15 replies to this topic

[Richard Hazen]

I've played in a lot of the IS heavies and unfortunately some of the mechs that should be tanky are not and some that are tanky really shouldn't. Recently the Black Knight got a nerf because it was to tanky, and most would agree, but then shouldn't mechs that don't have the same offensive abilities receive that tankiness?

What I'm talking about is improving the Orion's ability to take damage, it already has a number of things that goes against it mainly it's shape, but it also feels like the actual armour doesn't compensate for it at all, even with the quirks it feels more like a medium, you certainly can not put an XL engine in it, so it's speed is very average to. The Quickdraw actually feels like it can take more punishment than it right now. I recently got the Warhammer and that feels sturdier, can it really only be the shape of it? is it the hit boxes that are the Orions problem?

When you look on Sarna the opening quote for the Orion says "A poor man's Atlas" the Orion really doesn't feel anything like an Atlas, it doesn't inspire the feel of an Atlas or take the considerable damage of damage an Atlas can take, other heavy mechs feel considerably more like an Atlas than the Orion does.

So it comes down to two questions I want to ask, What is the likelihood than the Orion will receive some form of tweaking? If so what sort of tweaking do you think would improve it so that it can fullfil it's status?

[Alan Davion]

Part of the problem I feel, and I believe many others feel the same way, is the FPS shooting mechanics of the game.

In the tabletop game, there's an element of randomness to your hits, so that lends some of the heavier mechs to being veritable brick walls able to sustain absurd amounts of damage. The Orion is one such mech, leading to the poor mans Atlas moniker.

Where as here in MWO, you can focus all your firepower into one of a half-dozen different pixels, or even more accurately depending on your computer/monitor/tv setup. The better your setup, the more accurate you can be.

This completely removes the randomness of the TT game and gives you absolute control over how fast you can melt a mech.

The Orion's broad profile therefore works against it something fierce as it can be hit from damn near any angle.

Some people have advocated strongly for a cone of fire mechanism to be added to bring back /some/ of the randomness of the TT rules, but they unfortunately end up being shouted down by the ultra-comp-tier-meta-humpers who demand absolute precision.

Until PGI does something to drastically increase time-to-kill, such as a cone of fire system, slashing the heat cap, increasing cool downs or something, absolute precision will remain the dominant mindset here in MWO, and therefore mechs that should be great at tanking will continue to languish in the mech bay, unused because of their large profiles and hit boxes.

[TLBFestus]

I too would like to see mechs with higher survivability and a longer TTK. The OP pointed out a couple of options, all of which would change the game and make it less CoD and more mechwarrior.

I can see that the competitive crown might object to a "cone of fire" as taking skill away from the game, at least aiming skill anyhow, but it could be made up for in other skill sets such as rolling damage over to different components, positioning, and tactics.

The other solutions, like lower heat cap, longer cooldown, etc,....I can't see why they would object. They still have their pinpoint accuracy, it would just lower DPS and extend the match and bring other skills (damage rollover ,etc..) into the equation.

I'd love to see most mechs lasting about 2x as long as they do now. Wouldn't it be great to see an Atlas soaking up damage as 3 opponents had to pound it it to take it down while it continued to advance, opening up opportunities for it's lance mates to close with the enemy?

[Richard Hazen]

Imo they should give the Orion more armour and redesign the hitboxes to spread the damage out more. I have like 6 armour on my back and all to the front and yet I still go red in the CT so easily even with torso twisting.

[Barantor]

Be nice if the Orion got all that bonus the black knight just lost lol.

[Alan Davion]

Barantor, on 20 April 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

Be nice if the Orion got all that bonus the black knight just lost lol.

All the bonuses in the world wouldn't matter with the ON1's still extremely broad front profile.

[wanderer]

Orions suffer from Hunchback syndrome- having an immense ST that draws fire like a magnet. The IIC version has the same issue only even worse.

[Chuck Jager]

I may have an old ugly slow truck that I still love to drive, but I would only be lying to myself if I did not realize it was ugly and slow. I have to keep this in the front of my mind when choosing the mechs I play. Of course there are times when I take the dogs out into muddy fields or need to make a dump run that same old truck becomes uber META.

[Barantor]

Alan Davion, on 20 April 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

All the bonuses in the world wouldn't matter with the ON1's still extremely broad front profile.

It isn't as bad as the awesome, it just doesn't have a lot of arm to cover the sides up when it twists.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

wanderer, on 20 April 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Orions suffer from Hunchback syndrome- having an immense ST that draws fire like a magnet. The IIC version has the same issue only even worse.

I'd say it has dragon syndrome... easy to target ST mean you have trouble with XL engines and a massive front CT box means you get cored easily by anyone who isn't completely incompetant.

[LT. HARDCASE]

wanderer, on 20 April 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Orions suffer from Hunchback syndrome- having an immense ST that draws fire like a magnet. The IIC version has the same issue only even worse.

I wouldn't say "even worse", seeing how the IIC at least loses the huge missile shoulder when there are no missiles installed.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 20 April 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

Orion is a bit squishy, more the issue for me is speed. Its unforgiving if you make a mistake.

[Khobai]

This all comes back to... CXL and ISXL should both be able to survive side torso destruction

Its the only way ISXL is ever going to work on mechs like the Orion.

And it allows for the removal of all the completely unnecessary IS structure quirks that were added...

[Lightfoot]

Well, PGI has turned MechWarrior into Laser domination by nerfing Gauss, PPCs, and LRMs too much in order to alleviate the problem of mechs that are too fragile to withstand full Battle Tech combat. That's why the Orion has problems, because it is not a laser-boat.

Laser-Vomit is apparently desired and not going away, unfortunately. So you play the Orion at range with an XL. A mix of PPC, ERPPC, and LRMs or 4x ER Large on the K, but with an XL.

[Alan Davion]

Khobai, on 20 April 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

This all comes back to... CXL and ISXL should both be able to survive side torso destruction

Its the only way ISXL is ever going to work on mechs like the Orion.

And it allows for the removal of all the completely unnecessary IS structure quirks that were added...

Yeah, and guess what, you make the IS XL engine survive a side torso loss, and then the Clans will want something to compensate them for making the IS XL the equal of their top-tier XL engine.

The solution has been talked about on this forum recently, Light Fusion Engines for the IS.

[Homeskilit]

Alan Davion, on 20 April 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

Yeah, and guess what, you make the IS XL engine survive a side torso loss, and then the Clans will want something to compensate them for making the IS XL the equal of their top-tier XL engine.

You take away structure quirks.

Then give them to the mechs that still need them.