159 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Navid A1, on 12 April 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Failed logic.

show me a .50 cal sniper rifle that can fire faster than a pistol..
Compare apples to apples.
If you are talking mounted weapons... why don't you compare a minigun to your 50.cal.

Longer cool down for larger racks is perfectly fine if LRMs are faster and have the same spread.
The longer cooldown means it takes longer for the loader to fill all tubes for larger racks.... this is a very simple concept!

So tank weapons and naval weapons are interchangeable, but my example isn't? Ok.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Want to buff LRMS?

#1.Get Paul to balance the Radar Deprivation module.
#2. Give missles more velocity so chance for hits goes up.
#3. Normalize accuracy cones better. (no more huge difference between accuracy from 5-20)
#4. Give us a more difficult targeting system. (smaller lock on radius for target, but longer target retention once lock has been achieved)

Edited by Mister D, 13 April 2016 - 02:19 AM.

[Rocket2Uranus]

lets make PPC generate zero heat.
Yeah lets just buff everything lol.

lets also make direwolves move at 150kph too

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Rocket2Uranus, on 12 April 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

lets also make direwolves move at 150kph too

No way...are you crazy?

Gotta make sure light mechs can fondle their behinds without any threat.

[KING PRoCaT]

Oh look another thread trying to make lights unplayable garbage machines that have to spend all their weight on tons of AMS.

[KING PRoCaT]

Navid A1, on 12 April 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Failed logic.

show me a .50 cal sniper rifle that can fire faster than a pistol..
Compare apples to apples.
If you are talking mounted weapons... why don't you compare a minigun to your 50.cal.

Longer cool down for larger racks is perfectly fine if LRMs are faster and have the same spread.
The longer cooldown means it takes longer for the loader to fill all tubes for larger racks.... this is a very simple concept!

This shoots much faster than a common pistol. Also this was used by carlos hathcock in vietnam who was a sniper.

[Navid A1]

KING PRoCaT, on 12 April 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

This shoots much faster than a common pistol. Also this was used by carlos hathcock in vietnam who was a sniper.

Failed logic II.

In what world comparing a machine gun with a pistol in terms of rounds per min makes sense.
I can't believe i have to explaining these stuff.

[KING PRoCaT]

Navid A1, on 12 April 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Failed logic II.

In what world comparing a machine gun with a pistol in terms of rounds per min makes sense.
I can't believe i have to explaining these stuff.

Except it is a rifled weapon that was used specifically for sniper purposes now go suck a fat one you pretentious wannabe.

[Navid A1]

KING PRoCaT, on 12 April 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

Except it is a rifled weapon that was used specifically for sniper purposes now go suck a fat one you pretentious wannabe.

I am sorry you don't understand the concept of rate of fire and how it is applied to Machine guns and semi-auto pistols.
If it helps, look up machine-pistols and do your comparison again.


anyway, back on topic.


LRMs need a velocity increase in general (or even accelerating speed profile), and large racks need to have tighter spread (same as 10 or 5)

[El Bandito]

StaggerCheck, on 12 April 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

Navid, if all the LRM 5 packs are hitting concentrated Center Torso, don't you think that would be more over-powered than my suggested 'bone' targeting? Beyond that, if I've already said that the LRMs work on a flatter trajectory when in LoS of the target, I was just clarifying the Narc and TAG situations for the high arc.. so yes, as it is now.

Except they don't all hit the CT. LRM5s, unless they are augmented by LoS + TAG/NARC/Artemis, doesn't focus on a single location.

KING PRoCaT, on 12 April 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

Oh look another thread trying to make lights unplayable garbage machines that have to spend all their weight on tons of AMS.

If you have issue with LRMs in a Light mech, you are playing it wrong, AMS or no. Most Lights have 100+kph speed to get into cover very quickly. And one big launcher is more deadly to Lights than chain-fired LRM5s, cause the big launcher usually hits the Light's legs due to spread.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

there is no simple buff for LRMs possible - make them even slightly better and they will be the only weapon in the lower tiers.
See my activity meter -

You need a complete redesign:

In short 2 modes like for ECM: indirect and direct

indirect are slow and have a range of 2000m
if a spotter get a lock - the LRM boat just have to press fire. No target choosing, just fire

the direct mode get a better precision mode where you can lock on a specific component

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 April 2016 - 12:03 AM.

[EurakaLi]

actually I did one game blow away like 300+ lrm on a kit fox that was red and not killing it for a half mins and not killing it...I keep the lock on the whole time (artism IV not working 100% coz he was in and out of my LOS)and he running in the new map in an somewhat open area,,,but since it was too fast those lrm hardly hitting him each time only land 1-2 lrm on it sometime hit 0... (maybe something else,I only remember it was those super small mech)...it was killed by someone else in face at the end coz he ran to him.

tho light really not good target for lrm,and really need not to worry at all if you running anywhere faster then 130kph
hell you even can fleeing from 500 m to 800 m before those lrm hit you

[EurakaLi]

Karl Streiger, on 13 April 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

there is no simple buff for LRMs possible - make them even slightly better and they will be the only weapon in the lower tiers.
See my activity meter -

You need a complete redesign:

In short 2 modes like for ECM: indirect and direct

indirect are slow and have a range of 2000m
if a spotter get a lock - the LRM boat just have to press fire. No target choosing, just fire

the direct mode get a better precision mode where you can lock on a specific component

I was thinking just allow ecm free mech for each weight class (like you can play raven 3L and art cheeter in light),if every weight class have a ecm mech new player would just use them at lower level until they getting better and have money for buy their own mech)
with ecm shielding you for free any situation get LRM rain to dead should be your own fault cannot blame anymore
and allow new player do the ecm shilding job will teach them stick to the team better not go out rambo mode..

I hardly think how long you need to show up yourself out of position to get killed by lrm ,any laser or cannon will finish you off long ago.so no new player will blaming lrm lol

Edited by EurakaLi, 13 April 2016 - 12:13 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

EurakaLi, on 13 April 2016 - 12:12 AM, said:

I was thinking just allow ecm free mech for each weight class (like you can play raven 3L and art cheeter in light),if every weight class have a ecm mech new player would just use them at lower level until they getting better and have money for buy their own mech)
with ecm shielding you for free any situation get LRM rain to dead should be your own fault cannot blame anymore
and allow new player do the ecm shilding job will teach them stick to the team better not go out rambo mode..

I hardly think how long you need to show up yourself out of position to get killed by lrm ,any laser or cannon will finish you off long ago.so no new player will blaming lrm lol

No ECM and Radar Derp did make people clumsy - best to get rid of them and try to fight LRMs without those stupid tools.

One of the things that get on my nerves is the angle.... seriously - did they changed it to >60° so that just timmy and his brother are able to use LRMs oblivious to the terrain and the target they are shooting.

[The Basilisk]

Dingo Red, on 12 April 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

I'd say the biggest issue with LRMs have never been whether they're good or not, but just the fact that they're fire-and-forget weapons. You can sit behind a rock and lob LRMs and I don't think anyone really likes how little interaction the player actually gets with firing them.

They're not fun to fire, at least IMO, and they're not very fun for the player getting shot at.

That's why I'd want LRMs at closer ranges to direct-fire. This would ensure that LRMs actually had to be at range to be fully support weapon, and in closer range require some amount more of skill and positioning in order to use them. Plus, you would certainly have more reasoning to buff them if they required more skill to bring to bear.

There are several missconceptions or half truth in your posting.
LRMs are NOT FIRE AND FORGET.
You have to maintain the target lock on your side of the launcher till the missiles hit.
And no matter how much you ever buff LRMs, that is one of the main factors for them why they are not competitive.
You need time to lock on, you need flight time during wich you can't do much else. ( infact clan lrms are even worse in this regard since they need additional time to empty the laucher)

Next thing is, even if the name suggests something different, LRMs are no long range weapons.
They are most effective between 200 and 400m.
At shorter range their minimum range kicks in. (or dmg reduction for Clans)
Further out than 400m you have enough flight time for the target to just walk away.

So .... again a weapon you basicaly either have to go in the open to get LOS and a target lock for yourself, then have to point at the enemy for some seconds before you fire and now have to wait till some of your Missiles hit.....or stay covered and pray to havens that someone will get locks for you.

By my description....would anybody nerf thisweapon aymore ?
No ?
PGI did.
Not only it is ( together with SSRMs ) the only weapon with a TT like spread and/or Chance to miss without you beeing able to do anything about it, it is also the only weapon with several counters besides armor.
So...WTF???

LRMs are easy to USE but hardly USEFULL.
There may be circumstances where you get sometimes unluckily cought in the wrong place with two or three LRM boats lobbing Missiles at you but when this happens to you with 2 or3 LAZORVOMIT^TM Timbis or Crows or Black Knights you won't have the time to even regret it.

And that is the differnce in my opinion.
I see ppl doing wrong moves and then get cut down in split seconds by concentratedLaser, AC or PPC/Gauss fire.
They sometims complain but not that much.
But let them get rained on by LRMs for some minutes with minimum effect.....LURMAGEDDON IS HERE !!!!1111

[iamsek]

Lrms are great.
Love the woosh.

[xe N on]

Karl Streiger, on 13 April 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

there is no simple buff for LRMs possible - make them even slightly better and they will be the only weapon in the lower tiers.
See my activity meter -

You need a complete redesign:

While it's true that LRM mechanic could use a redesign, there is - as already mentioned early in this thread - a very easy method: reduce ammo.

Reducing ammo while buffing LRMs will lead to
- stronger LRMs that can be quite deadly
- lesser use as pure primary weapon (because of ammo limitation)
- less LRM spam or at least a very short one (because wasting ammo hurts)


LRMs would become less a skill weapon as direct dire weapons, but a tactical weapon (remember, "Thinking's Man Shooter").

Reducing ammo can be done in several ways:
- decrease the amount of missiles / ton
- limit the amount of ammo per launcher
- increase the slot size of LRM ammo

The latter way could lead to a quite balanced and even realistic system. Though not heavy, missiles consume a lot of space. Currently for 1 slot and 1 ton you get 180 (!!!) missiles. That is quite much.* If LRM-ammo would however take 2 or even 3 slots, you would have to carefully balance your amount of ammo against other equipment.

* For example
LRM: 180 ammo / ton = 180 damage
AC2: 75 ammo / ton = 150 damage total
AC20: 7 ammo / ton = 140 damage

Only SRMs have a better ammo / damage ratio:
SRMs: 100 ammo / ton = 220 damage

Edited by xe N on, 13 April 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[Homeskilit]

LRMs will have issues as long as mechs share targeting data. Take away the free c3 and you can make LRMs much stronger with less risk of them becoming too powerful. It would also indirectly buff narc beacons and make mechs that carried them more important.

Also, isLRMs need significant buffs to compensate for being twice the tonnage of cLRMS and costing more crit space.

Edited by Homeskilit, 13 April 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[xe N on]

Homeskilit, on 13 April 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

LRMs will have issues as long as mechs share targeting data. Take away the free c3 and you can make LRMs much stronger

I never played battletech, but according to posts in this forum, C3 was never necessary to fire LRMs indirectly if a spotter is present.

For example: http://mwomercs.com/...e-dont-have-it/

So there is no such a thing as "free C3". However, there is a thing called ECM that clearly much more powerfull as in battletech lore.

Edited by xe N on, 13 April 2016 - 02:25 AM.

[Homeskilit]

xe N on, on 13 April 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

I never played battletech, but according to posts in this forum, C3 was never necessary to fire LRMs indirectly if a spotter is present.

For example: http://mwomercs.com/...e-dont-have-it/

So there is no such a thing as "free C3". However, there is a thing called ECM that clearly much more powerfull as in battletech lore.

I have never played it either but I got a totally different impression from posts on this forum then you did, though i could be completely wrong on the issue.

LRMs strength comes from their ability to influence any part of the battlefield from the users current location regardless of line of sight (provided there is a target lock). With direct fire weapons you need to see your target and potentially face return fire (not necessarily from your target but also from its allies). With Indirect fire weapons you can influence a battle or skirmish without that threat. Thus making them more powerful can be risky (to the game as a whole, not the user).

I do think if LRM users were forced to get their own locks (outside of narc and maybe tag?) then they could be much more powerful since there would be more risk involved in their use (outside of assassin lights).