23 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

There was some discussion on faction warfare and how loyalist votes affect who is being attacked.

The biggest abuse of this system is as simple as making an alt account - to be a faction loyalist. 10 matches before dropping into FW as a loyalist is not really a hindrance, though it's just a formality that has next to no value... and frankly that's not really a deterrent.

An idea was brought to me (for the artist formerly named Asian Tupac) was that the vote needs to be weighed - for the loyalists having a higher rank.

The guy that gets Rank 20 in Kurita should have more sway than the Rank 1 guy that just joined the faction.

Think about it for a moment - the guy who spends his time as a loyalist AND plays FW should gain more control of the vote...

There are potentially flaws, but considering the time it takes to get up to high ranks beyond 10 (for most factions, rank 6 is more than enough for units that previously were running "mechbay tours").

Feel free to poke holes in the idea, but I think this should be a consideration if you're ultimately concerned about "loyalist" alt accounts dictating where to attack, this needs to be strongly considered.

[slide]

Not hard to do either.

Rank 20 - 20 votes
Rank 10 - 10 votes
Rank 1 - 1 vote

The more loyal you have been the more influence you wield. Want to have the same influence as a rank 20 loyalist, then go ahead and make 20 smurf accounts and log into each one in succession. I can't imagine to many people having that much commitment to being a douche.

[sycocys]

slide, on 20 April 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

I can't imagine to many people having that much commitment to being a douche.

It'd really only be 3-5 log-ins, as it takes give or take 3-4 full LP matches to rank up to level 3 or 4 for people with mediocre amounts of skill at the game.

Doing that and maybe dropping in a match for slow additional leveling is something I could see quite a number of people doing if they actually cared who they were fighting.

That and I know at least a dozen people that have 2 accounts that are rank 20, so it wouldn't be much of an issue to grind alts up to 10+ and have substantially more weight on the votes than anyone else.

[Deathlike]

sycocys, on 20 April 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

It'd really only be 3-5 log-ins, as it takes give or take 3-4 full LP matches to rank up to level 3 or 4 for people with mediocre amounts of skill at the game.

Doing that and maybe dropping in a match for slow additional leveling is something I could see quite a number of people doing if they actually cared who they were fighting.

That and I know at least a dozen people that have 2 accounts that are rank 20, so it wouldn't be much of an issue to grind alts up to 10+ and have substantially more weight on the votes than anyone else.

You can adjust the weightings by the rank, as getting to rank 20 is no easy feat, but getting to rank 10 is easy enough.

Numbers can certainly be adjusted.

Not too many people have that kind of patience to get to rank 20.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 April 2016 - 07:55 PM.

[sycocys]

You can only adjust them so far before everyone under rank 20 is meaningless though. And for the guys with rank 20 its not really an issue to just level alts within their own unit, takes time but they already have one max and just add to that with every level on any alts they decide to do.

Just pointing out how people will end up playing the system out. Its a good core concept, it just needs a lot of refinement.

[Deathlike]

sycocys, on 20 April 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

You can only adjust them so far before everyone under rank 20 is meaningless though. And for the guys with rank 20 its not really an issue to just level alts within their own unit, takes time but they already have one max and just add to that with every level on any alts they decide to do.

Just pointing out how people will end up playing the system out. Its a good core concept, it just needs a lot of refinement.

Well, the only other thing that should prevent you from voting is if you haven't played CW after you voted.

For instance, you should need to play like 2 Invasion matches or 4 Scout matches (or some combination thereof - spending approximately 1 hour at most) to get the opportunity to vote the next cycle.

Unless a person has no life and wants to control all factions, this would end up being a tedious process to rig it all.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 April 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[sycocys]

Most people that would do it would use it to exert control over 1 faction, simply to invalidate the value of all the lower level players.

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 20 April 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

There was some discussion on faction warfare and how loyalist votes affect who is being attacked.

The biggest abuse of this system is as simple as making an alt account - to be a faction loyalist. 10 matches before dropping into FW as a loyalist is not really a hindrance, though it's just a formality that has next to no value... and frankly that's not really a deterrent.

An idea was brought to me (for the artist formerly named Asian Tupac) was that the vote needs to be weighed - for the loyalists having a higher rank.

The guy that gets Rank 20 in Kurita should have more sway than the Rank 1 guy that just joined the faction.

Think about it for a moment - the guy who spends his time as a loyalist AND plays FW should gain more control of the vote...

There are potentially flaws, but considering the time it takes to get up to high ranks beyond 10 (for most factions, rank 6 is more than enough for units that previously were running "mechbay tours").

Feel free to poke holes in the idea, but I think this should be a consideration if you're ultimately concerned about "loyalist" alt accounts dictating where to attack, this needs to be strongly considered.

One vote per rank isn't a bad idea. It deals with the alts concern without involving a crap to of alts - which could be sent and reported.

[slide]

sycocys, on 20 April 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

It'd really only be 3-5 log-ins, as it takes give or take 3-4 full LP matches to rank up to level 3 or 4 for people with mediocre amounts of skill at the game. Doing that and maybe dropping in a match for slow additional leveling is something I could see quite a number of people doing if they actually cared who they were fighting. That and I know at least a dozen people that have 2 accounts that are rank 20, so it wouldn't be much of an issue to grind alts up to 10+ and have substantially more weight on the votes than anyone else.

I meant who would have the time to physically log in an out of 20 different accounts. That would take 3-5 minutes for each account to type in an email and password, wait for the game to load, vote and log out.

However I do see your point on having a few higher weight accounts. The idea of weighting rank is still valid though, just have to make each rank progressively more valuable in much the same way as it requires more and more LP to get to the next rank. At some point it must become pointless to either spam accounts or grind higher value ones, at that point the problem becomes less of an issue.

I think anyone who has had the fortitude to grind out rank 20 once let alone even more should have more influence than Johnny come lately (spam) account. As they have probably done more to keep the game mode alive than 90% of the rest of the population. Also if LP is no longer worth anything (beyond rank 20) to a loyalist then having some voting influence might be the only perk to staying with a faction or even playing.

The other option is to simply limit it to only those over say Rank 15, hard enough for all but the most serious of loyalists, but it might actually concentrate the power into to small of a player base, thus defeating it's purpose.

[kapusta11]

You really expect PGI to do something about it? Now that they released a whole new set of exploitable content instead of fixing the old one?

I don't want to sound salty but we should base our opinions on facts.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

This is a fantastic idea and I totally approve of it.

[Duncan1dah0]

Bumping this idea. Rank should have privileges. Lord knows some of the rewards mean little.

[pwnface]

sycocys, on 20 April 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

You can only adjust them so far before everyone under rank 20 is meaningless though. And for the guys with rank 20 its not really an issue to just level alts within their own unit, takes time but they already have one max and just add to that with every level on any alts they decide to do.

Just pointing out how people will end up playing the system out. Its a good core concept, it just needs a lot of refinement.

I don't think people will grind alts just to have more vote influence. There is significant time investment to level up faction loyalty. Let's be honest, a big loyalist unit that all votes the same way is going to have more influence than a smaller unit with handful of guys trying to grind alt accounts to get more voting power.

[MischiefSC]

pwnface, on 21 April 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I don't think people will grind alts just to have more vote influence. There is significant time investment to level up faction loyalty. Let's be honest, a big loyalist unit that all votes the same way is going to have more influence than a smaller unit with handful of guys trying to grind alt accounts to get more voting power.

I put an alt in the Davion Solo queue just to check populations and it took about 2 hours to get my 10 matches. Little under.

If I had to get ranked up in LP? Oh hell no. Have to find matches and in solo queue you can't as easily do that.

No, a moderate LP rank requirement would nix the potential for abuse just fine.

[Adamski]

Maybe add a second layer:
Each Faction match you play since the last vote was held, increases the weight of you vote, as well as your current rank.

ie:
Rank 10, played 10 battles: Vote weight 100
Rank 20, played 5 battles: Vote weight 100
Rank 1, played 10 battles: Vote weight 10

The longer you are loyal to a faction, and the more you fight for that faction, the more your vote is worth.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

slide, on 20 April 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Not hard to do either.

Rank 20 - 20 votes
Rank 10 - 10 votes
Rank 1 - 1 vote

The more loyal you have been the more influence you wield. Want to have the same influence as a rank 20 loyalist, then go ahead and make 20 smurf accounts and log into each one in succession. I can't imagine to many people having that much commitment to being a douche.

Bumping because this is good! Gonna keep bumping too. Folks, if you use twitter (I don't) please blow Russ up with this. Really good idea guys!

[Crockdaddy]

Whatever finally moves Kurita away from the desert factions known as Clan Davion and Clan Smoke Jaguar.

[EGG]

MPBT (which I never played) just assigned House leaders like Qin for Davion. At times it seems like the simplest solution.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 21 April 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

Whatever finally moves Kurita away from the desert factions known as Clan Davion and Clan Smoke Jaguar.

Actually we've got too many drops to handle. We're getting ghosted out on 2 fronts over 2 CF. If you're bored come to Davion - we've got more action than we can handle. We just don't have any love left for Kurita.

[Jarl Dane]

I am in agreement with idea.
I was around some larger, unnamed units, as they discussed the possibility of using alts in order to sway factions votes who they were mercs with...

It does make sense that the guy with rank 20 has much more say in the state of affairs of his faction then the guy who is ranked 1.

Lore wise a General as more say then a private, obviously - and mechanic wise it rewards those who actually have been loyal.