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Behold! The Nightstar! (Victory Achieved!) #nightstar2017

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#441 TheArisen

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:57 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 14 June 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:


1) Never said you could swim in plate armour
2) Frederick likely died of a heart attack which caused him to fall into the river in the first place. (though enough conflicting accounts, could also have been exertion induced after he fell in, etc)
3) The armour worn in the Third Crusade was usually a very heavy coat of mail, with mail leggings worn like hip waders under the coat, with richer warriors sometimes wearing a brigantine coat of plates over it for better protection against arrows. All total actually much heavier than a suit of gothic plate.

*nerdalert*


Hold on man, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just seeking some clarification. I know knights would need a crane to put them on a horse, etc. Basically, I only know the basics but I'm not about to name Gothic plate or some such off the top of my head.

View PostBishop Steiner, on 14 June 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

and now I'm toying with a 340 kph (30 hex) light scout MWDA era quad mech code name: Cheetah


What's it armed with? Micro lasers?

#442 Karl Streiger

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 11:30 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 14 June 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Hold on man, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just seeking some clarification. I know knights would need a crane to put them on a horse, etc. Basically, I only know the basics but I'm not about to name Gothic plate or some such off the top of my head.

Hm I think this could be called a good old history legend. maybe based on the "armor" of WW I - afaik the field plate did weight at best 25-30 kilogram - consider what a today's soldier has to carry - and even with 12kg MG3, ammunition, fungal looking helmet; backpack and geroedel including half a dozen knifes in my case i still was able to run; jump go prone and even crawl....and the weight of the armor of those knights was much better spread

Considering swords - swords were of use fighting plate armored oponents but rather than to slice and chop it was to stab.
Afaik the Polish Hussars were the pinnacle of heavy cavlary with extreme long lances and the Koncerz

Back to topic, BattleTech swords are indeed somehow stupid - because there is no reason why a 3t sword should be more dexterous over a 5t hatchet with power and control of a battleMech behind the slash.

Barbarossa? This was the Kenedy of the middle age - he was murdered by a man on a hill using a crossbow.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 14 June 2016 - 11:33 PM.


#443 TheArisen

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 01:14 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 14 June 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

Barbarossa? This was the Kenedy of the middle age - he was murdered by a man on a hill using a crossbow.


Who? What?

#444 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 06:39 AM

View PostTheArisen, on 14 June 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Hold on man, I'm not questioning your knowledge, just seeking some clarification. I know knights would need a crane to put them on a horse, etc. Basically, I only know the basics but I'm not about to name Gothic plate or some such off the top of my head.



What's it armed with? Micro lasers?

Actually, that's a romantification of the whole knights in armor thing too.
http://www.metmuseum...ams/hd_aams.htm

From the Met Museum

As for the Cheetah, 2x ER Medium Laser, actually. Unless I decide to Mixtech it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 June 2016 - 06:40 AM.


#445 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 06:45 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 14 June 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:


Barbarossa? This was the Kenedy of the middle age - he was murdered by a man on a hill using a crossbow.



View PostTheArisen, on 15 June 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Who? What?



Frederick 1 Barbarosa, the German King (Emperor) in question who supposedly died in by drowning in the stream. My guess is that the comment is that there are so many conflicting reports as to how he actually died, one could call it a historical conspiracy theory thing. Like Kennedy.

Also, yes, stabbing swords were certainly a thing, though still generally less efficient than many other weapons extant.

Of course, Crossbows, and then Firearms all started to make the whole "wear heavier armor" thing somewhat pointless.

Anyhow, most relevant tour our discussion is this section....

"The notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420–30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation. On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366–1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.

There are a few exceptional instances when armor was extremely heavy or did indeed render its wearer almost “locked” in a certain position, such as armor for certain types of tournaments. Tournament armor was made for very specific occasions and would have been worn only for limited periods of time. The man-at-arms would have mounted his steed with the aid of his squire or a small step, and the last pieces of his armor could then be donned after securely sitting in the saddle."

#446 TheArisen

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 03:34 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 15 June 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:





Frederick 1 Barbarosa, the German King (Emperor) in question who supposedly died in by drowning in the stream. My guess is that the comment is that there are so many conflicting reports as to how he actually died, one could call it a historical conspiracy theory thing. Like Kennedy.

Also, yes, stabbing swords were certainly a thing, though still generally less efficient than many other weapons extant.

Of course, Crossbows, and then Firearms all started to make the whole "wear heavier armor" thing somewhat pointless.

Anyhow, most relevant tour our discussion is this section....

"The notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420–30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation. On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366–1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.

There are a few exceptional instances when armor was extremely heavy or did indeed render its wearer almost “locked” in a certain position, such as armor for certain types of tournaments. Tournament armor was made for very specific occasions and would have been worn only for limited periods of time. The man-at-arms would have mounted his steed with the aid of his squire or a small step, and the last pieces of his armor could then be donned after securely sitting in the saddle."


Nice tidbit of history, I approve.

A question for everyone, how good do you think the Nightstar would be in MWO? Assuming Pgi didn't screw up it's hitboxes, etc.

#447 TheArisen

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 04:43 PM

Hey FLG, how do you pronounce "Xaver"? Like "Saver"?

#448 FLG 01

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 05:14 PM

In German it is [ˈksaːvɐ]. I hope this link to an audio works:
http://www1.dict.cc/...678646375641115
http://contribute.di...tory&f=id-83472 (just click "play")

However I imagine in the Battletech universe the name would be more or less pronounced like the more common English rendition Xavier, just without the "i".

(And Murr is pronounced like Moore, although the vowel is a bit shorter).

#449 TheArisen

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 01:44 AM

View PostFLG 01, on 28 June 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

In German it is [ˈksaːvɐ]. I hope this link to an audio works:
http://www1.dict.cc/...678646375641115
http://contribute.di...&f=id-83472 (just click "play")

However I imagine in the Battletech universe the name would be more or less pronounced like the more common English rendition Xavier, just without the "i".

(And Murr is pronounced like Moore, although the vowel is a bit shorter).


Very cool. :)

#450 MacClearly

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 10:53 AM

Plue one this #$%*....

#451 TheArisen

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 03:31 PM

View PostMacClearly, on 01 July 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Plue one this #$%*....


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you mean "plus one" haha.

#452 FLG 01

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 08:52 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 17 June 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

A question for everyone, how good do you think the Nightstar would be in MWO? Assuming Pgi didn't screw up it's hitboxes, etc.


Very well, I guess. Its closest analog would be the King Crab, but it is lighter and thus faster and has higher hardpoints. I personally think speed will be very important, as you can operate the main armament - i.e. two large ballistics - just as well with 95 tons as you can with 100 tons. I don't think the somewhat weaker secondary armament will be that much of a factor.
Admittedly, it will supercede the King Crab in most roles, except dual AC/20 (which is not that useful atm).

However, we are dealing with an IS Assault Mech. The best advantage of the assault class is that it carries a lot of weapons (the better armour rarely counts due to mobility limitations and due to being focussed by the enemy 9/10 times). But in order to carry enough weapons to compete with a Clan Assault Mech, it will need the XL engine. And that will make it vulnerable. Sure you could take a STD engine, but after losing an ST you are little more than a 95 ton nuisance. (Same with its father, the Marauder: shoot away one ST and it is virtually impotent despite having survived). Depending on what PGI does, you may try an asymmetric build but I would not count on it.

So imho it needs quirks to be up there with the Daishi and Kodiak. If it gets those quirks... well, what then? The worst that could happen is that it supercedes all assault Mechs, but let us be honest: the game does not favour assault Mechs and it is not easy to pilot them. Even in this worst case there would be very little change to the game.
If the quirks are handled correctly, it might supplement the current assault line-up in the queue. That would be good for it would add variety.

It may not be popular to say, but when it comes to the high-end assault class, the IS must go big or go home. We cannot afford mediocrity, mainly due to the difference in XL engines.
(Not a commentary on the overall Clan vs IS balance, this just means the 90tons+ assault Mechs).

#453 TheArisen

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:13 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 03 July 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:


Very well, I guess. Its closest analog would be the King Crab, but it is lighter and thus faster and has higher hardpoints. I personally think speed will be very important, as you can operate the main armament - i.e. two large ballistics - just as well with 95 tons as you can with 100 tons. I don't think the somewhat weaker secondary armament will be that much of a factor.
Admittedly, it will supercede the King Crab in most roles, except dual AC/20 (which is not that useful atm).

However, we are dealing with an IS Assault Mech. The best advantage of the assault class is that it carries a lot of weapons (the better armour rarely counts due to mobility limitations and due to being focussed by the enemy 9/10 times). But in order to carry enough weapons to compete with a Clan Assault Mech, it will need the XL engine. And that will make it vulnerable. Sure you could take a STD engine, but after losing an ST you are little more than a 95 ton nuisance. (Same with its father, the Marauder: shoot away one ST and it is virtually impotent despite having survived). Depending on what PGI does, you may try an asymmetric build but I would not count on it.

So imho it needs quirks to be up there with the Daishi and Kodiak. If it gets those quirks... well, what then? The worst that could happen is that it supercedes all assault Mechs, but let us be honest: the game does not favour assault Mechs and it is not easy to pilot them. Even in this worst case there would be very little change to the game.
If the quirks are handled correctly, it might supplement the current assault line-up in the queue. That would be good for it would add variety.

It may not be popular to say, but when it comes to the high-end assault class, the IS must go big or go home. We cannot afford mediocrity, mainly due to the difference in XL engines.
(Not a commentary on the overall Clan vs IS balance, this just means the 90tons+ assault Mechs).


I do agree it'd generally be better than the KC, mostly because of higher mounted weapons & also a skinnier torso that is somewhat covered by the arms.

To be comparable to the Kodiak it'd need some quirking, simply put, quad uac10 is devastating. I don't think it'd be hard for it to match up with the Dwolf at range because of it's higher mounted weapons & greater speed which could help it in close quarters. It'd probably be dependent on it's speed &/or spreading damage.

#454 Karl Streiger

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:56 PM

Salty and bitter at the moment, I really hope the Nightstar is not announced soon.

Because I would decline to buying it, although i really like the design

#455 TheArisen

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 12:07 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 03 July 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

Salty and bitter at the moment, I really hope the Nightstar is not announced soon.

Because I would decline to buying it, although i really like the design


:(

Although tbh, I'd be surprised if it was announced within the next couple months.

#456 FLG 01

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:00 PM

Perhaps not, but in the last townhall SL-era Mechs were mentioned as a possibility, however vague. They surely cannot have missed this thread (or the others) about the Nightstar. Furthermore one of the main arguments against the Nightstar is more or less done: since the technology is more important than the timeline now, it does not matter much that the Mech was not used by the playable factions in 3053. (Also the Nobori-Nin hero is from a non-playable faction, too, iirc).

Of course you know my SL-era favourites are the Spartan and the Excalibur, but I know the Nightstar is probably the popular choice, hence it would generate more money for PGI.

Actually it will be very interesting to see what the next IS Mech is going to be. I really can't tell because there are so many good options, but I do believe the Nightstar has a chance.

#457 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:03 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 04 July 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

(Also the Nobori-Nin hero is from a non-playable faction, too, iirc).


Posted Image

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 04 July 2016 - 07:04 PM.


#458 FLG 01

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:11 PM

Yeah, I like the Nova Cats too...

#459 TheArisen

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:31 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 04 July 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Perhaps not, but in the last townhall SL-era Mechs were mentioned as a possibility, however vague. They surely cannot have missed this thread (or the others) about the Nightstar. Furthermore one of the main arguments against the Nightstar is more or less done: since the technology is more important than the timeline now, it does not matter much that the Mech was not used by the playable factions in 3053. (Also the Nobori-Nin hero is from a non-playable faction, too, iirc).

Of course you know my SL-era favourites are the Spartan and the Excalibur, but I know the Nightstar is probably the popular choice, hence it would generate more money for PGI.

Actually it will be very interesting to see what the next IS Mech is going to be. I really can't tell because there are so many good options, but I do believe the Nightstar has a chance.


Well I did get Tina to pass this thread onto Russ & the art team so I do agree with it having a stronger position. Also I'd say this thread has been somewhat successful in drumming up support.

View PostPariah Devalis, on 04 July 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:


Posted Image


Someday.... Hopefully, the Novacats will get added.

#460 CK16

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:32 PM

Dont worry sure they will add more Nova Cat content soon :P

(Hopefully some Diamond Shark's as well >.>, Gots to get the goods man!)

Did you guys have to commission these art works? Just curious.





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