36 replies to this topic

[AnimeFreak40K]

Aresye, on 21 April 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

but...but I thought casual solos made up over 90% of the FW population?!

Except that Solos *are* playing a lot of Scout Missions. I'm a Freelancer for the time being (considering making a unit and going merc for a bit), and since Tuesday, I've only had one actual Invasion drop. Everything else has been Scouting.

...and I have a feeling that the exact same thing is true for Loyalists as well.

[2fast2stompy]

I don't know about the other clans, but the Jaguar/Draconis border is just constant scouting missions, with the scale holding at 50% and 0% for invasion, so I'm presuming units aren't invading either.

Also, the top five non-unit loyalists have 147/85/102/74/52 games played, while unit loyalists have 40/81/73/39/40, so saying solos don't play because they're playing the new mode instead of the old is kinda ********.

But yeah, I'm not against merging the queues.

[sycocys]

Kael 17, on 21 April 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

but of the 50 and 55 ton mechs the IS has available, the only one without at least one variant capable of running a Stormcrow into the ground is the Hunchback.

The Hunchback has 2 models that can thrash Stormcrows - the 4P and the 4SP, possibly even 3 if you have some wizards piloting a group of 4J's.

[Tier 1 Smurf]

1: needs more incentive
2: You mean the MC gets spread too thin and they have recruit costs with spam sized units? Hopefully this creates more smaller units and makes CW more competitive.
3: 4 queues. Well 2 queues, one empty one and one with 1/10th the pop as the unit equivelent.
4: PGI style through and through.
5: See above.

[Cy Mitchell]

Aresye, on 21 April 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

I was under the assumption these were permanent leaderboards. If they're being reset every season, I have no problems with their current implementation.



but...but I thought casual solos made up over 90% of the FW population?!

Really? I never heard anything like that. I heard that 90% of the player base was casual and did not play FW at all. That was said at two consecutive Town Halls.

[Ghogiel]

Rampage, on 21 April 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Really? I never heard anything like that. I heard that 90% of the player base was casual and did not play FW at all. That was said at two consecutive Town Halls.

Yeah even if true I imagine that meant 90% of players queued solo. Irrespective of tags. Which is not the same thing as what solo and solo queue means now.

[Juscar]

My problem with phase 3 is still seems the same but worse. i was hoping in phase 3 we would finally get away from the chokepoint fest that is invasion mode. the lack of varity in that mode is just unfun still seems the same thing

1. large laser farming
2. mostly decided on the first fights which side will likely win the match
3. camp together on the chokepoint.

Im glad with the dropdeck adjustments where now the all timberwolf decks are gone. But still it feels the same gameplay wise large lasers to win.

Scout mode sounds good on paper but in game just feels like medium brawls.

I was hoping for changes more to invasion mode for CW cause its the main mode but now it feels more frustrating then ever to play now with the longer times to match, same old in match tricks, and while the scout mode benefits add more to it they more impact the match in to which side will stomp harder.

Just seems like a lack of close games because ever match is either this side got stomped or that side got stomped.
be nice to play a CW game and feel like "man that was fun! close one we only had 3 guys up and 1 guy was about to win" instead of "scores looking like 12 to 48 again"

[Triordinant]

Aresye, on 21 April 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

but...but I thought casual solos made up over 90% of the FW population?!

They DO -but of all of MWO. They don't play CW. That's why CW flattened out at 10% of the playerbase.

Edited by Triordinant, 21 April 2016 - 07:37 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Triordinant, on 21 April 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

They DO -but of all of MWO. They don't play CW. That's why CW flattened out at 10% of the playerbase.

PGI response- then make CW more like QP!

Why not make it less like QP and more reasons for units to play?

[Davers]

Aresye, on 21 April 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

1. Units have no incentive.
2. Large units get punished.
3. FW population split between 2 queues.
4. Leaderboards are 100% grind. No incentive there either.
5. Poor balance in scout mode (Clan Streaks wrecking IS. IS Oxides wrecking Clans.)

The biggest problem FW has always had is the lack of incentive for large units to actually face each other, and it remains a problem in Phase 3.

1. It's a mode where you earn Cbills, XP, and extra swag. What more do you need?
2. Nothing in FW punishes large units. FW is not recruitment.
3. Since apparently no one is playing solo queue, how is this an issue?
4. No comment on leaderboards.
5. Hold on, are you saying this game has balance issues? LOL At least is isn't another heavy mech argument this time.

Large units will never fight each other unless forced. This is to be expected. Only when the large units have claimed every piece of real estate in the IS and have nothing left to do but attack each other will we see them go head to head.

[White Bear 84]

Aresye, on 21 April 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Most players in regularly sized units of 40-80 players will be lucky to even get 10 MC a month.

Most units up to 40 players are lucky to even get a planet so what is worth fighting for when you have to commit 40+ minutes to just one game that will not necessarily go well, when instead you can do 4/5 drops in std.

They need to shake up the invasion mode.. ..we don't just need take the gun, we need on the ground fights - maybe domination style match ups.

If you have multiple game modes to contribute this could work. Like say

- Scouting: As is, creates bonuses for attackers/defenders
- Domination: Capture 1/5th of a wedge per domination match up - standard drop of 1 mech.
- Defend/Assaut: Current CW, capture double wedge if unit match up, single wedge if unit v pug or pug v pug

CW shouldn't be an extra, it needs to incorporate the core gameplay and its players imo..

The slog for planets as is, especially for smaller units is pretty much a joke so it's no wonder players stick with scouting and or group/pug drops.

[sycocys]

I never really understood how they figured 1 mode for CW was going to be able to sustain it. Even the alternate to the 1 mode plays almost exactly like the other, just with less doors and turrets.

Adding in random quick play map drops with assymetrical objectives, actually using the other half of the CW maps and such things would have added a lot of replay value.

It also really sucks that there's no dedicated way for teams to fight other teams, most because of the focus on the planetary lanes. This alone with some amount of reward for added challenge could have really changed the entire mode for all the players and reduced the pug farming to a minimum.

[Triordinant]

MischiefSC, on 21 April 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

PGI response- then make CW more like QP!
Why not make it less like QP and more reasons for units to play?

Here's the scoop: Phase 3's overarching purpose is to draw more people into CW (FP for you new guys out there) because from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to throw more time, money and effort into something that happens only 10% of the time on PGI's servers. On the other hand, they've already tossed in a ton of time, money and effort into it so it makes sense to try one last time to make CW viable. The "CW Solo Queue" was their last desperate attempt to achieve this and judging from Russ' tweet the casuals and soloists aren't flocking to it.

Two years ago, while CW was still in the planning stage, I posted extensively about why the solo queue that was so successful in the public queues simply won't work in CW. The public solo queue's purpose is to greatly minimize PUG farming by organized competitive premade teams and for the most part it works. It works because it's hard to reliably sync-drop into it because premade team members can end up on both sides of the fight. This is obviously not so in CW because your premade team members can NEVER be on both sides of the match in CW.

If they merge the CW queues like Russ said, CW will revert to what it was before but with the addition of 4-man scouting matches to call in the Long Toms. Eventually, the same 10% who liked it before will still like it and it simply carries on. I'm actually in favor of making CW exclusively for Units (including Units of 1) and letting it be a separate "cage" where Units can have "cage matches" against each other and away from the casuals and soloists in the QuickPlay queues. The problem is I don't think PGI sees that as viable in the long term from a business standpoint.

Edited by Triordinant, 21 April 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[Starbomber109]

Is it not working? It's kinda fun, invasion is worthwhile in C-Bills anyways. Scout mode is getting better but it's really hard to "balance" 4vs4 when the main game modes are 12v12. The big problem I have with 4v4 is more my own personal skills as I always seem to take a ton of damage really fast (usually to my right or left torso). It's far different from the normal quick play matches which are mid-range poke fests. It's all rush/kite/rush which is refreshing. I wish people would stop bringing locusts though (Also, the timing for the current champion mechs could not be worse. A lolcust and a commando, a VINDICATOR and the LRM treb. On the clan side it's slightly better, but not by much. It's enough though that new players or players without medium mechs should stay away from scout mode.)

[Kyrie]

I can't get over the fact that the MC award concept seems to be a clone of Wargaming's Clan Wars map system. And unlike the World of Tanks system, there isn't even a semblance of strategy to any of it -- at least in Clan Wars you had some important decisions to make on the map as a Unit Leader in terms of organizing your tickets on the map.

Bribing people with MC is the wrong approach IMHO to get people into Faction Play (when did CW get dropped? ;-) ).

Immersion needs to exist not only in the actual matches, but in everything leading up to the matches, and we desperately need something more, we need some of what we had back in 1992.

[kapusta11]

It's not only 2 queues, there's also 10 planets/factions and 2 game modes, one of which requires 24 players and locks them in game for half an hour.

How to fix it?
- Fight over 2-3 small sectors/regions instead of 10 planets.
- IS vs Clans. IS/Clan factions can attack and defend together.
- (optional) 8vs8 games.
- (optional) 2-3 mechs in a drop deck.
- Something has to be done to incentivise defence, right now if you want to keep a planet you're better off not defending it at all, let attackers be bored to death with ghost drops, especially if attackers have something like 2 companies. "Big units avoid each other" my ***.
- Rewards. All of the above should make c-bills income more stable and worth the time compared to QP. Add special currency with which you can buy colors, camos, cockpit items, maybe mech-bays but not mechs. At least it would be easier for PGI to give it away.
- Rewards should be based on unit's participation in battle over the sector/region. Remember Tukayyid event? Remember unit stats? Unit's win/loss ratio should determine special currency rewards.
- Nuke solo queue, it's online team based game, you have to socialize at least at a basic level, there is nothing elitist about it. You know why PGI renamed whole thing to Faction Warfare? Here's a hint: "Solo Community Warfare queue", sounds pretty odd isn't it?

Edited by kapusta11, 22 April 2016 - 01:21 AM.

[JustEvil]

Sigh... No, the simple reason that the whole thing isn't working at all is that design is flawed. We should fight over territory control on one map, a big one. Instead we are playing a game of flipping colors of squares.