis Combine."
It is prominent in the Historical 3039 and Era Report 3052 RATs, as well. Namely the 6R, 6K, and 7K.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 290


The Locust also seems to play a large role in the Draconis Combine military, Cheap and plentiful, the 1V is the most popular, but the 3M, 3V, and 1E also appear to be in the roster.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 281


Another mech that is often listed as a mech available to most everyone, the Orion, appears to play a very large role in the armies of the Draconis Combine prior to the clan invasion. RATs seem to hint (and I conject) that many were lost during the invasion, and were likely replaced with newly built Jagermech, Marauder, Grand Dragon, Mauler, Charger 1A9, and Hatamoto mechs.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 152


While most often seen with the Capellan Confederation, the long out of production and increasingly rare Catapult is somewhat more common than normal in the Draconis Combine, as well.
"The Draconis Combine also obtained a sizable
group when they seized Dieron."
RATs for the era in Historical 3039 show only K2 variants, however, likely meaning that the majority have been converted to carry Kurita-made PPCs.
References:
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 146
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150

The Stalker is also listed as the most common assault mech in the Inner Sphere. It is no exception in Draconis Combine space, making up a significant proportion of the pre-invasion Battlemech roster in the Inner Sphere. 3F is the most popular, but the 3H and 4N also appear.
References:
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, Page 162
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150

The Upcoming Panther is a mech that is extremely linked to the Draconis Combine, arguably even more so than the Dragon. The Grasshopper is readily available in every faction, somewhat significant in the combine's tables, making it an excellent flashbulb mech for the Combine roster.
References:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152
Battletech 35121 - Technical Readout 3039, 114, 151,


The Banshee 3E, Trebuchet, Firestarter, Raven, Thunderbolt, and Cicada are also available, but aren't hugely prominent in the Draconis Combine roster. They can believably be included, but don't play a huge part.
Reference:
Battletech #35014: Historical - War of 3039, Page 150
Battletech #35220: Era Report 3052, Page 152

Thanks to IDG for pointing it out, but the raven was also sold in small numbers to the Combine in order to boost Capellan coffers.

Reference:
Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade[color=#959595], p. 30.[/color]

-------------------------

Alright... how about mechs that are UNLIKELY to be found in the Draconis Combine?

Raven - A tightly guarded Capellan (Liao) secret only just starting manufacture near the 4th succession war. Many became captured by the Federated Suns.

Cataphract - A tightly guarded Capellan (Liao) secret only just starting manufacture near the 4th succession war. Many became captured by the Federated Suns.

Vindicator - a Capellan staple design, but like the Draconis Combine Panther and Dragon, aren't usually seen outside of that faction.

Commando - While it was common in the Draconis Combine during the age of the Star League due to mechs still being relatively new and limited in number (The ubiquitous Jenner and Panther would not be created until close to the fall of the Star League. See production dates shown on the Introductory boxed sets), and it could be captured during raids and taken as battlefield salvage, it hasn't been commonly used by the Combine in an age. The only instance I have found it represented in the Draconis Combine RATs is an RAT shared with the Free Rasalhague Republic - which sports both Kuritan and Steiner mechs. It's safe to recognize that the Commando is a workhorse Lyran (Steiner) light, and doesn't often show up in any other house army.

Blackjack and Centurion - These are both primarily Davion mechs. The few in Kuritan space would be battlefield salvage only.

The upcoming Enforcer is a mech found almost exclusively in Davion space, and is considered one of their trademark designs

The upcoming Zeus is a mech found almost exclusively in Steiner space, and is considered one of their trademark designs


TL;DR:
Definitely Available:
Dragon
Jenner
Spider
Victor
Atlas
Jagermech
King Crab
Highlander
Kintaro
Quickdraw
Hunchback
Orion
Griffin
Shadowhawk
Wolverine
Locust
Awesome
Battlemaster
Catapult
Stalker
Panther
Grasshopper

Could be included
Banshee (3E only)
Trebuchet
Cicada
Thunderbolt
Firestarter
R1

[Bud Crue]

A problem(s) with this idea as I see it is that if you go by the "master list" cited above then darn near any mech is an "appropriate" mech for a loyalist. If you go the faction specific lists that Sarna provides the "appropriate" mechs are extremely limited (see for example: http://www.sarna.net...lic_BattleMechs) and in some cases only a few are in the game. If you go with something else to determine what is appropriate, what would that source be?

Assuming the "appropriate" list is to be very limited, then the problem comes down to one of comparisons and perceived unfairness that these forums (as well as the other online MWO communities) would go nuts over. Example, so you give a bonus to the Ebon Jag for smoke Jaguar players, and a Dragon for the FRR and/or Kurita players, I think it is pretty safe to say the FRR and Kurita folks are gonna feel shafted.

How does PGI balance that? I'll tell ya how I think they would: by giving the loyalty bonus to a "S" (of maybe they would call it an "F" -for Faction) version of mechs no one plays or would want to play in CW. It'll be great.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheCharlatan, on 07 April 2016 - 11:00 PM, said:

Now i'm happy because i discovered that almost all my favourite IS mechs are available to the FRR.

that's because the FRR exists solely on hand me down charity mechs. Though technically, (not that MWO follows this) like 99% of the mechs that were originally available were to the old tech versions.

Congrats for liking your Welfare Cheese, though.

Crotch RockIt, on 08 April 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

Going by TELEFORCE's link, starred mechs could get a 10% loyalty boost. Mechs on the faction list without a star could get a 5% boost. Mechs not on the list would not get a boost.

you do realize that every "base" variant is starred on the list, don't you? Not faction preference?
http://www.masteruni...Id=29&EraId=256

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 April 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Davers, on 07 April 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Yes, there should be more reason to pilot traditional faction mechs. No, PGI will not add any.

wasnt this one of the first lies about CW they threw out there? Back when they said it would be out 90 days after the game launched ....4 years ago

Bud Crue, on 08 April 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

A problem(s) with this idea as I see it is that if you go by the "master list" cited above then darn near any mech is an "appropriate" mech for a loyalist. If you go the faction specific lists that Sarna provides the "appropriate" mechs are extremely limited (see for example: http://www.sarna.net...lic_BattleMechs) and in some cases only a few are in the game. If you go with something else to determine what is appropriate, what would that source be?

Assuming the "appropriate" list is to be very limited, then the problem comes down to one of comparisons and perceived unfairness that these forums (as well as the other online MWO communities) would go nuts over. Example, so you give a bonus to the Ebon Jag for smoke Jaguar players, and a Dragon for the FRR and/or Kurita players, I think it is pretty safe to say the FRR and Kurita folks are gonna feel shafted.

How does PGI balance that? I'll tell ya how I think they would: by giving the loyalty bonus to a "S" (of maybe they would call it an "F" -for Faction) version of mechs no one plays or would want to play in CW. It'll be great.

also; how do you balance the people who bought mechs with irl money? Do they not get access to them in fw? Or all the billionaires/trillionaires who have every mech lol

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 April 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

wasnt this one of the first lies about CW they threw out there? Back when they said it would be out 90 days after the game launched ....4 years ago



also; how do you balance the people who bought mechs with irl money? Do they not get access to them in fw? Or all the billionaires/trillionaires who have every mech lol

Do IS Pilots get to access Clan MEchs just because they bought them with IRL Money? Remember the stinkfest? PGI still said no.

That said, people would still be able to use them, simply not get the LP bonus on them.

[Dawnstealer]

I've tried dropping a "Steiner Loyalist" deck before, but it's not real effective (Atlas, Zeus, Griffon, Commando).

My current deck flops around a little, but currently looks like this:

Marauder, Archer, Warhammer, Blackjack

Fun deck and effective, but not really House loyalist. I guess I can get around it by saying the first three are all ubiquitous to all houses, at least.

[Davers]

Bud Crue, on 08 April 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

A problem(s) with this idea as I see it is that if you go by the "master list" cited above then darn near any mech is an "appropriate" mech for a loyalist. If you go the faction specific lists that Sarna provides the "appropriate" mechs are extremely limited (see for example: http://www.sarna.net...lic_BattleMechs) and in some cases only a few are in the game. If you go with something else to determine what is appropriate, what would that source be?

Assuming the "appropriate" list is to be very limited, then the problem comes down to one of comparisons and perceived unfairness that these forums (as well as the other online MWO communities) would go nuts over. Example, so you give a bonus to the Ebon Jag for smoke Jaguar players, and a Dragon for the FRR and/or Kurita players, I think it is pretty safe to say the FRR and Kurita folks are gonna feel shafted.

How does PGI balance that? I'll tell ya how I think they would: by giving the loyalty bonus to a "S" (of maybe they would call it an "F" -for Faction) version of mechs no one plays or would want to play in CW. It'll be great.

Well, they could have put out mechs keeping 'faction specific' in mind, so there would have been equal variety between the factions. As an IP holder I am sure they would be able to find the official mech lists as well.

If the Dragon was designed more to look like this:



With a high mounted ballistic arm I think it would have been better in MWO.

There is a dichotomy of players in MWO- those that wanted a game truly based on the 30 years of BT lore and wanted to experience warfare in the BT universe, and those who want a competitive shooter with mechs. Since PGI has mostly sided with the later, there is no need to worry about factions, faction balance, or whether all mechs are actually viable. Who cares about all that since you can just cherrypick the good ones and not bother with the bad ones?

Edited by Davers, 08 April 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Davers, on 08 April 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

There is a dichotomy of players in MWO- those that wanted a game truly based on the 30 years of BT lore and wanted to experience warfare in the BT universe, and those who want a competitive shooter with mechs. Since PGI has mostly sided with the later, there is no need to worry about factions, faction balance, or whether all mechs are actually viable. Who cares about all that since you can just cherrypick the good ones and not bother with the bad ones?

I have no problem with it being a "shooter" competitive or otherwise. What I do find annoying to just shy of inexcusable is that this game which does purport to be "a BattleTech game" and which uses the name "Mechwarrior" ought to have at least SOME of the background -lets call it background flavor (lore is too loaded)- of those aforementioned titles as part of this "shooter".

What frustrates me, and I think many others, is it would take next to zero effort on the part of PGI to add a little of this flavor. If they would let us, the community would do it for them. For free. Type in some planet descriptions for CW. Add a text window for each mech cribbed from the TROs. That sort of thing. There is no reason for that stuff not to be in the game given the licensing rights, which PGI has described. I would certainly appreciate more than that sort of thing, but even something so minimal as incorporating some text appears beyond their ability or desire, so its pointless to hope for something more immersive.

As to the present thread, given PGI's apparent disdain of the BT and MW background flavor, I just think if they even bothered with loyalty bonuses (they won't, see above) they would apply it to inappropriate mechs, or put out "faction versions" of generic but sub-standard existing mechs (e.g. the loyalty Wolverine) that every IS faction would get access to (for a fee of course) and provide a similar singular build for the clans. Either way this would defeat the purpose of the bonus as well as having something unique for each faction. No one is going to run a generic substandard build just for the bonus. But that is what I expect they would do in the name of "balance".

Prove me wrong on any of this PGI. I beg you. I will gladly buy all the mech packs you can throw at me if you would prove me wrong.

Edited by Bud Crue, 08 April 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[Crotch RockIt]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 April 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

you do realize that every "base" variant is starred on the list, don't you? Not faction preference?
http://www.masteruni...9&EraId=256

Now I do.