88 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MischiefSC, on 20 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Unless your faction has a bunch of bad pugs.

Or the other faction has skilled players in alts in the solo queue farming scrubs.

PGI has created an incredibly exploitable system.

So what we're saying though is the 4v4 queue can **** down the 12v12 queue and that's good for the population? That's like saying the side that happily ghost drops wins is good because they are more willing to do something unfun to win. So you get rewarded for being willing to not have fun in a game.

The end result is just less total players over time.

You get rewarded for going to the scouting 4v4 queue. Having a few 4v4 matches is entirely different than repeatedly going through ghost drops.

Would you rather scouting be an entirely pointless mode that offers a pitiful bonus so that we end up never doing it anyway and we just end up with what we had before? Besides, if a team has the scouting on 90% then they practically already won the planet from you similar to if they had just repeatedly beat you in normal invasion modes, they won.

[Exilyth]

DROPSHIP is no longer MVP.

The headshot rate on artillery just is evil.

[Cy Mitchell]

MischiefSC, on 20 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Unless your faction has a bunch of bad pugs.

Or the other faction has skilled players in alts in the solo queue farming scrubs.

PGI has created an incredibly exploitable system.

So what we're saying though is the 4v4 queue can **** down the 12v12 queue and that's good for the population? That's like saying the side that happily ghost drops wins is good because they are more willing to do something unfun to win. So you get rewarded for being willing to not have fun in a game.

The end result is just less total players over time.

While I believe that the Long Tom will be toned down a bit, I disagree that the 4 x4 have the power to shut down the 12 x 12. All the 12 x 12 have to do is start field 4 x 4 teams to properly scout the planets they wish to attack. Surely, the big units can put together a few competent 4 x 4 scouting units.

The real problem here is a couple of OP Mechs that are dominating the mode. They need to adjust the balance of the Oxides and Streakcrows. This was a problem before the scouting mode began but it has been pushed into the spotlight now. I am a Clanner but I will say that the Stormcrow, Jenner IIC and the Artic Cheeta need to be reigned in a bit. On the IS side the same goes for the Oxide.

[Afuldan McKronik]

They are actually balanced. The streakcrow is good for one thing. The Cicada does exactly the same thing the ACH can do. The Jenner IIC and Oxide are nearly identical. Teamwork wins this mode, at least in group queue. Maybe the solo queue needs to be limited to 35t, which would actually make sence. Factions arent going to spend as much on freelancers or mercs as they are on their loyal units.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

They are actually balanced. The streakcrow is good for one thing. The Cicada does exactly the same thing the ACH can do. The Jenner IIC and Oxide are nearly identical. Teamwork wins this mode, at least in group queue. Maybe the solo queue needs to be limited to 35t, which would actually make sence. Factions arent going to spend as much on freelancers or mercs as they are on their loyal units.

You know balance is perfect when both sides are calling the other OP.

I like this game of tactical rock paper scissors we are playing now.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Dakota1000, on 20 April 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

You know balance is perfect when both sides are calling the other OP.

I like this game of tactical rock paper scissors we are playing now.

Yep. Just complaining that someone found the rock to their scissor right now. Its actually quite difficult to rock a SCR in group queue. 2 LPL 3 ML seems to work for me.

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 20 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

You get rewarded for going to the scouting 4v4 queue. Having a few 4v4 matches is entirely different than repeatedly going through ghost drops.

Would you rather scouting be an entirely pointless mode that offers a pitiful bonus so that we end up never doing it anyway and we just end up with what we had before? Besides, if a team has the scouting on 90% then they practically already won the planet from you similar to if they had just repeatedly beat you in normal invasion modes, they won.

I'm saying long Tom should be powerful but not the utterly decisive thing it is now.

Or you're going to shrink the player base and all anyone will play is 4v4.

[Commander A9]

Drops too frequently.

Instantly hits the head.

Blast radius way too wide (not even 155mm howitzers today have that kind of a blast radius).

Makes organizing to attack or defend outrageously difficult.

But the way you beat it is to "grab the enemy by the belt."

Get in close so it drops on THEM, too!

Edited by Commander A9, 20 April 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[ArchSight]

That long tom steals more kills than dropship dan.

[Chef Kerensky]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is incentive to break 1 12 man into 3 4 man groups and scout.

And do what? Stomp people in groups of 4 instead of stomping people in groups of 12? I'm not really sure what they're going for.

Like, believe me when I say it is not even remotely difficult to crush people into the dirt in the scouting mode. In fact it's significantly easier

[MischiefSC]

Chef Kerensky, on 20 April 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

And do what? Stomp people in groups of 4 instead of stomping people in groups of 12? I'm not really sure what they're going for.

Like, believe me when I say it is not even remotely difficult to crush people into the dirt in the scouting mode. In fact it's significantly easier

So you guys still trying to dig Scoops out of a pile of unconscious h00kers and dirty blow so he can sign you guys up for Kurita or are you all in tagless queue, trying to save the earth by renewing it's oceans with fresh pug tears?

[1 21 Giggawatts]

I am almost at a loss for words with this CW phase 3 patch.....

I mean who playtested this and thought - this is great - the players will love this? Please tell me who, because we need his head on a goddamn pike!!!!! FIRE THEM!

The longtom is nearly as terrible for the team who has it - as the team its hitting. WE CANNOT GROUP UP AND ENGAGE AT MIDRANGE VS THE ENEMY!!!!! I cannot articulate how ******** this is. It basically becomes a game of 1 minute poking and engaging and then the next minute trying to get away from the enemy in preperation for the Longtom strike coming in... CW used to be all about moving as a group, focus firing, picking off isolated mechs etc. Now it is ALL about avoiding the longtom - whether its on your side or not. This is crazy....

With the longtom we have a weapon that is stupidly overpowered - and the ENEMY are the only people who have control over where it lands? Are you freakling kidding me? !I can only assume that you are all skill sharing at PGI and you let the coders become game designers for a day here. Seriously, this is next level stuff here. To me, it appears that there was ZERO play testing of this feature, which is almost as bad, as it shows PGI and Russ to be Liars. Russ specifically mentioned play testing all the new stuff in CW phase 3 in town hall meetings.......Really PGI?

There are so many other screw ups with this patch, that would also normally be a big deal, but the long tom trumps them all.


I think i have gone through a couple of the grieving stages for MWO with this patch, First there was disbelief - thast first longtom strike that killed 4 enemy mechs! our teamspeak server was just what the *&^%... then it happened again and again, EVERY 2 MINUTES!!!!

Anger - as our preferred game mode has been RUINED. Anger at the lack of testing. Anger at the lack of design thought gone into this.

Now i guess we are at the bargaining stage? What can you do to fix this PGI?

If that fails, i guess I am at depression - depressed i have sunk a lot of time and money into a game that COULD have been great.

Followed by acceptance - PGI tried, they failed, its just a game - lets move on and learn from this, never invest so much money into a game that gives plain bread today but always promises jam tomorrow...

I really hope PGI can stop this at the bargaining phase and LEARN from this monumental screw-up..... I felt encouraged when PGI pulled back from the brink of information warfare - BASED ON FEEDBACK from the public test server and ACTUAL TESTING FROM PLAYERS..... Why wasnt this tested in a similar fashion? I know it ruins the 'grand reveal' but if the gran reveal is as poorly thought out as this it just makes you look stupid PGI.

Edited by 1 21 Giggawatts, 20 April 2016 - 06:01 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 20 April 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

I'm saying long Tom should be powerful but not the utterly decisive thing it is now.

Or you're going to shrink the player base and all anyone will play is 4v4.

Why should it be powerful? Why should it be there?

Was there a call in CW for a nuclear device that drops every few minutes apropos of nothing? Was there any need for yet another map hazard that kills players so that you don't have to?

It's just another mechanic to make bad players feel good about themselves by allowing them to swarm a secondary queue so that people in the primary queue will have to deal with a free instant-kill button. Mechwarrior Online suffers from rewarding players for "I'm helping!" syndrome, and the long tom is this mentality of design brought to its natural conclusion: a bomb that kills a cluster of players every 2 minutes because you made a bar tick up outside of the match itself.

The easy way to avoid this, of course, is to go into the scouting queue instead and sync drop so you can murder players 4 at a time (this is absurdly easy to do)

[feeWAIVER]

Anyone who thinks there is any justification for an automated nuke on a 2 minute timer is a baddie that wants the game to be played for them. I don't like to throw around the term "cancer to the game", but in this discussion, I think it applies.

[MischiefSC]

Chef Kerensky, on 20 April 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

Why should it be powerful? Why should it be there?

Was there a call in CW for a nuclear device that drops every few minutes apropos of nothing? Was there any need for yet another map hazard that kills players so that you don't have to?

It's just another mechanic to make bad players feel good about themselves by allowing them to swarm a secondary queue so that people in the primary queue will have to deal with a free instant-kill button. Mechwarrior Online suffers from rewarding players for "I'm helping!" syndrome, and the long tom is this mentality of design brought to its natural conclusion: a bomb that kills a cluster of players every 2 minutes because you made a bar tick up outside of the match itself.

The easy way to avoid this, of course, is to go into the scouting queue instead and sync drop so you can murder players 4 at a time (this is absurdly easy to do)

So you want scouting to be significant. If it was an arty strike every 2 minutes that'd be powerful too - remember, you can't balance universal game factors to top tier.

The problem right now is that 4v4 is more powerful to win worlds than 12v12. You get long Tom and you can have scrubs show up in 12 lights and just hide until arty kills all attackers.

Should winning 4v4s be important? Sure. 90% of Intel wins should be powerful. Not just to great units who can translate sensor sweeps into certain wins but for puggles and scrubs.

Don't lose 90% Intel. Davion has yet to lose Intel to that degree. If we did we'd let them eat ghosts in 12s until we were way down again.

Not a fan of the LT but I get the purpose.

[Wing 0]

Whats shown here is NOTHING compared to this. https://www.twitch.t...1696865?t=3m55s

[Scout Derek]

feeWAIVER, on 20 April 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks there is any justification for an automated nuke on a 2 minute timer is a baddie that wants the game to be played for them. I don't like to throw around the term "cancer to the game", but in this discussion, I think it applies.

Why? Because people can't put in extra time and work to get that bonus in the long run?

Is Polar Highlands Cancer too? Is it? Because it's something new players have to learn?

I'm just asking, not angry or anything, rather curious as to why, because if people can't figure out how to spread out to devalue the use of Long Tom, then they need to learn by reading the notes. I mean the enemy team even gets the timer when the Long Tom is coming.

[Hydrocarbon]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

I honestly think it needs to be this powerful to dissuade a large unit *cough* from dropping multipule 12-man groups onto planets. Forces them to work in 4-man groups to support one 12-man group.

Orly?

Here's the problem MS is facing this attack phase. Our only attack lane is 100%. The only defense we can get w/o ghost dropping has enemy Long Toms active. Go scout you say?

Scouting has seen between 2-8 clanners playing and 12-28 IS players waiting. Note the words used, playing & waiting.

One MS group in the Scouting queue waited 20 minutes JUST to get a match, not inc count down & game time. All for 10 points, LongTom still active. It's been 30 mins since that match and it JUST moved 8 more to 18-582. In that time about 20 players went to do something else, including myself.


Phase 3 = lottery. If you get horrible pugs or an inflated population, you're better off playing a different game.

[Carl Vickers]

Teams are adjusting Derek, NS comes to mind at the forefront.

The main issue is the map design. The map design favors death balling in certain locations and if you dont you get killed one by one. This wouldnt be an issue with more maps with less or no choke points. Every CW map has choke points, it promotes a certain style of play and this is what needs to change before bringing out something like Mr MVP Long Tom.

[Scout Derek]

Wing 0, on 20 April 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Whats shown here is NOTHING compared to this. https://www.twitch.t...1696865?t=3m55s

Ouch. that's going to hurt.

Carl Vickers, on 20 April 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

Teams are adjusting Derek, NS comes to mind at the forefront.

The main issue is the map design. The map design favors death balling in certain locations and if you dont you get killed one by one. This wouldnt be an issue with more maps with less or no choke points. Every CW map has choke points, it promotes a certain style of play and this is what needs to change before bringing out something like Mr MVP Long Tom.

Hmm, fair enough.


Then there should be adjustments coming to mind then. as MC has mentioned in another thread, asking opinions on how to fix it.

One thing that struck me as, "Why?" was the fact that Long Tom headshotted destroyed the mechs head armor/strucutre majority of the time. I would think, and others, that it's just a more powerful Arty that just wrecks havoc on your mech's armor, not end the mech with a Headshot cockpit kill. If you removed the damage to the head, then all the more better to keep Long Tom as is.

Edited by Scout Derek, 20 April 2016 - 06:25 PM.