52 replies to this topic

[BSK]

latinisator, on 17 April 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

it is your opinion that Commander A9 perfectly mirrored in here: "I know what to do and where to do, everybody listen to me / do as I want".

My opinion is very different.

If people cannot commit to a unit, then at least they should be able to commit to a drop commander. If they cannot commit to either then do not play community warfare.

latinisator, on 17 April 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

By the way, our match was different: a nine-man of you with three pugs (I think), defending in counter attack. You ORDERED ME TO BE THE DROP LEADER (cause I was no.1 in the queue), which I refused two times. Firstly because no and secondly because you were the team (as I told you ingame). I did share some armour with you but when realising this would not help much and I got blocked and received "some" ff blowing out my right torso, I ran off and flanked (as some of your unit did). We won (pwned the oppfor), I did reasonably ok (upper third on the scoreboard), you did better (best maybe?).

Your memory is fooling you. Three games in a row you played with us. And every single game it was MY UNIT that pushed on the agreed point in time while you stayed in the back. It was MY UNIT that made the announced gen rush, while you stayed in the back.
So against a superior enemy we granted you a win with 500 to 750 damage dealt by pilots from MY UNIT while you made more than 2.000 damage without any sacrifice. That's why we wanted to see if you have the awareness that you are leeching on our sacrifices to win the game. That's why against an inferior enemy we wanted to let you take control and be the first to push to make some sacrifices to win a teamgame.

latinisator, on 17 April 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

So I make my point, trying to defend some of the soloist behavior. That is all.

Yeah that's why you bash my unit twice in this thread before I even posted here. Makes sense ..

[H I A S]

I will never listen to bad calls, i will neve commit to a bad dropcaller and i will never shoot static polygons till the enemy is dead.
Planets will never matter for me, when i PUG in CW. The only reasons to play that boring gamemode are Cbills, XP an LP.
Maybe i will switch my mind with Phase3, but i dont belive in it.
Just my 2 Cbills.

[meteorol]

BSK, on 18 April 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

It was MY UNIT that made the announced gen rush, while you stayed in the back.
So against a superior enemy we granted you a win with 500 to 750 damage dealt by pilots from MY UNIT while you made more than 2.000 damage without any sacrifice. .

arivio, on 18 April 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

I will never listen to bad calls, i will neve commit to a bad dropcaller and i will never shoot static polygons till the enemy is dead.
Planets will never matter for me, when i PUG in CW. The only reasons to play that boring gamemode are Cbills, XP an LP.

That is a prime example of the conflicting interest in CW i mentioned earlier.
Many CW players (i'd even say the majority of the current CW population) are less interested in winning and flipping an area or tagging a planet than in making Cbills, XP and LP. Winning a match by gen rushes is pretty much the worst thing you can do when playing for Cbills etc. Considering the long waiting times between matches, the 200k win bonus don't make up for the fact that you are getting poor outcomes of the match itself. I'd guess (roughly) that even losing the match while focusing on kills and damage pays out more per hour than winning by genrushs.

With winning matches and tagging planets currently having zero benefits, it's understandable people are not too enthusiastic about winning matches by genrushing.

[BSK]

meteorol, on 18 April 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

Winning a match by gen rushes is pretty much the worst thing you can do when playing for Cbills etc.

Not really. You make more than twice the amount of money with fast matches compared to high damage long lasting matches. The bonus is 300k now btw. Our record for a gen rush in a CW match is 2:41 minutes playtime. A good gen rush takes 5 minutes and gives you at least 300k. Now those long lasting sniping stand-offs take last at least 25 minutes and when you get beyond 3.000 damage you get then 1.000k. Getting the bonus isn't certain because it's not uncommon for those long lasting matches to run out of time. Add 5 minutes for preparation and countdowns and you get including the bonus 600k for 10 minutes realtime compared to 1.000k for 35 minutes realtime.

Now if you want to conquer a planet you gen rush the attacks and then have the long lasting counter attacks: To get 7 of the 13 slots it takes at least 7 attacks and 6 counter attacks. If all those were long lasting matches of 35 minutes realtime you have 13 * 35 = 455 minutes or 7 hours and 35 minutes in an attack phase that lasts 7 hours and 20 minutes. So even if you win all your matches you are lacking 15 minutes, considering for every attacking dropship you have exactly one defending dropship. Thats why you have to gen rush to reduce the time down to (7 * 10) + (6 * 35) = 280 minutes or 4 hours and 40 minutes and get a buffer to balance out losses of pug teams on your side. Also, while the pug matches last 30 minutes you can do 2 or 3 successful gen rushes and have more slots. Additionally it makes a lot more sense to rush a planet up to 84% because then you have long lasting high damage matches in counter attack mode all the time. Not to forget that I have a real life and don't want to play 7 hours and 35 minutes to let someone bragg for his 5 twitch viewers about the damage he dealt.

Does gen rushing pay out for me? I got 970.000.000 right now waiting for the next module sale.
Does sticking with the drop commander pay out? Mo' damage mo' money.

[latinisator]

BSK, on 18 April 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

Your memory is fooling you. Three games in a row you played with us. And every single game it was MY UNIT that pushed on the agreed point in time while you stayed in the back. It was MY UNIT that made the announced gen rush, while you stayed in the back.
So against a superior enemy we granted you a win with 500 to 750 damage dealt by pilots from MY UNIT while you made more than 2.000 damage without any sacrifice. That's why we wanted to see if you have the awareness that you are leeching on our sacrifices to win the game. That's why against an inferior enemy we wanted to let you take control and be the first to push to make some sacrifices to win a teamgame.

Ok, my memory is corrupt and fooling me. Sorry for bothering you. Since a HDD crash some time ago all my screenshots are lost, so I will rely on your assessment (saying that the only Mech in question was a HBR with 4 cERLL while the rest was and is pure brawler builds - cSPL / cERML / cSSRM / cUACs (max. 10, once or twice 5 and never 2) and I used to open with the HBR).

Official note: I will take back all the bad things I said about BSK and his attitude, hereby sincerely apologise to BSK and will from this point of time always claim the opposite. For I was blind and now can see.

[Mochyn Pupur]

With my old Unit (of some 18 months) the key to CW was always follow the DC's direction, whether as part of the Unit or as a PUG. The DC takes a huge decision to make themselves open to criticism by trying to co-ordinate a successful engagement and just to that very fact, I listen (watch if no VOIP) and do. Simple.

What I have started seeing when joining other 8+ pre-made drops, is a call to move or take an objective, only to find you and the few other PUGs are the only ones there and being used as bait for the rest of the drop, so obviously, the responsibility needs to fall on both sides.

That said, sometimes I have also synch dropped with pre-mades who have called well and by following those calls, pulled in 3 or 4 outright wins in under 45 mins including waiting for the opposition, so the call on xp/cbills doesn't always stand just because of the bonuses you are collecting. CW is very much a case of "horses for courses", if the mode fits play it if not don't - stick to whatever you enjoy and fit in with best.

[H I A S]

meteorol, on 18 April 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

That is a prime example of the conflicting interest in CW i mentioned earlier.
Many CW players (i'd even say the majority of the current CW population) are less interested in winning and flipping an area or tagging a planet than in making Cbills, XP and LP. Winning a match by gen rushes is pretty much the worst thing you can do when playing for Cbills etc. Considering the long waiting times between matches, the 200k win bonus don't make up for the fact that you are getting poor outcomes of the match itself. I'd guess (roughly) that even losing the match while focusing on kills and damage pays out more per hour than winning by genrushs.

With winning matches and tagging planets currently having zero benefits, it's understandable people are not too enthusiastic about winning matches by genrushing.

Its not about the outcome.
When i play this boring ****, why should i make it even more boring with a objectiverush? Im here for shooting robots.

Quote

Our record for a gen rush in a CW match is 2:41 minutes playtime.

What a waste of time. gg

[BSK]

arivio, on 18 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

What a waste of time.

So is arguing with a competetive player about community warfare ..

[illudium Q 36]

Thank you, BSK, for clearly explaining the Genrush logic. -MS- beat your best Genrush time on 11-23-15 at 2:33 minutes with a wave of Artic Cheetahs on Sulfurous Rift. They just jump jetted right over the closed gates and sacked the Gens.

WONDERFUL FUN. Thanks for playing. Also thanks for showing a reason why some PUGS opt to remain outside of any unit larger than a single player.

Edited by illudium Q 36, 18 April 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[Icantswim]

Commander A9, on 16 April 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

"I'm going to play the game my own way."

Do you know how many times i hear that? You are trying to give some advice and people are getting all offensive, especially those piloting LRM boats. "Don't tell me how to play", "don't tell me what mechs to use" and all times favorite "And what are you gonna do about it?"
The funny (or sad?) part is those pilots don't improve at all. They couldn't get 1000+ dmg neither half a year ago nor now.

Commander A9, on 16 April 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

If you want to win, follow the drop commander's orders, no matter who they are or what team they belong to.

I have to disagree with this one. Maybe in your case of almost full premade it's true. But it's not necessarily true in all pugs drop.
1. First of all, there are matches where you can tell from the start that you can't win. Experienced commander would call to play defensively to get more dmg and C-bills. Yet what I hear all the time is "let's try and rush objectives for that 200K C-bills reward".
2. With that comes another problem. Not all commanders are equally good. Last week I had a match where my team lost. During last minutes of that match our commander called us noobs, pugs, stupid - you name it. Guess what was his total score? 450 dmg on 4 mechs. Can you imagine that? And we were defending.
3. So yet another issue is that anyone can take command and we don't know whom to listen to. On numerous occasions I tried to correct commanders when they were about to make mistakes. Yet nobody listened to me. All I was getting were: "dude, learn to play" or even "who the f*** cares!?". To tell the truth, I still can't figure out what it takes to make people actually listen to you. Is it some fancy unit tag or maybe a ridiculous color scheme? I don't know.

Edited by Icantswim, 18 April 2016 - 11:04 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

Commander A9, on 16 April 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

An unaffiliated player said something to my -MS- team tonight that disturbed me.

We dropped with less than a full 12-man, so we picked up a pug or two. When the drop commander attempted to deliver orders about which gates to attack and which direction we would push, this particular player said, and I'm quoting now:

"I'm going to play the game my own way."

Said player proceeded to refute the drop commander's orders, and got himself killed a number of times when he failed to follow drop commander's orders.

People, simply: Community Warfare is not a mode where you can "play the game your own way" and expect to win, or perform at your highest potential. If you want to win, follow the drop commander's orders, no matter who they are or what team they belong to.

If you want to pug it up, do whatever the hell you want, and knock around doing your own thing, Community Warfare is not for you. Especially when the major competitions like Tukayyid roll around.

Its not so black and white. Sometimes the best way to pug is to be out for yourself, especially when there are no premades on your team. Cuz at the end of the day 99% of the time the premades are gonna win, and in pug life the only thing that matters is how many loyalty points you get when the match is over.

What if I'm in my ranged poking medium or light and the drop commander wants everyone to brawl? I'm I gonna facehug and fight for position with actual brawlers and most likely get myself killed cuz thats not what my mech was built for? Nope! I'm gonna do my own thing. Pug life. Un-coordinated decks, chaos, anarchy, no mans land.

[DarklightCA]

Being a drop commander for a pug team is like trying to coordinate a pug team in any other game, it's hard and it's always a hit or a miss. There are always players who don't want to coordinate with their team or strangely have some weird resentment towards units playing Community Warfare.

Complaining about them on the forums is not going to solve any of that, all you can do is keep trying to drop command and show other pug players why a coordinated team is effective in Community Warfare for the pugs that want to coordinate.

[meteorol]

BSK, on 18 April 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Not really. You make more than twice the amount of money with fast matches compared to high damage long lasting matches. The bonus is 300k now btw. Our record for a gen rush in a CW match is 2:41 minutes playtime. A good gen rush takes 5 minutes and gives you at least 300k. Now those long lasting sniping stand-offs take last at least 25 minutes and when you get beyond 3.000 damage you get then 1.000k. Getting the bonus isn't certain because it's not uncommon for those long lasting matches to run out of time. Add 5 minutes for preparation and countdowns and you get including the bonus 600k for 10 minutes realtime compared to 1.000k for 35 minutes realtime.

Now if you want to conquer a planet you gen rush the attacks and then have the long lasting counter attacks: To get 7 of the 13 slots it takes at least 7 attacks and 6 counter attacks. If all those were long lasting matches of 35 minutes realtime you have 13 * 35 = 455 minutes or 7 hours and 35 minutes in an attack phase that lasts 7 hours and 20 minutes. So even if you win all your matches you are lacking 15 minutes, considering for every attacking dropship you have exactly one defending dropship. Thats why you have to gen rush to reduce the time down to (7 * 10) + (6 * 35) = 280 minutes or 4 hours and 40 minutes and get a buffer to balance out losses of pug teams on your side. Also, while the pug matches last 30 minutes you can do 2 or 3 successful gen rushes and have more slots. Additionally it makes a lot more sense to rush a planet up to 84% because then you have long lasting high damage matches in counter attack mode all the time. Not to forget that I have a real life and don't want to play 7 hours and 35 minutes to let someone bragg for his 5 twitch viewers about the damage he dealt.

Does gen rushing pay out for me? I got 970.000.000 right now waiting for the next module sale.
Does sticking with the drop commander pay out? Mo' damage mo' money.

Iirc, win bonus is only 300k with premium.
And... yeah. Those numbers add up when comparing a good genrush (winning on first Wave) against the worst possible outcome of a game focused on kills (lost after 30 minutes), while leaving LP (the main reason for many to play CW), XP and waiting time out of the equation. As mentioned, tagging planets doenst matter for the majority of players right now.

Reality is: i have seen both, 48 kills in 15 minutes and BSK initiated genrushs failing horribly to pugs in games that dragged out for longer than 20 minutes. When objectively comparing things( not a good and the worst possible Case), numbers are much closer than you make them look (not counting for way less LP for genrushing). But you are obviously heavily biased towards genrushing, so lets stop this right here.

Edited by meteorol, 18 April 2016 - 08:42 PM.