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Can We Please Get (Closer To) True Omnimechs Please?


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#21 VinJade

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:33 AM

@Karl
I hate DA, its one of the worst things to happen to BT, as it was done poorly by topps which forst BT creators to have to play catch up and watered down everything.

also the IIs I never liked, now if we just like they did with the Nova and just called them Loki KU or some other things then I would be all for it.

Almost forgot, you read the novels you would see many a warrior say such things about mechs, hell even Herb & Lorn Coleman stated that as well, they also covered how each mech such as the Timber Wolf which is the main unit of the Wolves while the Falcons have their own signature mech design.

heck the Smoke Jags had the Ebony as theirs iirc.

Edited by VinJade, 22 April 2016 - 12:39 PM.


#22 Lances107

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:31 PM

I get what your saying this will more then likely never happen but its a much bigger issue than the clan player base. I enjoy this game but the bug on this game is its not a true representation of the mechwarrior universe. Things like whats going on with the clan mechs only gives credence to such thoughts. Also unless I am mistaken they made several of the assaults allot smaller then they should be.

Their is one possibility that would do the same thing but would keep the flavor. Keep the omni tech as is but get rid of the number restriction. Example would be this right arm has ballistic and energy on it. The result would be you could put as many energy and basaltic you wanted on that arm so long as you had empty slots. It would have the same effect but it would not be a plain do what you will like MW4 series. The torso issue is must fix.

#23 VinJade

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:44 PM

@Lance
To be honest I would like the Omnis to actually be omnis and be allowed to place any weapon that they have space and tonnage for while keeping locked equipment.

Though I have a feeling when the IS omnis start to come out Russ will try and make sure they will not have any flaws or at worst miner ones to try and hide that fact.

on a side note to others who might wanders why I Play this game, that is because even with their draw backs they are the only ones to be close to BT(as close as Russ is willing to go) and it is still fun to play & the MWO fan base thus far haven't actually been toxic thus far.

#24 Botaine

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 05:36 PM

There should be omni hardpoints, just how there are missle ballistic and energy hardpoints. An omni hardpoint would be able to equip any of the three weapons types. This can be in addition to the body part swapping we have now. Many of the omni mechs we already have should have some of thier weapon hardpoints replaced with omni hardpoints. This should give us just a bit more freedom with weapons to help make up for the clans lack of beneficial quirks.

#25 VinJade

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 07:18 PM

They shouldn't even have hard points to began with.
They are called omnis for a reason, the way the system is set up now they are no more than a Mercury modular system with predetermined slots for one or two kinds of weapons at most.

#26 Botaine

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 07:50 PM

Then what is to stop you from mounting 30 machine guns or small lasers? Can you see how that might cause problems in gameplay?

Edited by Lehv, 22 April 2016 - 07:54 PM.


#27 Lances107

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:23 PM

30 machine guns-
.25 tons x 30= 7.5 tons
Damage on machine gun 2.4 damage nearly instant
30 small lasers-
.5 tons x 30 = 15 tons
Damage on small lasers 150 damage
Heat 90 heat
Heat threshold is 30 possibly of cutting back on the heat with one ton per heat sink. Yes you could separate the 30 lasers into different weapon groups but you would still have a heat problem.

On machine guns ammunition would become your biggest problem, you would need allot of ammo to keep up that 2.4 damage nearly instant threw a prolonged engagement.

A smart player never goes with one weapon type, its too easy to get out done, if you go with one weapon type. Using multiple types opens up options. For instance on my prime timberwolf I have two LRM 10s with 2 and 1/2 tons of ammo, one machine gun 1/2 tons ammo, three medium pulse lasers, two er large lasers, and two medium lasers. The LRMs give me a range factor with out risking getting sniped. The pulse lasers and machine guns are good for a unexpected close range brawl, and the Large lasers and medium lasers are my heavy knock down punch. My point is if they did this I doubt you would see very many mechwarriors going all one weapon type. Not to mention you still have tonage in armor, tonage in ammo, and your free tonage for weapons. All and all it would be difficult to go overboard like your describing, and even if you did you would just be setting yourself up for a fall.

Edited my post due to my original numbers being way off base.

Edited by Lances107, 22 April 2016 - 11:11 PM.


#28 VinJade

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 02:06 AM

I think all omnis should be allowed to mount both ECMs & APs as they should have access to such equipment as it is.
hell all mechs should have access to ECMs as they are not actually meant for one type of mech....

#29 Sasuga

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 09:47 PM

Someone (not on this forum) stated that the reason we can't stick two lasers on the right arm of a Hellbringer is because of the games "Cannon Flavor". The "Cannon Flavor" says Omni Mechs (called OMNI Mech meaning ALL MECH) are interchangeable hard parts and customization 'hard points'.

The books may have never expressed a Hellbringer with two lasers in its right arm because they would only express the most common variants. However, just as the IS players are able to swap PPCs for Lasers on their IS Mechs (which is very un-cannon in a lot of ways... The IS Mechs were more rigid, but then you did have some custom Mechs like the Hero Mechs) Clanners are able to customize their Mechs and to a greater degree.

More over, right now they give the Clan's 3 variants on some mechs, and then we're able to mix-and-match to get a decent build, while they give the IS a ton of varients that pretty much equal out to any combo a Clan Mech can make. They are essentially restricting build choices for the clans, where they shouldn't!

=-=-=-=

Now, in terms of raw firepower, I can slap a lot of lasers onto a Nova, or a lot of ballistic weapons onto a Dire Wolf and put out a lot of damage. I can also put out a lot of damage on a storm crow, or on a Ebon Jaguar, or any Mech really. Being able to stick an additional laser onto the right arm of a Hellbringer isn't about extra damage for me... Extra damage comes at the cost of something else, armor or heat, or both. The Battletech Universe is very good at making players pay in some form or another for more damage.

So, if I were able to put an additional laser onto the right arm of the Hellbringer, I would either have to lose the small laser in the head, drop some armor, drop some heat sink or ammo, or something. Its not like adding that extra laser spot in the arm suddenly makes the Hellbringer some unstoppable killing machine (although that's our goal as players with every Mech, right?)

Part of the reason I want the extra right laser is actually for ascetics. Its very ugly having that empty spot there, where there clearly should be a weapon. - The more piratical reason is the one I mentioned before, its for Anti-Light-Mech. If I'm in close combat with a medium and up, the head mount laser is actually perfect. However, light Mechs tend to move very quickly and I need the freedom of the arms to track and shoot them. In a Faction Warfare game, people tend to be more organized, and I love them, but in a Quick Match its always pure chaos... and that's fine in many other games... But in a quick match, you really have to be able to hold your own. While some can be said that I've been in Invasions where my teams mates were terrible and our line (if you could call it a line) melted under the enemy, in a Quick Match you have to be able to hold your own against anything. I need the small lasers to help me if I start getting attacked by lights.

Even in Faction Warfare, if I'm the one who hangs off in back to watch an approach, if I'm the guy who has to watch Beta Gate while the rest of the team is on Alpha Gate, I may need those small lasers in my arms to fend off an enemy light.

There are A LOT of good reasons why a Hellbringer should be able to place a 2nd small laser in its right arm, and I really can't see any good argument against it. Not balance, because the balance is in the tonnage/heat/armor cost, and there are already Novas that can strip the armor off any Mech in a single alpha. Not Cannon, because by the background story an Omni Mech would be able to. Not Art, because the art needed has already been created and is already in the game. Not that there isn't a variant (back to cannon really) without two lasers in the right arm, because the books wouldn't publish an infinity of variants, they'd run out of paper. Its an Omni Mech, here's a few standard varients for quick play and ideas, they're Omni Mechs make what you want!

Look, you want to say every Summon Chassis is built with Jump Jets, I think its dumb but that's actually more acceptable! You want to say that a targeting computer or ECM is locked to a chassis, that would actually make more sense! You want to say that they only have Endo Steel or Ferros Fiber and we can't switch between the two, or that the Hellbringer only has standard armor and we can't change it to Ferros Fiber... Ok, I can buy that! Because it would be hard to have interchangable parts if they parts came with different types of armor or internal structures. We lose flexability there. You want to say that there are fixed Armor Slots and Fixed Internal Structure slots that we can't move, OK, FINE! I can buy all that. Don't you dare say it doesn't make sense that for me to be able to strap a 2nd laser onto a Hellbringer's Right Arm. I'm not even asking for Six Lasers like a Storm Crow, although I bet the Clan's mechanics could figure that out very quickly.

There should never be a 'dead spot' in the artwork, and if there's a right arm a mech that can do it, then there should a left arm for the mech that can do it... with maybe the exception of the Summoner, that's such a strange Mech, its left and right arms are all weird. If there's a left arm that can do it, then there should be a right arm that can do it. The Clan mechs should be able to have symmetry for the most part. The Summoner really would be the only ******* Omni Mech I can see, all the rest were build pretty symmetrical.

They are Omni Mechs! Not IS, rigid, out-of-the-factory-all-the-same-mechs.

=-=-=-=

This isn't even something that changes the balance of the game! Why should I have to fight so hard for this!?

#30 Sasuga

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 09:52 PM

View PostVinJade, on 23 April 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

I think all omnis should be allowed to mount both ECMs & APs as they should have access to such equipment as it is.
hell all mechs should have access to ECMs as they are not actually meant for one type of mech....

I agree. However, I can actually buy into the ECM and Targeting Computers being stuck to a particular Omni Pod. Because, unlike the way that they have it now, the computer equipment would need a special spot in the body of the mech, it would need to be fixed in some how. The computers don't just slide in like weapons do in the Battletech Universe.

Remember, the Battletech Universe computers are like the computers of the 70s. They weigh tons and are only able to do simple computations that any pocket calculator can blow away. Battlemechs don't stand upright because of computers exactly, not like Asimo or the bi-pedaled DARPA robot we have now. Battlemechs stand upright because of the Neural Helmets. They use the human pilot's sense of balance to balance them.

#31 Sasuga

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 09:57 PM

View PostLehv, on 22 April 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Then what is to stop you from mounting 30 machine guns or small lasers? Can you see how that might cause problems in gameplay?


You can put a lot of small lasers on a Nova and/or Stormcrow. How many Stormcrows and Novas do you see on the field with small lasers? (I see them occasionally, but they're definitely not common.)

30 Machine Guns? Ok, where's your ammo? How do you get close enough to engage your target without being blown to bits? They punch your armor and that's a lot of ammo (presumably) that can go boom, and when it does you're taking a point of damage per round... Say goodnight.

There's a reason people didn't build mechs with 30 small lasers or 30 machine guns (often) in table top. All medium laser mechs were common, as Medium Lasers gave the best damage to heat ratio... Where do you think the Nova came from? They're not piratical. I say, go for it! You kit out any Mech with all the small lasers or machine guns you want. I'll bring the Hellbringer I have now, with an extra small laser on its right arm and tear you to shreds. Go heavy, you'll never catch me. Go light, you won't pack 30 of anything.

#32 Hornviech

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 07:48 AM

they could start in giving the Clan ER PPC the 15 dmg it should have.
Pinpoint not this spread dmg nonsens.
Also the Timberwolf JJ are not fixed for god sake !
There are omnis that have fixed JJ but not the Timberwolf.

#33 VinJade

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 08:28 AM

@Horn
The real reason is that Russ & those at pgi hates clans as he was forced into having them in the game by the owners of BT so because of that he goes out of his way to give the clans the middle finger in some form or another.

I do agree that items on mechs that are not fixed should not be.

Just you wait though when we finely get to the right time we will see IS omnis getting the love and not screwed over as bad if at all by Russ and Co.

and according to another poster Dee Russ had stated that he hates clans.

#34 Karl Streiger

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 11:15 PM

View PostHornviech, on 08 May 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

they could start in giving the Clan ER PPC the 15 dmg it should have.
Pinpoint not this spread dmg nonsens.
Also the Timberwolf JJ are not fixed for god sake !
There are omnis that have fixed JJ but not the Timberwolf.

The TimberWolf had no fixed JJs and this was a horrible idea at the beginning. Seriously the whole idea of a jump capable TimberWolf for MWO is bad. The Summoner had exactly one advantage - and with the TBR S this was taken away.

Well the 15 dmg ERPPC is one of those broken concepts of Clams of FASAnomics, like the no minimal range of ERPPCs- or C-LRMs or GaussRifle or IS LB10X .....
I don't say the whole concept of Omni Mechs is a good one. Its okayish at best.


View PostVinJade, on 08 May 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

The real reason is that Russ & those at pgi hates clans as he was forced into having them in the game by the owners of BT so because of that he goes out of his way to give the clans the middle finger in some form or another.

Quote?
And no they don't hate the Clans.
I HATE THE CLAMS - Reap the Whirlwind

#35 VinJade

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 05:12 AM

@Karl
I don't have the quote(lost as the thread was deleted), it was confirmed by Dee & dee is an avid Russ defender so for him to actually back up my thoughts on the matter means its true.

so unless you are calling Dee a liar I stand by my words.

also it is CLANs, and yes I know you insult BT Lore just to get under BTer's skin like a two year old or a troll....

#36 davoodoo

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 11:10 AM

Well try to build gausszilla in mwo.
Not enough slots.

But sure we can get away with hardpoints and slots ill just slap whatever ballistic there is on marauder up to tonnage and space limits and call it a day.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 May 2016 - 11:14 AM.






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