15 replies to this topic

[BabyCakes666]

flamers are great for overheating someone but no dmg

1 ton for a flamer is ammo laz DHS ect.

so here is my plan for the flamer.

:1dmg and no more crits

:all the heat and anti spam workings of the flamer keep them

:rage is 100m now

:make it look cooler and less like a crappy blow torch i cant even see it on snow maps just looks **** D:

Now flamers are good you can dmg some one and taking1-2 will work out for brawling

flamers on lights will give them more DPS

no crits because they overheat some one so that there nerf

and the anti spam works just fine so boating them will not work out side of a joke build

flamers need work

PGI crappy graphics bandaid makes them look crappy and i cant see them most of the time seeing at its a week light saber or a crappy blowtorch

just make flamer look cool and give them 1dmg or just make flamers 0.5 tons they dont do dmg so y take one for 1ton?

ps. flamers do no dmg so y do they still crit ???

Edited by BabyCakes666, 11 April 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Sheesh... talk about not knowing what weapons are meant to do in the game.

Flamers are there to cause heat to opponents and thus shut them down, not damage them. In that sense they are finally doing what they are meant to do after years of being over-borderline useless but looking cool.

The other thing you talk about is crit chances on flamers being higher... so what, who cares? We are talking about the possibility of dealing a wopping 0,2 or 0,3 damage instead of 0,1. a chance of double or tripple damage fro next to nothing is still next to nothing.

Flamers are a defensive weapon instead of an offensive weapon. They cause the enemy to deal less damage to you becuase they either have the choice of shooting and overheating past the threshold, or to tank the heat until they are able to shoot again later.

This is like asking for Balistics to deal heat to the opponent mechs, because all they do is cause damage and screenshake.

[BabyCakes666]

its a giant blowtorch it has to do some thing other then nothing and it dose nothing dmg wise

as for taking one its still to heavy make it 0.5 tons like the clan one if it dose no dmg

its like CC its just heavy and dose very little if it was lighter then packing one would be a better idea but there still to heavy

1 ton for 90m rage and no dmg but overheat with crits

my flamer is 1ton 100m 1dmg and it over heats no crits

packing 1 flamer would be great for a light with low dps that one mount/ton could be better used for wepons and ammo

packing 1ton weapon that dose nothing but over heat some one not that great

[Wintersdark]

BabyCakes666, on 11 April 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

its a giant blowtorch it has to do some thing other then nothing and it dose nothing dmg wise

as for taking one its still to heavy make it 0.5 tons like the clan one if it dose no dmg

its like CC its just heavy and dose very little if it was lighter then packing one would be a better idea but there still to heavy

1 ton for 90m rage and no dmg but overheat with crits

my flamer is 1ton 100m 1dmg and it over heats no crits

packing 1 flamer would be great for a light with low dps that one mount/ton could be better used for wepons and ammo

packing 1ton weapon that dose nothing but over heat some one not that great

In a 1v1, as things are if you're in the faster mech a flamer is an I-WIN button. It certainly does not "dose nothing". It's certainly imperfect as it is, but damage is NOT the fix. Without damage, the flamer is a utility - you may as well complain that a TAG or NARC is useless, because neither do damage. With damage, the flamer is Just Another Weapon. We went 4+ years of Flamers just being laser-machine-guns. It sucked. The whole time, it was worthless. At least now, flamers do something interesting.

And please, pretty please, spend a little bit of time trying to make your posts a smidgeon more readable. I understand that English is not your first language, but punctuation and paragraphs aren't that tough.

[VinJade]

to be fair to BC though, maybe they are mixing up TT rules with how MWO does things.

In the TT game Flamers can cause physical damage to the target, but it is mostly a mental weapon to use against the enemy, because all mech warriors have a fear of Flamers, even the oh so mighty Atlas warriors fear the flamers for the very reason you mentioned RR.

@WD
IIRC there is a narc pod that does in deed cause damage, I just cannot remember what it is called at the moment and too lazy to look it up, lol.

[Dee Eight]

Flamers in tabletop did the same damage as machine guns, and had the same effective range of them and small lasers (90 meters). They caused the same heat load as a medium laser when fired. As such they (and MGs) were primarily intended as an anti-vehicle and anti-infantry weapon ONLY and not as any sort of mech killer. Later table-top rules added the ability to inflict heat on a target mech, around the time they introduced the inferno SRM rules.

[VinJade]

@De
That would be correct, and they can also set forest & Cities on fire.
The reason I didn't bring up the old rules because they no longer are valid.

[BabyCakes666]

make TAG NARK and flamers 0.5 ton if there not a weapon CC and BAP should be lighter buy 0.5 as well

if its lighter then ppl will take it more

Edited by BabyCakes666, 11 April 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[VinJade]

IS & Clan tech should be no where near the same, all things need to be kept as they are when it comes to weight & crits.

IS does not deserve to have lighter TAG, ECMs, BAPs, Nor Flamers because they didn't earn that because the IS knocked themselves back to the 'stone age' unlike the clans who was not idiots and didn't waste anything.

One thing to also remember Clan & IS tech is not the same and shouldn't be made the same just because you want others to be able to carry flamers as well.

On a side note I think those using flamers are under the assumption that all players will allow themselves to be over heated to shut down instead of blowing themselves up while they try and defend themselves against the flamers.

I think Flamers need a longer cool down point than what they have.. they seem a tad over powered now to be honest as I seen someone using a mech normally not to over heat even in Terratherma blow themselves up due to over heating because of a couple of flamers and we are talking about the snowfield where that should be dang near impossible to do as I would have to fire my LRMs at the same time instead of waves over and over and over again along with my Lasers to over heat like that guy did with all Ballistic weapons...

When it comes to flamers I think they should remove the negative point for killing themselves when flamers are involved because they refuse to allow themselves to shut down.

One of the players I was talking to asked the same question in the game, "Why do players use flamers if they know they will just rob themselves of a kill when the player refuses to shutdown and leaving themselves sitting ducks?"

And I must admit I agree with the player with that and I think they also force their team to lose a chance for a kill because they use the flamers to try and force a shut down.

after all in the end sooner or later it will be a flamer = instant win if they are not nerfed a little...

Edited by VinJade, 11 April 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[Livaria]

Rushin Roulette, on 11 April 2016 - 05:01 AM, said:

Sheesh... talk about not knowing what weapons are meant to do in the game.

Flamers are there to cause heat to opponents and thus shut them down, not damage them.

I will say this, flamers might still need to do damage. The tonnage and hardpoints that could be spent on a flamer, is usually spent on a laser instead.

If a mech has very few energy hard points, a players weapon of choice is still probably going to be a laser rather than a flamer. If a mech runs out of ammo, a mech can no longer perform damage to the enemy with flamers.

If a mech has a large array of mostly energy weapons, it can include a flamer, however players will have to manage heat carefully if they do.

Because of this, flamers have a difficult time being common. A flamer is a very needy weapon. A mech will require good heat efficiency, good damage output, extra ammunition for other weapons, and sometimes enough speed to get into close quarters combat.

Edited by Livaria, 13 April 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Livaria, on 13 April 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

I will say this, flamers might still need to do damage. The tonnage and hardpoints that could be spent on a flamer, is usually spent on a laser instead.

Why do Flamers need to do damage? They are in the same group as TAG and NARC for classification (utility instead of weapon) imo.

Dont think of Flamers as being a weapon to destroy your opponent, but a utility tool to increase your armor against close ranged opponents. You cause high amounts of heat on your opponents forcing them to either shoot and shutdown, shoot and overheat suicide or to stop shooting/shooting with reduced weapon numbers until the heat goes down enough. All 3 mean that you are taking less damage overall and your pool of still intact armor is not reduced as much after the fight.

[Dee Eight]

It would be nice if they (in a future patch / UI version) had it so you could use flamers to set terrain on fire. Thus you could produce smoke screens / heat sources to spoof an enemy visually. ECM is great for radar invisibility... but its even better if you have a cloud of black smoke in front of you blocking you visually also. The burning river city map is great to show this. Run an ECM sniper and park someplace behind one of the smoke/flame sources... you're obscured from heat vision, and visual vision.

[VinJade]

@De
so then more or less make ecms even more of a jesus in a box thing?
so ECM+Flamer = god ability?

where you are more or less invincible, unless they make it where LRMs can be dumb fired where they will arc up and then down where the cross hairs are pointing to help balance out the god mode that the ecm+flamer would create.

[Livaria]

Rushin Roulette, on 13 April 2016 - 01:53 AM, said:

Why do flamers need to do damage? They are in the same group as TAG and NARC for classification (utility instead of weapon) imo.

Where does the idea that flamers are in the same group as TAG or NARC even come from? We as players have arbitrarily accepted for ourselves that flamers don't deal damage. Flamers are originally supposed to be a weapon. However, players themselves seem to be more accepting that it isn't. I guess the whole idea that flamers could just be a hybrid beetween the two is just not popular.

You won't see very many players mounting more than one TAG or NARC. However, Flamers are supposed to be different in that you can mount many of them for increased benefit, it's a serious commitment if you are sacrificing more than one energy hardpoint for a flamer. If nothing can fill in the damage gap for flamers, then there could be a problem since a player can't take advantage over an overheated mech.

It doesn't even have to be a large amount of damage either, just enough that it does less than a small laser.

Edited by Livaria, 13 April 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Why should it? Until now you have delivered absolutely no reason why a flamer should be both utility and damage at the same time without turning the flamer into a seriously OP weapon.

As for your point about having to mount multiple flamers to be effective and having nothing left to deal damage with... well that is absolutely your fault for using a rubbish build then. Please show me one serious build, where mounting one or even two flamers means that the mech does not have the possibility of dealing any more damage, be it with energy, missiles or ballistics.

[Livaria]

You really want answers don't you? Alright, give a moment while I do some research and planning. You're asking for a lot here.

Edited by Livaria, 14 April 2016 - 01:08 AM.