127 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

I tried out my Vindy 1AA after this new 'buff', still as **** as ever

Almost no reason to take this weapon over the LPL

[FupDup]

Yosharian, on 10 April 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

I tried out my Vindy 1AA after this new 'buff', still as **** as ever

Almost no reason to take this weapon over the LPL

That Vindy also has +50% velocity and -25% heat on those PPCs, which really should be painting a clear picture here of the state of PPCs.

[RangerGee412]

Ppcs are good against assaults and heavys, but if the target has decent speed it can be more difficulthan to hit them. When they were fast they were the go to weapon. That's all anyone ever used.

The heat sucks, but all I need is a split second to break cover and send the 10 or 20 dmg downrange vs the half second 1 second of exposure to shoot my lasers off. I don't use them as a main weapon just as a prebrawl damage dealer except in the Warhawks or my adder.

[Trauglodyte]

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them. Otherwise, go back to spamming Large Lasers like you're already doing. I swear, bunch of crybaby hipsters - would have crapped your pants back in the days of no-HSR and 800m/s PPC bolts.

[Mcgral18]

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them. Otherwise, go back to spamming Large Lasers like you're already doing. I swear, bunch of crybaby hipsters - would have crapped your pants back in the days of no-HSR and 800m/s PPC bolts.

Actually, we'd be doing the same thing: Asking PGI to stop keeping weapons worthless.

And so they did back than...by nearly tripling their speed, reducing their cooldown 25% and also reducing their heat.



We don't want THAT, but a worthwhile weapon would be nice.

[FupDup]

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them. Otherwise, go back to spamming Large Lasers like you're already doing. I swear, bunch of crybaby hipsters - would have crapped your pants back in the days of no-HSR and 800m/s PPC bolts.

I'm not entirely a fan of the "X weapon only works on Y chassis" approach, particularly because PGI hasn't been very consistent at doing it effectively. In particular, I'm still waiting for the superquirked variants that make LBX viable...

[Trauglodyte]

I know, McGral. I want them to be better. But, the reason Fup we have X weapon only works on Y chassis is because quirks should be all about enhancing the weapon upon which it was based. PPCs are light, but hot, and can do a nasty amount of damage at range if they're 1) too fast and 2) too heat efficient. PGI, for all of their bungling in the past, learned about not wanting the PPC meta to come back. This is why we have the PPC mega-quirks and why that won't ever go away. I'd like them a bit better than they are now, to the point where being quirked puts them at about 2k m/s. But, the random mech driver taking them isn't and shouldn't ever come back.

[Barantor]

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them. Otherwise, go back to spamming Large Lasers like you're already doing. I swear, bunch of crybaby hipsters - would have crapped your pants back in the days of no-HSR and 800m/s PPC bolts.

I don't mind using them on things like awesomes, but even then they aren't the best weapon and I've seen more than a few 8Qs with LPLs... which is pretty sad.

I don't want the poptart/ppc meta to come back, but then again I wouldn't mind the laser meta dying off some either.

[oldradagast]

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them. Otherwise, go back to spamming Large Lasers like you're already doing. I swear, bunch of crybaby hipsters - would have crapped your pants back in the days of no-HSR and 800m/s PPC bolts.

Pffft... expecting all weapons to be viable is not "whining." PPC's are junk currently, and trying to justify that with half-baked excuses like "Uh, they sort of work OK on hyper-quirked chassis" is simply silly. If a weapon needs quirks to be viable - and not even good in the case of PPC's - the weapon is too weak.

[Kubernetes]

Honestly, they just need more velocity. They're supposed to be long range weapons, but without quirks they're too slow to engage anything at optimum range. Cooldown is fine and heat is fine (they're supposed to be high heat--that's the tradeoff to get PPFLD), but bring the velocity back up. (ER)PPCs at 1700-1800m/s are fantastic weapons. (ER)PPCs at 1100-1200m/s are indeed junk.

[Pariah Devalis]

Alan Davion, on 10 April 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Where did you hear that from?

There's no numbers given in the April Road Map where it says, and I quote...

[/font][/size]

Could someone perhaps post up the base PPC/ERPPC/C-ERPPC stats so we can theory craft a little bit on this subject?

Don't think someone replied to you on this, but it was stated on twitter and the live streamed town hall. More precisely, Standard PPC are getting 0.5 cooler and 100 m/s faster, while IS and C ERPPC are getting 1 cooler and 100 m/s faster.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

FupDup, on 10 April 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'm not entirely a fan of the "X weapon only works on Y chassis" approach, particularly because PGI hasn't been very consistent at doing it effectively. In particular, I'm still waiting for the superquirked variants that make LBX viable...

CN9-D kinda wants to do autoshotties, but it still has problems with LBX CoF. Half viable, I guess. But better than nothing!

Then again, LBX10 x 4 Mauler or DWF is all kinds of LOL. You should try it.

[Trauglodyte]

<sigh> I guess that I'm going to have to write this again a bit more clearly. PPCs are weak and they need to be buffed more than what they're getting in the next patch. The PPC/ER PPC should, fully quirked, be at or above 2000m/s velocity and the heat needs to be more manageable than it currently is. BUT, they should only be like that on mechs that are designed to run them (read: ever mech that was built around the PPC in lore). For every other mech, they need to be moderately ok along the lines of a slightly faster AC5. That is the way it needs to be because we cannot and should not go back to a game where everyone was running nothing but PPCs. That was an awful time in the game and something that PGI isn't going to allow to come back. This is exactly what PGI is doing and they're completely in the right for doing so. If someone wants to take a Dragon, for example, and stuff it full of PPCs, then that is fine. But, they'd better be able to use them at the listed speed of 1100-1300m/s because, aside from the Grand Dragon which is not in game, the Dragon wasn't built on the PPC. I hate quirks but this is the type of quirk that the game needs and, quite frankly, should be more rampant. If your mech is built around it, then you're a badass with that weapon; if you just slapped it on because PGI decided that they wanted open customization, you'd better be a crack shot or you're going to be using something that isn't up to snuff.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

So everyone wants poke and alpha warrior to happen at long ranges again?

That's pretty much all you're asking for.

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

The PPC/ER PPC should, fully quirked, be at or above 2000m/s velocity

That's faster than gauss.....

I'm not reading any further b/c it's clear you just want them to be OP and don't actually want them to have a drawback.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 10 April 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 10 April 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

So everyone wants poke and alpha warrior to happen at long ranges again?

That's pretty much all you're asking for.

Then you obviously aren't reading.

[Trauglodyte]

I was going to write something snarky, Atlas Overlord, but I thought better. 2000m/s is the same as the AC2 and the same as the Gauss Rifle. You're absolutely correct. What you're failing to realize is that is fully quirked on a mech with +50% PPC velocity. What we're talking about is having PPCs be THE top shelf ranged energy weapon IF the chassis that is using it is built around it, and as such, quirks it to an extreme. I, personally, don't want someone hopping in an Urbanmech and putting 2-3 PPCs on it and it be just as viable as an Awesome, Warhammer, Panther, etc. This game needs to reign in weapon usage and the way that it should be done is how PGI is handling the PPC - if you're not supposed to have it, you can use it but it won't be great; if you're designed with it in mind, you're going to be beastly with it. That is called balance. This current BS where everyone can just drop whatever they want into a mech and cruise around like it was literally formed around it is awful for the game. That and the complete lack of a heat scale is why pretty much every match is Large Laser poking or however many <insert weapon here> I can put on this thing.

[oldradagast]

PPC's are currently trash - asking for them not to be is not asking for the game to be broken.

Seriously, people rarely run PPC's on mechs with hyper-quirks for them. About the only people who still do that are those who want to run a mech that is closer to Lore. But in almost every single case, boating a pile of lasers and pulse lasers would be a better option - even on mechs hyper-quirked for PPC's. That means PPC's are trash currently.

Edited by oldradagast, 10 April 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[occusoj]

Trauglodyte, on 10 April 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I see a lot of PPC complainers wanting their front loaded weapon reverted back to the old days so that they can stuff them on any chassis they want. If you want to use the weapon, use it on a chassis that is supposed to have them.

You mean the CPLT-K2 for example which comes with 2xPPC and is quirked for 40% speed and 10% heat?
Well, PPCs are still worthless on it. Thats the level of bad we are talking about here. But then, the K2 is a sad trainwreck on its own.
Unless one is willing to wander into LBX10 territory its hard to find weapons worse than PPCs.

[Alan Davion]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 April 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Don't think someone replied to you on this, but it was stated on twitter and the live streamed town hall. More precisely, Standard PPC are getting 0.5 cooler and 100 m/s faster, while IS and C ERPPC are getting 1 cooler and 100 m/s faster.

Yeah no one had replied just yet.

I must have missed the part about the PPC changes, but giving each only a hundred meters per second increase seems a bit... Weak.

If anything they should be around 100-250 m/s slower than Gauss, fast, but not stupidly fast like they used to be.

[FupDup]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 10 April 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

CN9-D kinda wants to do autoshotties, but it still has problems with LBX CoF. Half viable, I guess. But better than nothing!

Then again, LBX10 x 4 Mauler or DWF is all kinds of LOL. You should try it.

That Centy variant only gets +10% LBX cooldown compared to +30% generic ballistic. People whined too much about weapon-specific quirks, so now the remaining specific quirks for the LBX are absolutely useless.

Even at 30% LBX and 10% generic it would be hard to justify the LBX...

Alan Davion, on 10 April 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

Yeah no one had replied just yet.

I must have missed the part about the PPC changes, but giving each only a hundred meters per second increase seems a bit... Weak.

If anything they should be around 100-250 m/s slower than Gauss, fast, but not stupidly fast like they used to be.

Actually, that would make them faster than their pre-nerf speed.

Gauss is 2000 m/s.
PPCs before the rise of the 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Dire Whale were 1500 m/s.
Your range of values would put Peeps at somewhere between 1900-1750 m/s.

Edited by FupDup, 10 April 2016 - 03:30 PM.