115 replies to this topic

[Afuldan McKronik]

Yeah the Tiers sneak up on you. Didn't realise I hit 2 until last night and got dropped in with Tier 1's. In my lolzy ACH.

[Thunder Child]

Afuldan McKronik, on 11 April 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah the Tiers sneak up on you. Didn't realise I hit 2 until last night and got dropped in with Tier 1's. In my lolzy ACH.

I was bouncing the bottom of Tier 3 for a while. I'm not very good in this Laser Meta. My Era was the pre-JJ nerf with a Poptart ALRM30 CLPT-C1. TAG and Artemis at 300m back then meant you could pop up, grab a lock, fire, and land, and all 30 missiles Had CT seeking. It was almost as bad as some of the 45pt PPFLD Poptart shots.

[C E Dwyer]

eminus, on 09 April 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

is there a plan to enable this? just like in tanks when you change your direction your aim will stay and not turn with your torso.

has this feature been implemented before? if not was there any talks/request to add this?

right now if you change your direction you need to counter it to stay where you are pointing before and it would greatly help those you are in close range brawling.

If I'm understanding what you mean, an auto aim like in world of tanks, the answer is no, people here prefer to use natural ability.



If you mean something else entirely, then you have my sincere apology for the sarcasm

[thehiddenedge]

I know I'm not the best light pilot out there, but I'd have to say that I understand the class competently enough. In the current system it is easy enough to compensate your aim when making wide turns. The only thing that messes with my aim in even the slightest way is when I have to make many small turns back and forth. Obviously this is more pronounced at range than in brawling territory, but it does throw off my aim occasionally up close. Note that this does'nt make me miss completely, but I may hit a couple components instead of only one. It requires a bit of familarization and skill to compensate for each mechs individual turning rates to keep the crosshair perfectly trained on my target.

Now imagine if we decouple torso orientation and thus aiming from turning of the legs. It is now much easier to keep the crosshair on the same component. Yes, I understand I would still have to compensate for terrain, but I would no longer have to compensate for turning. I could now bob and weave to my hearts content without having my aim interrupted at all by the movement of my legs. It would be childs play to keep my ERLL's on my target while dodging incoming fire, something which is already easy enough. I could now bring my SPL or ML striker into brawling range and it would be even easier to keep that burn in place on a single component while I'm zipping around all those assaults who now have even more trouble keeping me in their crosshairs because turning doesn't help them twist any faster anymore.

Apparently I don't understand though. Good thing you keep reminding me or else I would have thought that i did.

[Afuldan McKronik]

I started with sarcasm, but it needed to be a... 6 page discussion. It would make TTK plummet. Again. Imagine a BK using that kind of system. Damn things damn near pop ST when you glance at them right now.

thehiddenedge, on 11 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

I know I'm not the best light pilot out there, but I'd have to say that I understand the class competently enough. In the current system it is easy enough to compensate your aim when making wide turns. The only thing that messes with my aim in even the slightest way is when I have to make many small turns back and forth. Obviously this is more pronounced at range than in brawling territory, but it does throw off my aim occasionally up close. Note that this does'nt make me miss completely, but I may hit a couple components instead of only one. It requires a bit of familarization and skill to compensate for each mechs individual turning rates to keep the crosshair perfectly trained on my target.

Now imagine if we decouple torso orientation and thus aiming from turning of the legs. It is now much easier to keep the crosshair on the same component. Yes, I understand I would still have to compensate for terrain, but I would no longer have to compensate for turning. I could now bob and weave to my hearts content without having my aim interrupted at all by the movement of my legs. It would be childs play to keep my ERLL's on my target while dodging incoming fire, something which is already easy enough. I could now bring my SPL or ML striker into brawling range and it would be even easier to keep that burn in place on a single component while I'm zipping around all those assaults who now have even more trouble keeping me in their crosshairs because turning doesn't help them twist any faster anymore.

Apparently I don't understand though. Good thing you keep reminding me or else I would have thought that i did.

You missed the /sarcasm at the end of that, I think.

[Thunder Child]

Afuldan McKronik, on 11 April 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah the Tiers sneak up on you. Didn't realise I hit 2 until last night and got dropped in with Tier 1's. In my lolzy ACH.

Is your Lolzy ACH an LBX2 variant? Or is it an LRM 20 Loadout.

[Revis Volek]

Romeo Deluxe, on 10 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Once again...an option. Some people will find it useful, some will not. This has to do with turning behavior. You are the one that is adding this nonesense about aim locking to target.

Its not an option, its a crutch for bads and keeps them from playing the game how IT SHOULD BE played and will be played in the higher levels of competition and tiers.


Bad idea is bad idea.

[BackBreaker]

Such feature would shallow the gameplay and make it easier (no possibility to increase upper torso turn at the cost of additional aiming offset when turning).

It's already easy to aim, making MWO more casual would be a sad and tragic move.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Thunder Child, on 11 April 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Is your Lolzy ACH an LBX2 variant? Or is it an LRM 20 Loadout.

LRM 10 and a small er laser. Such fun, many tears.

[ilikerice]

I've read through the entire thread and I believe some of you may be misunderstanding what this would do if this was implemented in this game.

1. Torso twist speed is still a thing.

If you are twisting hard left and need to catch that light your torso will still be turning right to compensate and you will have to move your mouse twice as far across the mousepad to compensate.

While the opposite is true for the twisting away side, you would be moving the mouse less to accomplish more while twisting away.

With this effectively doubling the inside turn mouse travel distance would you be upping your mouse sensitivity settings or buying a larger mousepad?

2. Twist arc range is still a thing.

With all the mouse moving and auto compensation going on you are going to lose track of your twist arc limits VERY fast.

The ONLY mech where this would be useful is the Urbanmech because of its 360 degree torso twist. Almost like a tank right, which is where the comparison is comming from?

I for one don't want to have to compensate just to see where I'm going as I travel the 5 minutes to get to the center of the map.

Every left turn would skew my torso all the way to the right to focus on that rock I'm trying to avoid.

Every right turn will slam my view to the left to focus on that beautiful tree that is in my way.

Why?

If you're really that hard up for it isn't there some way to make a macro?

I have played my fair amount of MW games but not all so I could be wrong, but this hasn't been implemented in any of the other games has it? If it was I certainly don't remember it.

[Ultimax]

Tristan Winter, on 10 April 2016 - 05:55 AM, said:

I know Battletech is supposed to be kind of retro, but these battlemechs are supposed to be super advanced, almost semi-intelligent in their ability to obey the commands of the pilot. It seems dumb that we have to manually compensate the torso twist to adjust for how we're moving the legs.

I get where your coming from, but the simulation portion of this could also be explained that the semi-intelligent part of the battlemech is us.

We're more mech than we are pilot in this game.

[thehiddenedge]

You make a couple very good points there ilikerice.

No MW has never had anything remotely similar. I could be wrong about MW1, but I highly doubt it.

[Afuldan McKronik]

ilikerice, on 11 April 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

I've read through the entire thread and I believe some of you may be misunderstanding what this would do if this was implemented in this game.

1. Torso twist speed is still a thing.

If you are twisting hard left and need to catch that light your torso will still be turning right to compensate and you will have to move your mouse twice as far across the mousepad to compensate.

While the opposite is true for the twisting away side, you would be moving the mouse less to accomplish more while twisting away.

With this effectively doubling the inside turn mouse travel distance would you be upping your mouse sensitivity settings or buying a larger mousepad?

2. Twist arc range is still a thing.

With all the mouse moving and auto compensation going on you are going to lose track of your twist arc limits VERY fast.

The ONLY mech where this would be useful is the Urbanmech because of its 360 degree torso twist. Almost like a tank right, which is where the comparison is comming from?

I for one don't want to have to compensate just to see where I'm going as I travel the 5 minutes to get to the center of the map.

Every left turn would skew my torso all the way to the right to focus on that rock I'm trying to avoid.

Every right turn will slam my view to the left to focus on that beautiful tree that is in my way.

Why?

If you're really that hard up for it isn't there some way to make a macro?

I have played my fair amount of MW games but not all so I could be wrong, but this hasn't been implemented in any of the other games has it? If it was I certainly don't remember it.

Every other game had every mech twist at the same rate, also had torso turn aligned with legs.

Slow heavies and assaults need the extra speed for torso twist tied into their leg turning. This helps them turn and blast the light on their ***.

Fast mediums and lights would literally be able to dance to avoid fire while keeping a component focused with no effort.

If you are having problems with your view slamming right and left as you turn, take advanced zoom off and get used to regular zoom. It handicaps your awareness of surroundings, badly, and an ECM mech will laugh as you search back and forth, as he pegs you from the corner of your unzoomed screen above/below you.

Laser boats will be able to focus fire even easier onto one component even easier than they already can.

Once you get used to it, the twisting that results from your turning allows you to know which direction you are moving while you are twisted. (Love you, Hunchback. I will save your hunch.)

This behavior will destroy what little aim checking there is in this game. Ballistic trajectory/drop/lead not withstanding. Lasers will be forever the meta, no matter how much they get balanced or nerfed, because you could do figure 8s and keep the crosshair on a single compartment, making fast, laser boats the only viable mech.

[ilikerice]

Afuldan McKronik, on 11 April 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Every other game had every mech twist at the same rate, also had torso turn aligned with legs.

Slow heavies and assaults need the extra speed for torso twist tied into their leg turning. This helps them turn and blast the light on their ***.

Fast mediums and lights would literally be able to dance to avoid fire while keeping a component focused with no effort.

If you are having problems with your view slamming right and left as you turn, take advanced zoom off and get used to regular zoom. It handicaps your awareness of surroundings, badly, and an ECM mech will laugh as you search back and forth, as he pegs you from the corner of your unzoomed screen above/below you.

Laser boats will be able to focus fire even easier onto one component even easier than they already can.

Once you get used to it, the twisting that results from your turning allows you to know which direction you are moving while you are twisted. (Love you, Hunchback. I will save your hunch.)

This behavior will destroy what little aim checking there is in this game. Ballistic trajectory/drop/lead not withstanding. Lasers will be forever the meta, no matter how much they get balanced or nerfed, because you could do figure 8s and keep the crosshair on a single compartment, making fast, laser boats the only viable mech.

I'm sorry I think you don't understand, that was all examples of unlocked torso twist like the OP stated

Your first two sentences I agree with.

Point 3 is what people BELIEVE is what would happen. Best case you can do S turns while running toward a mech (which a skilled pilot can do anyways)

Point 4: I was just showing an example of what would happen out of combat with unlocked torso twist, you would have to compensate for every tuen your mech makes to see where you are going.

Point 5: again, this is best case, but a skilled pilot can already do this.

Sentence 6 i completely agree

Point 7 while fast lights might benefit from it it is not like you can do figure 8s. The ONLY mech that can do this is an urbanmech. This is not a tank game, unlocked/ twist compensated torso twist will still hit its arc limits.

My post was trying to show why unlocked torso twist is better left to tank games and not mechs.

[Afuldan McKronik]

I just don't want something that rewards laser vomit more.

Its not like certain mechs can do a 58 point alpha into a single component already... wait...

[Wiley Coyote]

thehiddenedge, on 11 April 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

You make a couple very good points there ilikerice.

No MW has never had anything remotely similar. I could be wrong about MW1, but I highly doubt it.

Pretty sure you're right and if I could get my old copy to run (yes, I still have that first MW game), I'd confirm it.