68 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Prosperity Park, on 12 April 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

THIS MAN GETS IT.

Machineguns are actually weight efficient, but they are slot inefficient. Start mounting 2-3 MGs per ballistic hardpoint and they will suddenly be useful.

I could get behind it. I'd like to run 6 MGs on a TBR with 2 LPL and some med lasers.

[LordNothing]

i still stick a full complement of mgs on my arrow, because when the 3 large lasers overheat i like to have a backup. i can easily shoot at the hole in the armor and get a kill or at least do damage while my lasers cool off enough to fire again. the arrow is a murder machine as a result. you have to use them in a complementary fashion to other weapons to be effective. running machine guns alone is pointless, you might as well be boating flamers. they are useful in core hunting lights, especially when you get 2 or 3 laser blasts in before you overheat. on the other hand they are somewhat useless on heavies and assaults, because you can always cram sinks into the engine until your hot weapons are not so hot.

it would be nice if machine guns were more capable as stand alone weapons. offering 0.9 damage would be a good start. i would even fudge with the timeline abit and introduce heavy mgs or arrays early. heavy guns would do more armor damage in exchange for their crit chance. arrays would just me more machine guns packaged together with a small penalty tonnage.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 April 2016 - 02:27 PM.

[cazidin]

How to buff MGs.

1.Increase Damage to 0.2 per bullet.
2.Remove COF.
3.???
4.Profit.

Then they become very short range, very low tonnage AC/2s.

[Tordin]

Its BEYOND me why PGI, decides to let some weapons be nerfhammered into oblivion.

Improve the flamers a bit more, by somehow improving the visuals by still not having them hog resources.
VASTLY improve the mg damage and crit chance,
And improve the lbx 10 by much tighter spread and crit chance.

Why being so stubborn PGI. You are busy right now with alot of things, I understand that. But how much longer do we have to wait for proper adjustments? Are there some obscure stigma against those weapons?

Oh and improve the lrm a bit more by having the spread reduced on lrm 15 and 20. The 20 down to lrm 10 spread and the lrm 15 down to lrm 5 spread. Oh and even higher velocity.

Then those beat-up weapons finally can shine in their use without obliterate any other weapons.

Edited by Tordin, 12 April 2016 - 03:01 PM.

[Volthorne]

Unfortunately I don't have a video of this, but the other night a DWF had sneaked around my team's left flank on Tourmaline, and was in the process of bullying one of our LRM boats. I rolled up behind the dire whale and proceeded to unload into his RCT with my lolcust's impressive arsenal of an entire MPL and four MGs. His armor was gone after half of a second. He was dead in five (whole seconds, not halves). A DWF going from ~99% fresh to dead in under six seconds is just slightly on the ridiculous side of things.

Regardless of what Paul said in the past (or what the community likes to make fun of), if you let someone unload 4+ MGs into an unarmored component you will lose it exceedingly quickly.

Edited by Volthorne, 12 April 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

SHC-PRIME

Death by one million scratches.

The problem is that massed MGs when there's a huge excess of hardpoints is extremely powerful, while having just one or two hardly scratches paint. Consider that each MG is 0.8 dps against armor that is completely and utterly heatless. Then consider what would happen if they added the 12-ballistic Piranha...

Not to mention the jacked up crit damage and crit chance against open components. It's actually quite potent.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 12 April 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Richard Hazen]

Introduce pve elements and watch them machine guns mow down infantry

[wanderer]

The flaw in MGs is they're a narrow band weapon.

They're good IF you have a lot of them AND you have an exposed component AND you're in close range.

Have all the MGs and an intact piece of armor between you and the internals and they're tickleguns. Oh, and they also have cone of fire.

[Seal Farmer]

Madcap72, on 12 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

MG's don't SEEM effective, until you have 3-4+ and use them to crit hunt after can opening something with LPL's.

While thier initial damage is low, with the increasing crit multiplier, and high ROF they'll gut mechs with a surprising quickness once th armor is gone, or you can shoot into an arm hole.

Have to agree with this.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

wanderer, on 12 April 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

The flaw in MGs is they're a narrow band weapon.

They're good IF you have a lot of them AND you have an exposed component AND you're in close range.

Have all the MGs and an intact piece of armor between you and the internals and they're tickleguns. Oh, and they also have cone of fire.

The imprecisions given to the weapon are one of its major drawbacks. If the damage is increased to 0.10, then it'll be that happy medium between 0.08; effectively less DPS than a small laser (which is of equivalent tonnage), and the dreaded 0.12.

0.12 would usher in a new age of dapperjagers and 6mg spiders to wreak havoc upon the unsuspecting Atlai backsides.

They're so incredibly limited that they aren't justifiable in most situations. Spread, plinking damage vs. armor, insignificant range.

Edited by Vaskadar, 12 April 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[Beaching Betty]

But my Arrow still kicks *** with 6 mg, and also them quirks!

[Mad Dog Morgan]

With 6. What about 2?

I'd rather have slots and tonnage for 6 small lasers. Why? Their effective DPS is 1, still 0.2pts higher than an MG.

[DerMaulwurf]

Vaskadar, on 12 April 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

With 6. What about 2?

I'd rather have slots and tonnage for 6 small lasers. Why? Their effective DPS is 1, still 0.2pts higher than an MG.

And that still ignores two important drawbacks of the machinegun: The need to maintain facetime and the need to stay in range. Mechs with lasers are much less restricted in terms of movement, because they can fade in and out of effective range. They also don't need to stare at their opponents, so they can roll damage much better.

Looking at dps values on paper is pretty much worthless unless you consider how things will go in actual gameplay.

[Mcgral18]

Some very simple (and largely minor) attribute changes can bring MGs up to par, and perhaps even good:

• Return the damage to 1.0, from 0.8
  
• Remove, or significantly reduce the CoF. Currently a 1.5M radius (measured where, I do not know, but it's a decent size)

Those changes result in more damage, where you want it.

[Madcap72]

Speaking of, jumped in the Urbie today with 1LPL 1 MPL and 4MG's. Faced off with a Hellbringer and started bug zapping him to distract him from another light he was goofing with. When he turned I started rattling him with the MG's and components started coming off like popcorn. Arms flying off, sparks shooting out the works.

Other guy got the kill though. Oh well, it's all teamwork.

[HerrRed]

I actually like MGs. Sure they could use a boost to armour damage but that is not how to use them. In my whm-6r I have two MGs and 2 spl firing at the same time. It is really effective. You have your ppcs and ll to do long range but even two mgs for knife work are really good. On cored components it is the best. I also have tge arrow and it totaly kicks *** and I also love my prime mad cat which is almost stock minus the mpl which I switched to a spl for heat mgm and extra heatsink (so more heat mgm). I also use the 2 mgs and they are enough for criting like mad.

I agree with previous poster that said that they are weight efficient but not slot efficient. Seems about right.

[Naduk]

Machine guns are not bad , I get lots of kills with them
HOWEVER
They are not as good as they should be
It's the same argument for flamers , it's a 1t weapon
It needs to be on par with the other 1t weapons
If they cannot compete with a medium laser then it simply won't be used

Machine gun is 0.5tons but you need a min of 0.5tons of ammo before you can shoot it at all

It should be doing the 0.12 damage it was doing

[TheCharlatan]

I'm not sure damage is worth changing, but it's ridiculous how inaccurate MGs are.

[Greyhart]

TheCharlatan, on 13 April 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

I'm not sure damage is worth changing, but it's ridiculous how inaccurate MGs are.

yes where are all the people saying that they don't use MG's because of the CoF and that they need less skill because they aren't pin point.

[MeiSooHaityu]

If you want a MG loadout worth anything, then you want this...


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

Even then, it might be mediocre with this game's handling of MGs.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 13 April 2016 - 04:15 AM.