32 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

FupDup, on 20 April 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Trying to "balance" game modes with tonnage restrictions doesn't work, as it has been shown time and time again in several instances in this game.

If you bump it down to 45, people will just find the closest equivalent of the SCR/GRF/etc. in that weight range, and then complain about those new mechs instead.

There are fundamental problems with the modes and/or mechs and/or weapons that can't be solved by just letting people use bigger or smaller mechs.

Pretty much this. What I saw last night (and Scout is a REALLY fun game mode, by the way, even as freebirth scum running a Jenner) was 2-3 Streakcrows, ~1 Shadowcat, 1 Jenner IIC (with straight 6s or streaks). Out of about 10 drops, won two - one by killing all the Clanners, one because our capper (in a PB) was able to hide out until just before the dropship took off.

I think if you capped it below the Crows, you'd just see 3+ Jenner IICs.

[2fast2stompy]

While I think removing the tonnage limit would be amazing, it would completely destroy what I presume was the point of the mode in the first place: giving people a mode to run lighter, faster mechs and step away from 50% heavy mechs in quick queue and CW.

Team tonnage limit would massively slow down getting into a game, and it's pretty slow as it is.

I think a better solution would be something in line of tweaking the rules/goals to give the really fast mechs an advantage with extracting or something like that

Maybe buff the dropship damage so that storming the dropzone is the last resort and not likely to work against more than 2 enemy mechs

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 20 April 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Husker Dude]

I think the mode is pretty good now; Streak Crows are going to be popular and hard to counter, but tanky IS mediums like Griffins should be able to win in a straight fight, depending on pilot skill.
Streaks have very high damage output, but spread their damage and have a pretty considerable cooldown time, and Crows aren't going to be able to match the speed of many IS lights. I'm actually much more worried about a Jenner IIC loaded up with streaks, since they're much more likely to be able to chase down a light.

In the end, you've got to PTFO, rather than treating it as a new skirmish mode. I definitely enjoy the idea of making a Crow try to chase me across a big map, rather than having to just shoot it out to win, it's been fun over the first several games.

[Rattazustra]

Helsbane, on 20 April 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

Or, they could just, you know, let the IS have SSRM4s and SSRM6s....

You got structure and armor quirks, large pulse lasers from hell, laser duration quirks and the best LRM and SRM mechs in the game.

We got a streak crow.

So unfair.

How about IS just adjusts and runs some NEW setups that are not the same old cookie cutter nonsense? Some SRM6 heavy brawlers for example, quirked like a nightmare and tanky as can be? 4v4 is not 12v12.

Edited by Rattazustra, 20 April 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[Adamski]

Husker Dude, on 20 April 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

I think the mode is pretty good now; Streak Crows are going to be popular and hard to counter, but tanky IS mediums like Griffins should be able to win in a straight fight, depending on pilot skill.
Streaks have very high damage output, but spread their damage and have a pretty considerable cooldown time, and Crows aren't going to be able to match the speed of many IS lights. I'm actually much more worried about a Jenner IIC loaded up with streaks, since they're much more likely to be able to chase down a light.

In the end, you've got to PTFO, rather than treating it as a new skirmish mode. I definitely enjoy the idea of making a Crow try to chase me across a big map, rather than having to just shoot it out to win, it's been fun over the first several games.

The big problem is, the SCR has a great intersection of Damage, Speed, Hitboxes / Tanky.
The fact that cSSRM remove aiming from the equation, and only require piloting skill makes it extra easy.

The SCR runs at 105 kph, and has 23 tons of equipment, and the structure & armor of a 55t mech.

Griffin 3M is the tankiest 55t mech the IS can bring, it gets 17% bonus HP, can go 95 kph with an iXL engine, and has 25t of equipment. Of course, the 25t gets eaten up pretty fast when IS missiles weigh 2x as much, and still weigh more with a larger spread without artemis than the Clan version with artemis. And that 17% bonus HP is spread across every single section, but the mech dies as soon as it loses any single torso section or both legs.

Edited by Adamski, 20 April 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[Mystere]

Rattazustra, on 20 April 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

Just give scouting a 220 tons TEAM tonnage. That would make things more diverse.

Apart from that, so what? So clans have a slight edge at scouting now. Pretty much the only thing we got left. Everything else has been quirked away into oblivion.

Why even have a tonnage limit? Just get rid of it and allow Steiner lances. Why stop people who insist on bringing turtles to chase roadrunners?

JackalBeast, on 20 April 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

Wouldn't removing tonnage restrictions open up a whole new can of worms?

How?

2fast2stompy, on 20 April 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

While I think removing the tonnage limit would be amazing, it would completely destroy what I presume was the point of the mode in the first place: giving people a mode to run lighter, faster mechs and step away from 50% heavy mechs in quick queue and CW.

See first point above. Just use the larger maps or better yet create even bigger maps.

Edited by Mystere, 20 April 2016 - 10:37 AM.

[Helsbane]

Rattazustra, on 20 April 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

You got structure and armor quirks, large pulse lasers from hell, laser duration quirks and the best LRM and SRM mechs in the game.

We got a streak crow.

So unfair.

How about IS just adjusts and runs some NEW setups that are not the same old cookie cutter nonsense? Some SRM6 heavy brawlers for example, quirked like a nightmare and tanky as can be? 4v4 is not 12v12.

I was merely suggesting a technology solution to the 'fairness issue' tabled. As for builds, I was running my Cent AH for the first time in over a year last night putting down clan mech after clan mech in some very fun knife fights. TIG module and AC20/SRMs FTW, streaks be damned.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

What you wrote was captious and offensive.

So was your blanket statement about the design reasons behind certain mechs.....just because they don't exist in MWO currently doesn't mean they won't eventually. So if anything your statement only works provided we don't get mechs like those at some point in the game.

[lagartx3]

i actually belive that getting rid of the tonnage limit can be viable, IF the game mode its also tweaked to ensure that the scouts, the real ligth super fast scouts, will have an advantage over the atlas and direwolfs and heavy mechs that will drop, for instance, faster times for the arrival of the extraction team, and for an example, to put quircks for faster data download in ligth mechs that are supposed to be electronic warfare focused, like the ravens and such, or simply in all mechs below the 35 tons...

i mean, isnt scouting about... well, scouting and getting intel??? how can an 80 or 90 tons mech deal with ultra ligth mechs running arrownd collecting data and then vanishing at 130 - 160 km/h while they are moving at 40 -70 km/h?

Edited by lagartx3, 21 April 2016 - 07:06 PM.

[SaltyStrudel]

if we are talking about whether or not 55 tonners could be used as scouts; Smoke Jaguar used the crows for literally every conceivable task just because of how damn flexible it is at taking nearly any role. so yeah, it could be used as a scout, or a scout-killer. Plus, IS has more than enough mechs that easily counter the streakcrow that there really isnt a use complaining about it, especially without how much cheaper IS mechs are you can grind out a working counter in just a few hours. :/ just my two cents.

[RavenKnight86]

Why is everyone complaining about streak crows? Just take tanky IS mediums. Tonight we were taking HBK-4Gs with AC20 & 3 ML and wreaking these streak crows faces. Closest match was against KCom which took out 2 of us I think. It's about adapting to the tactics they use. Not many Clan Mechs are going to survive a couple salvos of 4x AC20s. Hell the last match we legged and stripped the last crow to run around and get more data points.

[Aresye]

I'm so sick of hearing about streakcrows in scouting.

OP, if you won in streakcrows, it's because the other side didn't prepare and/or execute a good scouting game. Griffons, Blackjacks, Hunchbacks, Shadowhawks, and pretty much every single IS medium that is built for brawling and/or has structure quirks should have no issue whatsoever in dealing with streakcrows.

Streakcrows are good at one thing, and one thing only, which is punishing clueless players who think the game mode "scouting" means "light mech." They are next to worthless against a deck of fast brawling IS mediums (especially if they have ECM), and can be run down by the faster, tankier BJ-1Xs that many IS teams field for their scouting mechs.

Welcome to the world of meta-gaming and rock-paper-scissor balance. IS teams bring lights? They better be prepared to face streakcrows. Clan team brings streakcrows? They better be prepared to face ECM Griffons. IS team brings ECM Griffons? They better be prepared to face super fast Ice Ferret pulse laser boats. Clan team brings Ice Ferret pulse laser boats? They better be prepared to face Oxides. IS team brings Oxides? They better be prepared to face streakcrows.

You starting to see the picture?

Edited by Aresye, 22 April 2016 - 01:18 AM.

[Mottfried]

Iam also very annoyed about the Streakcrows.

So my question is: which IS mech is countering the Streakcrow or JRII?
U are all talking about, but ich cant find an answer and it is defenitly not the griffin!