164 replies to this topic

[RavenKnight86]

Yeah that can be annoying. However I know when I drop in group queue with FFI we try to use VOIP to also coordinate with the other groups in our team.

[Rushin Roulette]

You should play more CW and join Clan Wolf... you will really appreciate the IS PUGs a lot more after that experience.

[Khaleb]

i know you from being forced to listen to you for 2 minutes on comms.....
you are not the boss because ure just some sub-average player with a massive ego, this entire thread is not about any useless advice but about showing off your "leadership" skills and complaining that hardly any player pays you any attention, and pretty much telling everyone that does not listen to you that theyre garbage
and you will not tell players like me what you think they should do, and if you try to tell me where i should move MY mech again, you will lose another leg, its that simple

[Pugger]

Khaleb, on 12 April 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

i know you from being forced to listen to you for 2 minutes on comms.....
you are not the boss because ure just some sub-average player with a massive ego, this entire thread is not about any useless advice but about showing off your "leadership" skills and complaining that hardly any player pays you any attention, and pretty much telling everyone that does not listen to you that theyre garbage
and you will not tell players like me what you think they should do, and if you try to tell me where i should move MY mech again, you will lose another leg, its that simple

A Win for Teamwork.

[Marmon Rzohr]

mekabuser, on 11 April 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

That being said, it would be usefull fo be able to reward good commanders so at least there is SOME indication of a persons ability to command...

I'm really glad you mentioned this.

It gives me an idea. There could be an option in the end game score screen to mark someone as "Commander" or "Good Leader" and if a player gets enough such votes (proportional to games played perhaps ?) they get a a badge next to their name and/or their nameplate (the small nameplate that pops up when someone talks) comes up in a different color when they talk on VOIP.

This might make players rally around the calls made by someone bearing the badge because, hey, people gave him/her the votes because he/she commanded well and led them to victory. Chances are they will do the same for you.

(this would only be an option in Solo Q - because there it matters most)

This is inspired by how League of Legends did stuff like this. They gave you the option to mark a player on your team as "Leader", "Teacher" or "Friendly" (those are not the actual titles, I can't remember the real ones, but that's the gist of it) and an enemy player as "Honorable Opponent". Players who got enough votes in a category got a special badge that showed up on the Match Loading screen.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 12 April 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[FrigginEH]

Helene de Montfort, on 08 April 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

You give commands? Sorry, the HQ didn't inform me you were in command

You give commands? Who decided you were qualified?

You give commands? To me? OK you know what mech i'm in, but do you have any idea of my build and playstyle?

You give commands? using voice chat? Sorry, i can't understand your accent (if you are even speaking in a language i know)

You give commands? using voice chat? Sorry, i disabled it, too many wanabee commanders barking orders and starting insulting if things don't go as they planned...

see, this is a poor way to look at it. sure, there are lots of people who want to be boss without the knowledge but leaning towards a negative mindset can only exacerbate the issue. players like this seem so disenchanted that nothing can ever be good enough. if you need to rant, then go ahead, but choose to limit the amount it affects you, and look for something positive to offset the negative. personally, i tend to give people the benefit of the doubt before i decide not to listen to them anymore, and even then there is always a chance they might have some good advice that i should [grudgingly] follow.

honestly, i appreciate veteran players who care enough to help to organize the pugs i'm playing in. i look for it cuz i don't always know what i should be doing and i'd rather have a bad plan then none.

if nobody ever tells you this, here it is: thankyou for caring.

i've only been playing for ~3 months and i'm not clueless but i know organization is better than chaos every time. if i see an assault doing a push i'll back them up if i can, or if i'm in a light i'll try to find a straggler to cripple or eliminate. one of my remaining nooby weaknesses for certain is timing, like Lykaon mentioned a couple pages ago. i just don't know that stuff, although i try to watch other players and glean from them. this is why i go to the forums as well, cuz i'm still all noobalicious and i know there is more to know. so thanks.

have patience, and remember not to take it personal.

[Ari Sempai]

hello, i'm a pugs.
U know why i'm staying to pug's side ?
not english talker, voip poor quality and other pugs insulted via voip.
stop using "pugs" as a description , lot of non english ear pugs as craps player or B-Plug ( u see ) and take it like an insult.

Solution ? reward win and reward teamplay , reward focused fire and shared information. stop rewarding kill or damage so much. ( in fact it's already exist, tune it )

its was a pugs word ( sry i'm not so good with english )

[Rocket2Uranus]

I think its funny because some Pugs don't listen. Some pugs will listen to the worst plan from a guy with a mic.

It's pug. Just roll with it I guess.

[Kotzi]

Easy solution, if you really have to take command in solo queue just asked if it is appreciated at all. If no one answers just save your breath.

[RavenKnight86]

Khaleb, if you think I'm some sub-average player back it up. 1V1 you can choose weight class and map. If you can't back it up please take your negativity elsewhere. Some people have given good advice I've incorporated when I had to solo the past couple nights. Also my calls in group queue netted us a few wins last night. So if you want to continue to flame me at least be man enough to back up your insults.

[ArmandTulsen]

People already hate their bosses and their COs. You think they want to listen to some random a-hole barking orders when they're down to kick back a few beers and shoot stuff?

Maybe you have a whiny, nasal voice or something.

[Rushin Roulette]

Khaleb, on 12 April 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

i know you from being forced to listen to you for 2 minutes on comms.....
you are not the boss because ure just some sub-average player with a massive ego, this entire thread is not about any useless advice but about showing off your "leadership" skills and complaining that hardly any player pays you any attention, and pretty much telling everyone that does not listen to you that theyre garbage
and you will not tell players like me what you think they should do, and if you try to tell me where i should move MY mech again, you will lose another leg, its that simple

See... this is the reason why so many people view PUG as beign a negative thing... Dont tell me what to do. Ill do my thing and I dont care if the rest of the team looses because of that. PUG only means pick up group... nothing negative to it at all.. untill such pugs show a repeated amount of idiocy that the name itself is degraded as a whole.
One reason why I really hate playing on the clan side is this type of mentality. We had 2 games in a row yesterday with each having 4 CGB puggies in them and from those 8 different players only 2 of them actually played with the rest of us organised players.
1 actually said "stop talking I dont want to hear you" after listening to our commander BEFORE the first enemy contact while he was trying to explain the strategy so that they would know what we were about to do.
1 player bought LRMs in all 4 waves and just sat back at maximum range being useless
2 players (one in each map) just ignored everything around them and solo derped into the enemy each time without waiting for the rest of the team and surprizingly enough were already dead when the rest of us still had 2 fresh mechs in the dropship (one of them survived an extra round... only because he had a longer DC before his Direwhale dropped out of the ship).
The rest of them were also not spectacular and did not manage to to break 500 damage over 4 mechs.

The IS players complain about the Davion pugs (The organised Davionites are good players and fun to play with and against though)...and I agree with them if you compare them to pugs from other IS factions. But even they are few and far between... the clan side seems to have them in droves. Someone please tell me that Im the only one who is experiencing this level of stupidity and egocentrical solo play here .

tl;dr
Out of 8 separate CGB pugs yesterday, only 2 were good, worked together with the team and this showed in their damage/kill and match scores at the end. The rest were useless baggage who needed the rest of the team to carry them.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 13 April 2016 - 09:00 PM.

[EurakaLi]

Lykaon, on 08 April 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

Excellent point. An important skill is to speak clearly,confidently and above all professionally. If someone executes an order successfully reinforce this good behavior.If they screw up a free lunch...well best not to say anything.

As for considering team weapon loadouts. An LRM boat should support a push order when given. There is a difference between a push forward command and an order into close melee. If the forward ellements of a company advance they are taking the fight to the enemy. The brawlers are going to close and most deffinatley get direct LOS to targets.

If the LRM boats stay lagging behind several things are not going right.

1) The LRM boats are left vulnerable to skirmishers because they are far from the support of the advancing team.

2) The battle lines are about to get very close allowing for clear LOS to targets and a closer LRM boat will hit targets faster due to not having to lob ordnance further than 400m.

3) Not being on or near the line of battle means there are fewer targets for the enemy to get confused with.It's much easier for the enemy to accidently focus fire when they have a couple of targets to cycle through.It's much harder when there are several targets. The LRM boat should be targetable but not hittable during this phase of a push. Basically move along behind the big mechs like Kingcrabs and Direwolves using them to block for you. Do not tailgate them though/Leave breathing room in the event of a sudden need to reverse.Remember an LRM carrier can lob shots over a front line and this is an excellent means of improving the number of mechs capable of engaging.

Likewise a mech that was designed for the hide and poke game should also advance with the push. Nobody should expect the Gauss sniper to close to knife fight range but,following the push into the close combat allows you to sweep wide and engage flanks of enemy mechs that are engaged in close quarters brawling. If you stayed in the back you would have had a harder time shooting past the brawl.Following into the brawl allows for close fire support from a flank.And of course provides more targets to lessen the incidental focus fire on your team mates.

Honestly most of the pug queue issues is because of "PUGS" and by that a general lack of trust or expectation of mutual support is the issue. A group of players in a coordinated group expect this support and bank on it.Puggies however are not so quick to expect the guy next to them to have their backs,most of the time they expect them to shoot their backs.

as a player play a lot LRM boat I will very happy to see a actual PUSH signal in my team.I often go behide them a bit and moving in between cover draw a bit of fire power to me and allow my lock on target plus tag to rolling in c-bill
most often lead to we winning the match due to follwing reason(i guess)
1)close range lrm support hurt(600m to 180m i consider close enough with somer quirk in lrm speed) all depend on the map layout.
2)you get close enough to shoot other weapons when needed,sometime a RED CT timber will never die from lrm(or took you like 3 additional wave of lrm rain) ,better just shoot him with laser or srm etc save your time and ammo for other.If you saty too far there are no option except pumping more lrm >more waste.
3)tag or narc focus...while pushing you should have a easy time to use tag or narc that often give your team massive focus fire help...better then you talking in open ask someone to kill who who who,also better for you c-bill income.
narc and tag also help counter those ecm or push back someone to cover leaving a better fight odd for your team.
4)you live longer ,except your push is bad ,LRM boat should have a better life span in a group due to no light gonna poke ur rear.
5)easy support friendly mech: in a somewhat close range you should able to shoot and lock any friendly mech getting flanked.Which not gonna happen if you firing at 800m+ lrm is good in saving friend.

all in all a good push order is very helpful.(just last as long as possible,our lrm will bring doom to them .) now I wish i could hold more lrm per tons whenever i find a good team lol.

[JigglyMoobs]

Drop calling is also a skill that can be improved with practice.

In my early days of using VoIP I'd use comments like PUSH or defend or focus x, y or z. With more practice I've been doing more calls like:

Focus x at grid yz near terrain feature...
Mech a has red component b, 1 shot...
Enemy is attacking from ... Suggest we flank from...
Bravo ... Mechtype is in the open, good target for lrms.
LRM boat echo you have lights moving x meters to your rear suggest you rejoin group
Lights isolated lrm/sniper at grid ... X meters out can you take him out
I'm in an Atlas ready to push position zeta as soon as you guys get in position, (looks at TAC map, sees teammates queuing, puts up UAV), OK UAV up gogogo, I'll go first focus x/y/z mech on left/right,
Scarry mech x is biggest threat right now focus him.
OK group A I'm in group B our situation is good/bad/terrifying we can hold out for x more seconds suggest you finish killing those guys quick and reinforce
OK, enemy is at position z, we are pushing in them from y, suggest you guys go in from your position we will create a pincer.
Assault mech x meters out near grid xy, loadout us spacewhale/uacs/10 flammers focus Lt/RT.

Etc

Each of the above have actually happened and been effective in PUG. Of course they taken some thinking and practice to pull off.

Oh also important:

Dammit guys that was an awful call on my part, totally screwed the match for us, sorry.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 14 April 2016 - 12:39 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Also, here's a situation that can get under my skin.

Team makes MISTAKES, match goes horribly, all is more than obviously lost.

Me chatting with teammate in VoIP on lessons learned:

Me: hmm, that was horrible seems to me we lost because of a, b, and C
Teammate: yes, we should have done h and I instead, also it was really bad to do J.
Bad PUG who haven't made a peep all game while enemy rolled up our rear:
STFU you whiney aholes I just want to play don't tell me what to do I have a job and kids and.....

Now, here's where I wish I could say that I would patiently explain to the gentleman that we are simply discussing and reinforcing some lessons learned. Instead, what sometimes happens is that my mental rubber band of finite patience snaps and I say something that I later regret. Still working on that patience.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Cause if you drop 12 random ppl on a side they all think their **** doesnt stink.

Pretty much why

JigglyMoobs, on 14 April 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

Also, here's a situation that can get under my skin.

Team makes MISTAKES, match goes horribly, all is more than obviously lost.

Me chatting with teammate in VoIP on lessons learned:

Me: hmm, that was horrible seems to me we lost because of a, b, and C
Teammate: yes, we should have done h and I instead, also it was really bad to do J.
Bad PUG who haven't made a peep all game while enemy rolled up our rear:
STFU you whiney aholes I just want to play don't tell me what to do I have a job and kids and.....

Now, here's where I wish I could say that I would patiently explain to the gentleman that we are simply discussing and reinforcing some lessons learned. Instead, what sometimes happens is that my mental rubber band of finite patience snaps and I say something that I later regret. Still working on that patience.

why I dont talk into voip and just listen

[Khaleb]

and again it has to be you who gives those commands, which is the whole issue
why do 90% of the posters here think that it should be them and noone else who gives the orders
youre not better than other players, youve been matched to each other by the matchmaker after all
you have done nothing that would qualify you as a leader, you admittedly made mistakes that lead the entire team to lose, and STILL you think it should be YOU and noone else who calls the shots
that is whats ridiculous, that overinflated ego mixed with arrogance, and me and most other players will not follow your "orders" because you are simply not qualified
how about a suggestion where to move? NO you need to bark orders and yell at players that do not follow them, that is exactly what the op does
or maybe you could ask for a change what the team wants to do? if you dont get an answer it obviously means noone wants to talk and noone wants to be lead by you or they would have told you
also if someone brought an lrm setup its HIS choice, he might have brought it because he liked it, he does not have to follow your "commands" to charge, he can do what he wants, you didnt bring a narc/tag setup to support him either and hes not complaining and calling u useless
you calling that guy useless just shows what kind of personality you have

and what does a 1on1 have to do with 12on12? and same tonnage? i would never attack a mech by myself where i would sustain as much damage as i can dish out, i pick targets that cant keep up with my range or maneuverability, that are already under fire or are otherwise hampered, i prefer to win by caping rather than fighting anyway, and i can do so because its my time and not yours that i spend with mwo
you wanting a 1on1 clearly shows how little you understand about the game, and yet you still consider yourself a suitable leader... ridiculous

[RavenKnight86]

^ This is the mentality that is so wrong in so many solo queue matches. I will do what I want and screw what's best for the team. Most calls I make are trying to take advantage of a split team or taking down a struggling Mech. This is a team based team. If you can't but YOUR ego aside for the betterment of the team, as you've continually shown with your posts about how "I'll do what I want."

Also the 1v1 challenge was for you to actually prove your point that I am some sub-average player. If you are as good a player as you are trying to pretend to be it wouldn't matter Mech selection. You could take your long range light and try to keep range on another light Mech. However you won't accept the challenge cause then you would be shown to be the sub-average player.

More so I doubt you read the 5 or so previous pages before you came in here attacking anyone that doesn't share your opinion that you can do whatever you want in a team based game. Just glad I moved up a tier and will likely never see you in solo queue again. Course maybe I'll jump on the alt I set up for my girlfriend and stomp you on that account.

Edited by RavenKnight86, 14 April 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[BigBenn]

RavenKnight86, on 07 April 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

I swear the past few nights I have nearly wanted to pull my hair out dropping solo queue. I give commands to the team, try to rally the team, and nothing seems to work. All these pugs just scatter to the wind. Is there a reason for this? Should I just stay in group queue to level my Mechs?

You've probably been around long enough to understand that you can lead a horse to a watering hole but you cant make it drink. The same applied in the quick drop (pug), you can give verbal cues ("orders" is a bit too direct I think), type out cues, etc, and one glance at your map and you see light mechs off in la la land, assaults split off from the group, and some guys sitting sitting down low with direct fire weapons. Etc Etc. I've learned to say my bit, offer my suggestions, and try to accommodate. I only try to help, never try to command. If I suggest A, and the others respond then great. If I suggest B, and I get 1 respondent, then B is a no go.

Easy come, easy go. Take nothing personal. Also... keep in mind that you can be playing with people who do not speak or read English. Likewise, keep in mind that certain players may be able to speak/read English per say but they could be from Chicago, Detroit, or NYC and they simply can't understand anything you say because you're speaking in coherent phrases, etc.

[Bluttrunken]

People don't like being ordered around by someone they don't/barely know? I dunno, I try to heed calls and call-outs but I'm mostly bound by the team, when the rest of the team doesn't follow suit I can hardly justify to break out.