23 replies to this topic

[Shaman GW]

I have a suggestion to eliminate Ghost heat and to limit Alpha strikes.
Increase the time that it takes to dissipate the heat. example (i know it is not accurate just an example) Say it takes 1 heat sink 1 second to dissipate 1 point of heat. Change the time to 1.25 sec to dissipate one point of heat. This will still allow you to do an alpha strike but you wont be able to do it again soon easily, because if you do 20 pts of heat normally it would take 20 sec to dissipate now it will take 25 sec.

In the board game you had 10 minutes between rounds to dissipate the heat. This would make the computer game unbearable. But i feel making it take a little longer to dissipate the heat wont hurt the game overall. Just make you manage your weapon groups more.

Double heatsinks, I think they should dissipate closer to double. I understand and like the fact that they are a little less effective in the engine, but they should be dissipating closer to double like in the board game. Double heat sinks still have their draw backs of the space that they take up. Combined with increasing the time it takes to dissipate the heat it should maintain the game balance.

[VinJade]

ghost hear is mainly there to limit Clanners, if you take the same weapon load out as the Clan counterparts such as ER PPCs, Pls lasers, missiles, ect and alpha you will notice the difference quickly.

so removing the Ghost heat would help the clans and we cannot have that now can we?

[Shaman GW]

That is True but it hurts inner sphere as well. The developers said that they want to get rid of Ghost Heat but do not know what to do about people doing alpha strikes all the time. I think this would be the best of both worlds. When a clan loads up on weapons this would be more of a disadvantage than inner sphere on heat per ton/weapon.

[VinJade]

yeah, it does hurt the IS but anything that helps the Clans Russ won't do it which is one of the things they are trying to get around it seems.

[Shaman GW]

Understood. This should slow down clan proportionately more than inner sphere. Just like Ghost heat hurt clan more than inner sphere because they can pack on more weapons which means more heat build up faster. To compensate for this the clan will have to drop weapons and add heat sinks. Inner sphere will not have to do this nearly as much. Would be great to play test.

[vettie]

seems maybe a simpler solution may be here and easier to implement

currently, if I am remembering correctly, a pilot can only fire 2 gauss rifles at a time and must wait some minimal amount of time to fire them again or more ( as in the case of the 4 gauss Dire - fire 2 wait .5 second and fire the other 2) plus recycle / cool down and recharge time.

Why not the same mechanic for Energy based weapons?
1 - make cool down / recycle longer
2 - pilot can only fire 2 (in any combination) LL, ERLL, LPL, PPC, ERPPC and must wait an additional amount of time to fire another or 2 more.
3 - reduce the number to medium lasers (family ML. MPL) that can fire at the same time from 6 to 4. Then some amount of time plus cooldown /recycle before up to 4 more can be fired
4 - Small laser family number changes to 6 then same as above
5 - SRM or SSRM fire 2 then the same as above
6 - LRM same as SRM / SSRM
7 - Ballistics - AC2s 4. AC5. UAC5 2, AC10, LBX10 1, AC20 1. Clan ballistics follow the same limitations

No need for Ghost heat. Increase the time between groups from .5 to say 1 second (Example)

This reduces the number of Alphas, reduces overall heat created (or extends it before build shuts the mech down), increases time to kill

Just my thoughts

Edited by vettie, 24 April 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[VinJade]

I am not sure why there should be a limit, more so for the MWO GR, they are self charged(when they shouldn't be), if not fired right away they have to be recharged, and they explode.. they are kind of balanced/Heavily nerfed as are(no I don't use them).

I would like to see UACs burn out not jam which would force the player to be careful of over taxing the weapons.

LBXs should have an even larger spread the further out they are from the enemy

as to the Lasers, the ER LG for both sides needs something done to balance them out but only able to fire x number of them at any given time not a good idea.

the spls also need a good tweaking along with the flamers which now are a little too powerful.

[Shaman GW]

vettie, on 24 April 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

seems maybe a simpler solution may be here and easier to implement

currently, if I am remembering correctly, a pilot can only fire 2 gauss rifles at a time and must wait some minimal amount of time to fire them again or more ( as in the case of the 4 gauss Dire - fire 2 wait .5 second and fire the other 2) plus recycle / cool down and recharge time.

Why not the same mechanic for Energy based weapons?
1 - make cool down / recycle longer
2 - pilot can only fire 2 (in any combination) LL, ERLL, LPL, PPC, ERPPC and must wait an additional amount of time to fire another or 2 more.
3 - reduce the number to medium lasers (family ML. MPL) that can fire at the same time from 6 to 4. Then some amount of time plus cooldown /recycle before up to 4 more can be fired
4 - Small laser family number changes to 6 then same as above
5 - SRM or SSRM fire 2 then the same as above
6 - LRM same as SRM / SSRM
7 - Ballistics - AC2s 4. AC5. UAC5 2, AC10, LBX10 1, AC20 1. Clan ballistics follow the same limitations

No need for Ghost heat. Increase the time between groups from .5 to say 1 second (Example)

This reduces the number of Alphas, reduces overall heat created (or extends it before build shuts the mech down), increases time to kill

Just my thoughts

I did think about the lengthening the cycle time and limiting the amount of weapons that could be fired. I think that is to much. That is why i figured to extend the time it takes to dissipate the heat.

[MechWarrior849305]

PFF, ghost heat my 6xPPC stalker, please

Edited by MechWarrior849305, 25 April 2016 - 09:25 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Simple math
Heat dissipation x4
Weapon heat x3

VinJade, on 23 April 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

ghost hear is mainly there to limit Clanners,

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 April 2016 - 01:58 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Simple solution, adopt the zero net heat system used by vehicles, dropships, large craft, warships in battletech. A unit has to have enough heat sinks to cover all their heat generating weapons. That'll quickly solve multi-energy weapon alpha strikes... want to do a 60 point of heat Alpha...great...good luck fitting 60 heat sinks.

[Karl Streiger]

The Mechcomander solution - interesting - are Heatsinks measured as MWo Heatsinks or in tt Terms (15 dhs = 2 ERPPC) what about MMechs like the Hellstar?
What about canon Mechs?
Well your system has merit but is still wanting

[Dee Eight]

TT terms... of course we'd also want TT mech weapon values back... none of the tinkering they keep doing to them changing the heat/damage equations. None of the over-heated energy weapons for no additional damage crap for the small stuff they have now, and the large lasers which just are manipulated to being the better than they ever were in TT. I want 3 heat for 5 damage Martel Medium lasers... and 8 heat for 8 damage large lasers... and 12 heat for 8 damage (or 10 clan) ERLL's, etc. And while at the weapon tables... if you're going to increase the range of most every weapon in the game by at least 50%...then you should also have done that to SRMs and SSRMs.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 April 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well the Large Laser is worser by a margin in comparison to tt.
Don't believe me?
Try it take say a Ontos and a Brutus Heavy Tank - both shoot at a Commando. Look what happens.

Of course you can take a swayback and a hunchback target a withworth or Hermes II - you should get the idea

[GLaDOSauR]

I was wondering the other day about how to reduce alpha strikes, came up with this: 80% - 100%(give or take) heat you take damage like you're over-riding in the current system. Once you get to 100% then you auto shut-down. Oooooooooor you can manual shut-down earlier to prevent the damage. Main problem would be how punishing it would be to new players. But it would probably really discourage massive laser alphas.

[Shaman GW]

Dee Eight, on 26 April 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

TT terms... of course we'd also want TT mech weapon values back... none of the tinkering they keep doing to them changing the heat/damage equations. None of the over-heated energy weapons for no additional damage crap for the small stuff they have now, and the large lasers which just are manipulated to being the better than they ever were in TT. I want 3 heat for 5 damage Martel Medium lasers... and 8 heat for 8 damage large lasers... and 12 heat for 8 damage (or 10 clan) ERLL's, etc. And while at the weapon tables... if you're going to increase the range of most every weapon in the game by at least 50%...then you should also have done that to SRMs and SSRMs.

Can't say I don't disagree. Part of the problem is the TT doesn't convert well into a first person style game. Back to the subject of heat
Each firing round was around 10 minutes for example. So if you have 20 heat sinks and do 20 pts of heat it is gone by the next time you fire. That would make the FPS unbearable. So you have to go with something more like Solaris rules, quadruple the heat and or set fire rates.
In my opinion they need to pick a standard by which to base the heat-sinks. Example a small laser doing say 2 heat should be able to fire every round if it has 2 heat-sinks. Then a medium laser would be less efficient doing 3 heat with 3 heat sinks and firing before the 3 heat is dissipated. This would result in a buildup. I think this would take a lot of rework of the game.
A much simpler solution is to make slightly longer for the heat-sinks to dissipate the heat.
On a side note i would like the AC/20 to do the devastation that it did on the tabletop.

[Karl Streiger]

Shaman GW, on 26 April 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

On a side note i would like the AC/20 to do the devastation that it did on the tabletop.

The whole transformation from tt to fps is bad in this game - the issue I'm not sure its possible without a hell lot of tests using the engine of this game.

Althoug there was a reason we propagade 3025 Tech only at first. To take the example 50t vs 50t this is somehow balanced in tt - example HBK-4G vs HBK-4P - the G can draw blood with the first salvo but its unlikely that the 4P could - but the 4P deal more damage - heat for both is less important

Its 50:50 in Tt but in MWo i would bet on the 4P - althoug 1on1 with conparable Mechs is a conplete different strory as to Balance the game in its current state

The main issue with heat is directly linked with the weapon handling - pinpoint fire without spread can nail most lights at a distance - while their armor may be enough to took the damage of a AC20 its not enough vs deathrays - so a less forgiving heatsystem - will make piloting lights even harder (i don't drive lights Btw)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 April 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Northbear]

Interesting problem we have in this game.
They increase the heat generated and lower the heat reduction to balance the game???
No they need to get rid of the pin point accuracy with multiple weapons.
Take the cone of fire with lb-x, srm, and lrm's. random and spread further at range.
Example srm6 at point blank range is dead accurate with a good gunner, move out to 200-270 m and a good gunner can still hit but the damage is spread to out to many components like in table top.
Now take the hbk-4p at any range, speed, and heat generated all its lasers can and will hit where the gunner has shot.
If they would take the pin point out of it the alpha damage would go down and we as a player base would have longer matches, new players would have more time in the match before they punch out and they could learn faster how to pilot and shoot with there mech.
And they could do proper tweaks to the system Jagger and Riflemen have the best targeting and tracking comp in the inner sphere but right now they are the same as all the others.
clans have there op weapons comp to help with accuracy as well.
just a thought.

[VinJade]

only problem I have with forced Shut down is that in the novels(They are canon btw) the pilot can keep overriding the mech until the mech dies from ammo explosions.

as it is with how even a single flamer can force a shut down of a ballistic only mech that would normally run cool with ease that would only break the game and put it in favor of the one carrying the Flamers.

how long would it take for the mech to start back up if the one with the flamers stays out of the line of fire of the mech they are attacking and just keeps hitting it with the flamer?

The Ability to override was the best thing to happen to MWO as it allows the player to fight to the death of one's mech.

[Elendil]

I like the idea of removing weapon convergence when firing multiple weapons...
The spread would be as wide as whatever your hardpoint placement is when you alpha, but if you fire individually they hit right where you're aiming.