23 replies to this topic

[Tamagoci]

With the event winding down what are your thoughts on the matter.

I bought my MADs for the event just to compare and here's what i think;

1st place WHM, tanky, XL safe, good firepower, DPS machine, excellent build variety between variants, excellent hitboxes – I don’t know how I survive half of the time; WHM-BW being my absolute favorite mech with 4MGs, 2LPL, 2MPL and SRM6+A and being just nasty up close you just face hug a timber or a dire and let it fall. I would even go so far to say I find them a bit OP, being the first IS heavy with which I confidently take on head on any TBR.

2nd place MAD; tanky, relatively XL safe, good firepower, DPS machine, haven't explored all the build options, had the most fun with them in the event to be honest, I was expecting them to be crap, but they are just mean fun

3rd place RFL; being the 60 tonner not that tanky, XL is a must for me because of the tonnage but hitboxes save them a lot, wild fun just because of all the variety it offers, but not being the front line mech lets it down, my favorite build AC20+LBX10+flamer+2SmL for close in fun. You can do dual AC20 but combining AC20+LBX10 (or AC10) gets you to alpha strike with no ghost heat.

4th place ARC; I run them on XL to get free tonnage, but that is tough as ST are huge, will try them on normal engine in the future, even more of a support mech than RFL really lets it down, can still be a lot of fun in the role intended, build variety is good but not great, and I'm still trying to find the build that really work me.

All in all, I would say WHM and MAD are your everyday mechs which do good everywhere, RFL and ARC are more suited to CW (FW), where they can really shine at being a part of the team.

Edited by Tamagoci, 14 April 2016 - 04:34 AM.

[theta123]

Gosh lad, why the small font?

1. Marauder

2. Warhammer

3. Riflemen

4. Archer

[TercieI]

Warhammer. Not even a conversation IMO. Then MAD, then ARC/RFL depending on style and taste.

[Podex]

WHM - The name "Brutus" comes to mind. It hits hard, is fast enough to get in and out, it's responsive, and you can see around you. Me likie.

MAD - My own personal coffin. It's slow and feels like a dog dragging its butt on the carpet. Powerful and very tanky, but I can't handle the unresponsiveness of movement. Me no likie.

The others - Don't own them and probably won't buy. They seem like they would be limited to certain niches.

Edited by Podex, 13 April 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Virlutris]

TercieI, on 13 April 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Warhammer. Not even a conversation IMO. Then MAD, then ARC/RFL depending on style and taste.

Deviating from topic a bit:

If you're rating them 1) WHM, 2) MAD, tied 3/4) RFL/ARC, where would you rate the heavy and assault Resistance 2 mechs (BL, MADedit, MAL) by comparison?

I'm thinking ahead to my next IS c-bill purchases, so while some aren't available (yet), I'd still like to get the lay of the land so I can save up

Edited by Virlutris, 13 April 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[TercieI]

Virlutris, on 13 April 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Deviating from topic a bit:

If you're rating them 1) WHM, 2) MAD, tied 3/4) RFL/ARC, where would you rate the heavy and assault Resistance 2 mechs (BL, MAD) by comparison?

I'm thinking ahead to my next IS c-bill purchases, so while some aren't available (yet), I'd still like to get the lay of the land so I can save up

The MAL you mean? I don't think it belongs in the same conversation as IS heavies. The BL-KNT is the runaway best IS heavy and probably the best chassis in the game. The 6&7-L are both amazing. The GHR comes second, it has some things it does better than the BL-KNT (5H is the star).

The MAL is also becoming a comp staple, it's very strong, especially the MX90.

[Virlutris]

TercieI, on 13 April 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

The MAL you mean? I don't think it belongs in the same conversation as IS heavies. The BL-KNT is the runaway best IS heavy and probably the best chassis in the game. The 6&7-L are both amazing. The GHR comes second, it has some things it does better than the BL-KNT (5H is the star).

The MAL is also becoming a comp staple, it's very strong, especially the MX90.

Yep, Mauler. It might not belong in the heavies-oriented conversation, but that would be why I noted I was going off-topic

So if I'm reading you right, for order of purchase, subject to balance changes: 1) BL, 2) GHR, 3) WHM, 4) MAD, 5/6) RFL/ARC.

I imagine this could get pretty far off the rails if we start talking about all IS heavies. Before I poked at the Unseen, I wanted to get an idea of where they stacked up against some of the others.

I've got the GHR, but nothing newer than the Wolfhound, so I wanted to comparison shop a bit. Mauler's gonna happen, question's when, which is why I mentioned it

[TercieI]

Your list looks sound to me.

If we throw in all IS heavies, yeah, messy.

[Dawnstealer]

Warhammer's great, but I also love the Marauder and Archer for different reasons. Rifleman's okay.

[Luscious Dan]

From my personal experience:

1. Warhammer

Trying to make it run PPCs is an exercise in frustration more often than not, but I've come to love the BW as a poor man's Mauler with quad AC5. You can do standard laser build on them as well. Does seem reasonably XL safe, as long as I remind myself I'm not an asymmetric STD engine build I seem to do pretty well.

Tie 2-3. Rifleman / Marauder

These are pretty similar to me. I really like the asymmetric standard engine 3N with dual UAC5 and 4ML. It reminds me of my Shadow Hawk, but with backup lasers instead of - jam chance quirks. I dig it. Haven't done too many XL builds yet, but I might have an XL280 in the all-laser version IIRC. Does OK for me, but generally the variants with no side torso structure buffs make me nervous when people stick an XL in there.

Marauder is a gorgeous mech, it's right around the sweet spot for IS standard engines (295-325 depending on build), and I get decent results in it. Lately I've had to swap BH2 from AC20/ML to LPL/ML builds for more reliable results, which saddens me a bit.

4. Archer

Tempest and 5W are OK, 5xLRM5 and 4xSRM4 in the 5W isn't bad, and you can either do XL with Artemis or STD without. Nice to have that option. I have horrible hitreg issues with SRMs a lot of the time (my Jenner IICs are the worst, I warp around like mad when I start using SRMs for whatever reason, on top of them barely registering hits against stationary targets), so I usually don't give them much play.

Overall I'm hoping PPCs get a little better in future patches, slight tweaks to heat and velocity should help the variants that waste their quirks on PPC buffs a bit more viable in their more traditional configurations. I'd still put the Warhammer PPCs in the torso though, their arms are too low

[Dawnstealer]

Luscious Dan, on 13 April 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Marauder is a gorgeous mech, it's right around the sweet spot for IS standard engines (295-325 depending on build), and I get decent results in it. Lately I've had to swap BH2 from AC20/ML to LPL/ML builds for more reliable results, which saddens

Try an AC10 - surprisingly also a sweet spot for the BH2. Bonus is that if you lose your big gun, your lasers are still enough to keep you in the game.

[Mole]

1. Warhammer
2/3. Can't decide between Rifleman and Marauder. I do something rather special with my Rifleman that I've never seen anyone do which is to give it 6 medium pulse lasers and 2 small pulse lasers. As far as terms of damage that I can output in a single game, the Rifleman wins. As far as survivability, the Marauder definitely wins.
4. Archer

Don't get me wrong, I think all the alpha lance 'mechs are good. But the Archer definitely drew the short straw. My Archer runs 5 LRM5s and 4 SRM4s. It's pretty nasty at both long range and short range. It's pretty fun when someone looks at my Archer lobbing LRMs at them and thinks "lol lrm boat" and closes to brawling distance only to get torn apart by my SRMs. Despite all that though, it is the 'mech out of the four that I have the hardest time performing well in.

[Dawnstealer]

I think the Archer's getting shafted in this poll: it's pretty tanky if run right. Just don't run XLs in them. Actually, that's pretty true with all of these - none of them are real XL friendly.

I run my Tempest like this and have never looked back:

TEMPEST

That high-mounted ERLL is really useful and the standard lets you survive for a good, long time. Even when I'm on the downside of a stomp, my Tempest is usually one of the last mechs standing.

[Luscious Dan]

High mounted ERLL would be useful if the Tempest could fit more than one LL up there, and if the cockpit wasn't in its junk. Doesn't help much to have a mount that high when you can't see over the ridge without exposing your whole torso.

LRMs aren't great options, you don't have ballistics, and plenty of other IS heavies have better hard points and/or better quirks for laser boating, so the Archer's niche is pretty limited to SRM brawling or milking that ECM for all its worth at range with large lasers.

Anyway I do feel all the Classic series of mechs are solidly middle tier or above in some cases, but they aren't top of the food chain in any categories. Unless 9xSSRM2 is a category, in which case the 5W wins by default.

[Altruis Lightbringer]

WARHAMMER!!??!?!?!

I must be running a crap build. I cant make it past the two minute mark.
can someone share this super aswome death dealer build?

[Luscious Dan]

For the Warhammer 6D, put 3xLL or 3xLPL in the left torso, and balance how many medium lasers you can handle for the rest without melting. I prefer a standard engine so I can give up the right torso if I need to and still live (Thunderbolt was the first heavy I bought and it shows), but big XL makes you handle much nicer. Just try to spread damage all around. I don't seem to lose side torsos too often in Warhammers unless I'm giving it up on purpose.

Something like this: WHM-6D or this: WHM-6D (XL version)

Many of the other builds are just maxing out on ballistics; dual AC10s, quad AC5 or sometimes 2xUAC5 with 2xAC5 for Black Widow. Basically you're building a 70 ton Mauler at that point

Edited by Luscious Dan, 13 April 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Holy small print batman. I must be getting old, I need my magnifying glasses.

Anyway. Here's my thoughts.

1. MAD
2. WHM
3. (huge gulf)
4. ARC/RFL

MAD is very survivable, as is the WHM. And both carry fairly good loadouts and are still reasonably quick.

ARC suffers from MDD side torso syndrome, without the cXL to help it along. Use a STD, don't have enough firepower. Use a XL, get murdered by everyone that tries to rip off a ST because it's so visible. Even if you DO use a STD, it's extremely easy to neuter it because it's the opposite of a Jenner; everything hits your STs.

ROFLMan runs hot. VERY hot. Hotter than Terra Therma covered in lava and jalapenos.

[Luscious Dan]

Rifleman in its stock loadout is silly hot. So take out the LLs and add armor, DHS, etc. until it stops melting Most of my builds use whatever ballistics + 4xML for backup weapons and they run acceptably cool. For engines, I usually run STD250 or XL280 if I have to run XL. I think Legend Killer needs XL255 for many of its big gun builds.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 13 April 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[Black Ivan]

For me it is:

1) Marauder
2) Warhammer
3) Rifleman
4) Archer

Marauder definitly is beast, very tank and good hardpoints.

[Tamagoci]

My build philosophy on most mechs is heat management up front, firepower second, focus being on sustaining that firepower. That is also why I am a fan of XL engines, you get to cram more DHS in mechs. But regarding ARC I must agree with this:

Luscious Dan, on 13 April 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

High mounted ERLL would be useful if the Tempest could fit more than one LL up there, and if the cockpit wasn't in its junk. Doesn't help much to have a mount that high when you can't see over the ridge without exposing your whole torso.

LRMs aren't great options, you don't have ballistics, and plenty of other IS heavies have better hard points and/or better quirks for laser boating, so the Archer's niche is pretty limited to SRM brawling or milking that ECM for all its worth at range with large lasers.

I had high hopes for ECM usage but so far I'm not impressed.

Edited by Tamagoci, 14 April 2016 - 04:44 AM.