67 replies to this topic

[Dirty Starfish]

I just tried CW again and I feel neutral about the gameplay, but after looking at the match rewards screen after a loss, why the hell should I ever play this mode?

I get it if you're in a premade and you can roflstomp anyone coming against you and rack up 1million c-bills per round, but if you spend 30 minutes losing a close game and deal >1k damage you still get **** all in terms of a payout and you could easily be making twice as much by jumping into solo queue and losing every match you join without getting a single kill or doing any damage.

I get that this is "end game content" for the elite of MWO, but those elites will still sometimes need a pug or two to fill the teams and right now, it's just not worth it to play with the rewards as they are.

[Agent1190]

It should go without saying, but...

Why should you be handsomely rewarded if you lost?

[Dirty Starfish]

I'm not saying you should be handsomely rewarded, I'm just saying that the reward for losing should be increased to be more in line with the 3 or 4 losses you could be getting in pug queue in the meantime.

[Tavious Grimm]

Why be rewarded for a loss? Close game or not. A loss is a loss. Not trying to be a jerk, I've done my fair share of CW. It should serve as incentive for the next game.

[sycocys]

1k damage should get you roughly 400-500k.

Whats 250 damage get you in a quick match? 90-130k?

--
Now if you'd actually use LFG or simply form a group you significantly drop the wait times - OMG make the game work better!?

So we'll judge based on halfway smart play where you only wait ~5 minutes for a CW match.
5 + 25 (likely approx average match time) = 30 minutes netting 450k in a loss.

QP (pug) - 4 matches (we'll be optimistic with near instant match time) at ~ 7 minutes a match
4 matches for around 440k

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What's the problem?

Edited by sycocys, 01 April 2016 - 04:20 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

sycocys, on 01 April 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

----
What's the problem?

The problem is that there are not enough rewards, incentives or other motivating factors to make anyone want to play CW. Therefore, almost no one is playing CW.

Looking forward to Phase 3. Fingers crossed.

[Livewyr]

You get a trophy for participating. (You cannot lose money)

Be happy with that, or...you know... Win.

[Agent1190]

Dirty Starfish, on 01 April 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

I get that this is "end game content" for the elite of MWO, but those elites will still sometimes need a pug or two to fill the teams and right now, it's just not worth it to play with the rewards as they are.

Match rewards for win or loss are based on performance in the match (not counting the contract bonus if you win, of course). They are actually fairly even - you don't get less CBills for a kill in a loss versus a win. Do a respectable amount of damage, get some kills and assists, and you'll be around $350-$400K per loss. Go over and above, and you'll make more.

I am using premium time, so my numbers they may be inflated by that, but you get the idea.

But here is the real reason I wanted to reply again to your post... You acknowledge that Faction Warfare is end game content, but you seem content to solo drop. You acknowledge that premades have a distinct advantage in Faction Warfare, but you seem content to solo drop hoping that you can piggy back one of those premades to victry. Here's a thought - why don't you seek out these premades' Team Speak servers and actually drop with them? You don't need join their unit (though if you are good, you may get an invite). I pugged around Wolf for 3 months jumping on 3-4 factions TS servers looking for groups to drop with - a ten man will always take along a non-affiliated player or 2 in their TS because they wont have to worry about picking up bad pugs, and its preferable to drop 12 because you get bumped to the front of the queue.

Your FW earnings are what you make them. Play well, win or loss, and you will get compensated. Play poorly, you won't even pay for your consumables. If you want to stabilize your FW earnings, play with a group, don't solo. Like you said, it's end game content. Don't play to level your mechs, don't take joke builds, and find some players you can drop with.

I pulled this off these forums for you. It's the House Davion Team Speak servers. You should be able to find other Davion affiliated players to drop with: ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345

You can download Team Speak at www.teamspeak.com

Edited by Agent1190, 03 April 2016 - 05:19 AM.

[Willard Phule]

End game content filled with people using beginning game equipment.

Exactly what do you think should happen? Equal payout for both teams? Everyone is a special snowflake?

Perhaps those PUGs that are getting stomped in FW should play in the solo queue until they own their mechs...like everyone else did.

[Aiden Skye]

Play harder...that is all.

[Zoid]

Dirty Starfish, on 01 April 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm not saying you should be handsomely rewarded, I'm just saying that the reward for losing should be increased to be more in line with the 3 or 4 losses you could be getting in pug queue in the meantime.

If you do terribly and lose in 3-4 quick play matches you'll get maybe 60k per match there too.

I drop almost entirely solo and it's rare for me to get less than 350k, without premium time. A win is rarely less than 700k (500k from the game plus the 200k victory bonus) with it going up well over a million if I carried my team.

The only time you should get downright terrible payouts are when your team fails to kill much of anything, like 48-10 matches or worse. I don't care if you're fighting the best premade in the game, you don't lose that badly unless pretty much everyone on your team is objectively awful.

[Richard Hazen]

You wonder why people other than hardcore units don't play CW and when people give a reason you crucify them. It's this attitude that makes people not want to bother with CW. CW isn't there just to cater to the elite few there has to be some incentives to participate, especially when you're going to lose the majority of the time and waste a lot of time doing so.

Edited by Will Hawker, 03 April 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Agent1190]

Will Hawker, on 03 April 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

You wonder why people other than hardcore units don't play CW and when people give a reason you crucify them. It's this attitude that makes people not want to bother with CW. CW isn't there just to cater to the elite few there has to be some incentives to participate, especially when you're going to lose the majority of the time and waste a lot of time doing so.

So, instead of fixing the way the player approach Faction Warfare, PGI should fix the rewards to give the player a reason to enter a FW game and perform horribly? Just so he can feel all warm and cuddly with a "at least you tried" CBill reward?

The rewards will come IF you approach Faction warfare properly. The incentives ARE the CBill earnings, and if played properly (as WARKAHN was kind enough to demonstrate) they really do add up better than solo play. Don't ***** about the earnings if you aren't willing to put in the time to actually LEARN how to play Faction Warfare and capitalize.

I also like how you assume that you lose "most of the time." You might find victory is easier to achieve if you join up with a coordinated 12-man. And then, after winning a few (and having fun doing it) you'll have more incentive to play Faction Warfare.

[Chef Kerensky]

One thing to consider is that playing well in CW relies on having a good drop deck, and funding a good deck is expensive.

If a player enjoys CW and wants to improve, I don't really see anything wrong with rewarding them for good performance. Right now that's geared towards getting high damage, but that only encourages disorganized drops to screw each other over and let others tank for them while they do something useless like fire LRMs into a mountain or get popped by pulse lasers while attempting to poptart with PPCs.

I'm not opposed to losing teams earning bonuses for aggressive action like opening the gates, entering the gates, cycling damaged mechs back and undamaged mechs forward. I'm also not opposed to earning half of your faction bonus for losing to provide new players with money for a decently built mech. If a player would rather grind CW than solo queue, why stop them? No one cares about planets anymore anyway

[Helsbane]

We get enough 'participation ribbon' types in FW without paying out more for sub-par performance. Our four man group got griped at during last night's drop by a dude that couldn't break 300 damage with four tries, because we were bad. We got over half the kills, and each member of our lance broke 1500 damage. Yep, we were bad.......

If anything, the low pay these guys get in FW for underperforming should be incentive enough for them to wander back to tier 7 QP drops. Giving them more reason to drag groups down for better pay is the last thing FW needs.

[Agent1190]

Chef Kerensky - you're just standing up for the op-for's you guys slaughter each drop...

Helsbane - I agree completely. No participation rewards in FW. It SHOULD be the big leagues for this game. You shouldn't be there unless you are ready. You should have to be grouped up to play (no solo queue period). I would even make the argument that XP awards should be removed from FW. That's not where you should level up Mechs. It should be the hardcore game mode, not the casual mode that quick play is right now.

If you want a reward for being average or losing, coach your kids little league team.

[Chef Kerensky]

Agent1190, on 03 April 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Chef Kerensky - you're just standing up for the op-for's you guys slaughter each drop...

Helsbane - I agree completely. No participation rewards in FW. It SHOULD be the big leagues for this game. You shouldn't be there unless you are ready. You should have to be grouped up to play (no solo queue period). I would even make the argument that XP awards should be removed from FW. That's not where you should level up Mechs. It should be the hardcore game mode, not the casual mode that quick play is right now.

If you want a reward for being average or losing, coach your kids little league team.

Rolling pugs is fun and all but to me the essence of NKVA is finding people riding a high horse and pulling them to the ground, kicking and screaming. Breaking pugs who have given up before the match is a lot less entertaining until one of them opens their mouths to explain that we're only winning because their 12-man isn't here. Then we usually invite them to throw a 12-man at us.

We have plenty of new players lately who don't know their **** because the game didn't teach them, and those circumstances are the same for anybody outside of the unit. I don't really mind answering a new player's honest questions as long as they don't put up a pretense that they're only losing because the game is imbalanced or some ****. I also remember how awful the grind to build a drop deck is every time I have to elite a new chassis, so I sympathize with players who just want to improve at a video game and get stuck with loremasters and drill sergeants on one hand and pugs with primitive animal brains on the other hand.

In essence, losers become winners only by losing and learning the right lessons. Some people refuse to do that, others try and can't find the resources they need. I sympathize with the latter and enjoy folding the former in half.

[Chef Kerensky]

Oh, also the game is dying and even an ******* like me can recognize that.

[Dirty Starfish]

A: Agent1190, you're a bit of an *******
B: I was talking about NON STOMP pug vs pug FW matches. Even if they are close losses and you do >1k damage, you get far less than if you do well and lose in 4 solo queue matches. I'm not asking for a ******* participation reward, I am asking for the same flat c-bill rate for either winning or losing a FW match with damage and kill rewards on top of that, because right now, matches take too long and are too boring for me to bother, especially when I can make double the money over the same time in the solo queue.

Agent1190, on 03 April 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Chef Kerensky - you're just standing up for the op-for's you guys slaughter each drop...

Helsbane - I agree completely. No participation rewards in FW. It SHOULD be the big leagues for this game. You shouldn't be there unless you are ready. You should have to be grouped up to play (no solo queue period). I would even make the argument that XP awards should be removed from FW. That's not where you should level up Mechs. It should be the hardcore game mode, not the casual mode that quick play is right now.

If you want a reward for being average or losing, coach your kids little league team.

And if you seriously want nobody to play this game, keep on being a ****. Have fun finding one more man when your group of 11 wants to stomp-oh wait, all of the pugs will have left.

[Agent1190]

Dirty Starfish, on 03 April 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm not asking for a ******* participation reward, I am asking for the same flat c-bill rate for either winning or losing...

That's a participation reward. Everyone gets the same trophy, win or lose.