12 replies to this topic

[TheMagician]

After the next patch, the plan is to take that version of the game, and use it for the next 6 months of the tournament. In many ways it makes a lot of sense. It is so that people can prepare and be using the same version of the game for those 6 months, and during the tournament, and all teams are competing against the same teams using the same version, which creates an equal playing field.

However, there is a huge issue with this decision, and it's why I think it needs to be reconsidered. In the May patch, or thereabouts, a major change will happen to the public version of this game with the changes to the way the heat system works (and a new power-like system added). This will have a significant ramification on the game, and people will end up playing almost 2 entirely different games, the general public one, and the tournament server version. Mech builds, and how they are played will have enough of a difference, that people might be tempted to just not play on the public server for the duration of the tournament. However, the private server will either likely not have a general queue, or will have so few people using it, that it's not workable, thus people will have to just use the private lobby system to try to practice. The problem is that people will end up not playing their best, as they general instincts and reactions will be based on the public game, and not the tournament version.

Instead, I propose that the server just stays updated with the game, this way people are always playing consistent from the public server to the tournament server. This will ensure that people are always playing to their highest abilities. This is consistent with other esports. I've seen major changes occur to a game just before a big tournament. In some cases, the tournament just bans new items/characters/etc., since not all players would have had enough time to test things. So this could still be the case, where no mechs released post next patch will be allowed to be used in the tournament.

[Ultimax]

I agree, I think it's a terrible idea to have two different versions of the game - especially with what could be potentially gigantic balance changes which could affect how the game is fundamentally played, how mechs will be selected and built, etc.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly, any big changes like the new spooky heat replacement should probably stay in the PTS for the major parts of the tournament, only in-between phases (where teams may have enough time to adapt to the changes) would probably be acceptable, though still potentially rough if the change is that large. Its really unfortunate this tournament is half a year for this reason though, since it puts any balance changes in a rough spot.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 April 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[LordSkyKnight]

I agree with Quicksilver. With PGI trying to take this the esports direction, we have to be very careful about making sure that any new or changed systems that affect tournament play are vetted out and working well befored they're released into any build that competition is played on. This includes the tourney build AND the ranked queue they're hinting at. If Solaris should happen to come out before the end of the tournament, it is absolutely necessary that Solaris ranked and the tournament build are the same. And that public queue and Solaris are the same. As Magician stated, it needs to be a uniform experience from the most generic practice in the public queue (yes pugging is mechanics practice, even if you aren't "playing seriously") to the top level of competition. You can't have 2 different games that everyone is playing.

[lpmagic]

I honestly think that the "tourney server or client" should be updated along with the normal game.

1. The meta should be way different by the time the finals roll around, and who in their right mind is going to want to watch an old version of the game that has basically no meaning.

2. Magician is correct about how practicing will be done, teams will be relegated to private lobbies in said tourney version, and with only 12 roster spots that means 6v6 at best and no variation to practice against different styles and tactics, hogwash. This severely limits the ability of teams to practice anything, making for potentially lopsided games as strategies prove out IRL vs. theorized.

3. Magician makes another good point in that, to prepare, people want to play and "science" if there is no large scale solo or group queue in the tourney build, then there is zero way to do so. Teams and designated strategists will be relegated to guess work, and while true science guys are pretty on top o' this stuff, they like to actually "test" stuff in a playing environment, they won't be able to.

4. My vote would be to update the tourney build apace with the game itself, honestly PGI wants people to watch and be interested from an e-sport perspective, by which I mean, they want people to see this and decide to come play the game, it will be a severe let down to new folks who watch this, and have to play an entirely different game (if the road map is a true indication of how many big changes are in store.)

Good post Magician

[HUBA]

The problem with a dynamic sever is that a shift in Meta/new features will force all teams to adept and because MWO has no pro (full time job) player this might cause teams to lose because they cannot practices/learn all the new stuff in time. Also there might be bug or exploits, so a well known version of the game is the best solution.

A problem with lag of practices because the tournament server has low population is also something that I wouldn't see to problematic. Maneuvers and the allover game awareness can be trained on the game server *** well (and a real 8v8 to practice wouldn't be in queue ether) Builds and heat management can be trained on the tournament server in a 1v1 or 6v6 with your team.

The game probably won't change much so there is no need for updates but if there are big changes then it is probably better to use the well known version and not switch to the new one and bug fixes and balance changes and...

[Frost Pendragon]

My recommendation is as follows:

Start prequalifiers with May's build. Play prequal matches until August patch. Announce and schedule a break for regional finals to resume post September Patch. Release the new system in August and allow players 1 month to adjust to the new mechanics and reshuffle. By announcing this early, we can plan on that scheduled break.

Last I checked, there were 122 teams signed up: I do not know the break down NA/EU/AP, so I'm going to use mrbc's distribution as a proportion. AP/EU/NA = 14/45/63

62 matches /team could be done in 10 weeks @ 6 matches per week, which is doable, 2 nights of 3 matches isn't that burdensome.

Edited by Frost Pendragon, 14 April 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I agree just use the public builds for the tournament and use the test server for testing the new energy system or what ever is coming.

[Liveish]

If they had no games 7 days after the patch, so they can remove bugs, stuff up and over Quirks it could work.

[Rushin Roulette]

Actually I like the fact that you have a steady level playing field for every match. That means no complaint from a good team that one patch ruined their play style and favours another equally good team for the match which would have gone the other way earlier.

However, the problem still arises in how to train for the matches when the Tournament server is on a different version that the one where everyone can join in for training. Id suggest, that anyone can play on the tournament server with equal conditions on non-tournament days. Everyone of course also includes non participating players and only private lobbies are possible. This way you can train against other units or unit internally to get a hang of the mechs, quirks, tech and strategies.

On tournament match days, only the registered players are permitted to log into the server and play.

A second alternative would be (only possible if the tournament build server is not the PTS server) that the PTS server is open for everyone with the May 17th patch for the duration of the tournament. This way you can play on the regular server. Train on the PTS server and hold the tournament matches on the Tournament server.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 15 April 2016 - 12:19 AM.

[Aresye]

HUBA, on 14 April 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

The problem with a dynamic sever is that a shift in Meta/new features will force all teams to adept and because MWO has no pro (full time job) player this might cause teams to lose because they cannot practices/learn all the new stuff in time.

All teams would have to react at the same time. PGI could probably implement a 1 week pause for any major changes in order to give teams time to adapt, but adapting to changes in the meta/gameplay is a team skill just like any other.

The other issue that OP sort of touched on is practice. Yes we know that we'll be able to practice in private lobbies, but if the tourny build is locked to ONLY players that are on the roster for a participating team, then the best you can do is 6v6. I'm pretty sure most teams wouldn't be too keen on scrimming other units mid-season, potentially compromising their own plays and tactics in the process.

If the tourny and public build are kept up to date with each other, then we have the ability to practice with other unit members that may not be on the tournament team.

Either that, or allow an extended roster for another 12 players that can be given access to the tourny build for the sole purpose of helping the main team practice.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Lets be honest.

PGI are never going to get that change out the door on time and functioning.
The tournament build should stay up to date until the patch with the change to how the core system design works.

At that patch juncture the tournament build should be locked off. There is absolutely no reason the tournament should use it, it would be better for them to keep it in QA (LOL) until post tournament or at least until the finals, The tournament build can remain as is for the finals.

I'd like to see them just remove cbill and xp costs in the tournament build (or set everything to 0) rather than supply a quantity of funds to ensure nothing is off limits and the playing field is level

Then it just comes down to the teams themselves.

Edited by Oderint dum Metuant, 25 April 2016 - 05:20 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Whatever they decide, I certainly hope that such desperately needed updates such as re-scaling and the new heat scaling/power draw system are not locked out of the public game simply because it may disrupt the 1000+ players who will be competing in the Tournament.

Russ stated they were locking the Tournament build after the May patch. The re-scale and the heat management system are supposed to be in June and maybe July respectively. Delaying their release until after the Tournament in December would be unacceptable.