138 replies to this topic

[Afuldan McKronik]

Balance should be achieved at the weaponry level. Obviously hard to do when IS can't get more than tech1 weaponry in the game though. And before I get shouted out for saying all tech2 will completely obsolete tech1, it could be balanced also.

Ultra 2/10/20 - Why aren't they in game? UAC20 alone would make HBK-4G downright scary. Same firing solution as all other IS AC, one shot, one pellet.

LBX 2/5/20 - Why aren't they in game? I know the current implimentation are kinda weak, but they should be there as a choice for IS.

Light AC - Longer range, lighter AC, no brainer power creep? No, because this isn't TT, blah blah fluff blah, Light AC carry less shots per ton of ammo. Allows lights to carry a ballistic at the cost of ammo count, dakka boats could bring them but end up either ammo starved or carrying so much ammo in crit slots that it would explode upon loosing any armor.

Light Gauss - Same as light AC, more range and less tonnage. These could be the gauss rifles that explode when looked at. Make regular gauss have the standard weapon HP, so you can bring a light gauss that will explode, or a regular that might last through component destruction. Plus light gauss do less damage.

Heavy Gauss - shorter range, higher damage. Kind of balanced already, might make for a wonderful mid range or brawler. Very few shots per ton of ammo if its imbalanced.

Silver Bullet Gauss - Multiple gauss rounds? Sign everyone up! Nay, these spread shots like LBX, but higher damage per pellet.

ER lasers - IS versions of Small and Medium. Why haven't they been added. Extra range for extra heat.

XPulse - IS regular range, much higher damage. No point to not bring them? Nay, heat, long burn times and tonnage per laser balances these.

LMG - Lighter ballistics, lower damage.

HMG - Slightly heavier ballistics, lighter than AC2, damage in between MG and AC2.

Machine Gun Arrays - For mechs that are hardpoint starved for ballistics but want lots of MG. 4 MG Clan and IS, same weight, just shoved into one ballistic slot. Limit the amountt that can be placed onto a mech so we dont get Array Boats.

RAC - Rapid fire autocannons. Why bring ultra when you can bring RAC? Have RAC jam chance start higher past one shot, and each shot brings the jam chance higher. Risk vs reward, it COULD out DPS an ultra, but if RNG hates you, it jams after second shot anyways. Balance this like the flamer heat cooldown so people don't macro abuse them.

IS Streak 4/6 - Again, no brainer. Why haven't they been added?

MRM - Fires like SRM, Longer range. Balance with worse spread and don't let them be affected by Artemis. Plus these things are huge and heavy. Picture a Cats ear twice the size for a 40 count MRM-40.

Inferno SRM - What a wonderful weapon to use against heat heavy Clan mechs. Ammo switching is a nono, do the MW4 Mekpak route and add these as seperate launchers. Low damage, but acts like you are getting hit by a Flamer per missile hit for a few seconds. Effective, trolly, and actually a great counter for IS vs hot Clan mechs. Not a perfect solution, as normal SRM can launch these missiles, but a step forward.

Anything else can be brought forward too. I firmly believe that these Advanced Tech weapons should have been introduced either during Clan Invasion or shortly before/after. Chasing the quirk meta, and some mechs simply left behind due to quirks and hardpoint design, sucks as a balancing act.

Edited by Afuldan McKronik, 26 April 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[EvilCatEars]

If IS could get ER medium lasers / ER small lasers it would be great.
It would really help light mechs, with a lot of balistic hardpoints, to have some better options (HMGs / LMGs)
Also there is a need for reasonable, mid range missile system like MRMs.

[El Bandito]

IS SSRM4/6 before anything else.

[Lily from animove]

chassis are the cause of imbalance, their tonnages, their geometry, their hardpoints. And this is where balance needs to happen.

Except light Ac's for lower tonnage mechs I don'T see much of a reason to use most others. They either spread or are heat inefficient or have more RNG. Thats exactly the things good palyers will weed out on their table first when it comes to proper techs to equip.

[Afuldan McKronik]

I forgot IS ER lasers and the LMG/HMG. Probably others I forgot also. Same concepts, though.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I think it’s clear we want more consumables first before we get into all this needless weaponry fluff stuff.

sarcasm is now: [off] / on

Definitely would like ER small and med lasers for IS. And I'm all for more ballistic and missile weapon choices.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 26 April 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[GonaDie]

I would get the rest of ER/Ultra/Streaks first.If we get those right, THEN we can talk about something new.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Just wanted a discussion on this. Better balance could have been achieved from having the advanced tech already in game before Clan mechs.

Maybe instead of offensive quirks on mechs, chassis that had poor hardpoint variety/location/count could have had defensive quirks, with the advanced tech supplying firepower for mechs with better hardpoints. You could choose to take a tankier mech with fewer/poor hardpoint locations to draw fire/push ahead of the more fragile mechs that are better for the hillhump or whatever providing fire support.

I think this would end up being more of an interesting way to do organised balancing, at least. As it is, we chase the meta quirks and hardpoints over thinking of firepower vs toughness.

"Should I take the Black Knight which can survive a ton of incoming fire, or take the better hardpoints of a Jager and seriously wreck things?"

[Hit the Deck]

I'd like us to have MRMs but how to make that weapon system useful? Perhaps by making the missiles fly super fast?

[Alan Davion]

GonaDie, on 26 April 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

I would get the rest of ER/Ultra/Streaks first. If we get those right, THEN we can talk about something new.

That part in bold there... Yeah, that's never going to happen. Weapon balance is completely screwed up right now, i.e PPC speed and heat generation, laser damage vs heat is a mess, Clan lasers just got a big boost thanks to their targeting computers...

All weapons need to be reset back to their tabletop values and then balance needs to be re-iterated from there. Even then nothing will ever be truly 'right' because of how bad the rest of the game is right now.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Added ER, LMG, HMG, MG Arrays, the other LBX sizes, UAC sizes and the larger Streaks. This is a post about IS weaponry, because thats where the imbalance starts. IS vs what the Clans already have in game.

Edited by Afuldan McKronik, 26 April 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Robot Kenshiro]

I feel the esports will make this game either more broken and more leaned towards that road if its successful. Ive said it and many ppl before me. Thia games development has been done back to front. Story. Campaign. Co-op pve. Pvp. Esports. I think that formula is what most games use. We wouldn't be in so much mess otherwise... imho anyways

[GonaDie]

Alan Davion, on 26 April 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

That part in bold there... Yeah, that's never going to happen. Weapon balance is completely screwed up right now, i.e PPC speed and heat generation, laser damage vs heat is a mess, Clan lasers just got a big boost thanks to their targeting computers...

All weapons need to be reset back to their tabletop values and then balance needs to be re-iterated from there. Even then nothing will ever be truly 'right' because of how bad the rest of the game is right now.

I could go as far as saying that we need to scrap EVERYTHING.Quirks, mech hitboxes, hard point counts, skill tree, everything.ATM it feels kinda...random ,if you know what I mean.

Edited by GonaDie, 26 April 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Barantor]

Afuldan McKronik, on 26 April 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Just wanted a discussion on this. Better balance could have been achieved from having the advanced tech already in game before Clan mechs.

Balance could've been achieved easier without advancing the timeline to the clans at all. It is what HBS is doing with their Battletech game.

Clans messed stuff up before and they did it here to the point that the IS are having to become what we have currently which is OP in a lot of cases.

I don't mind the clan being OP, but when they put the same numbers of mechs on the field they created an imbalance that even the tabletop game didn't have.

Advancing the timeline further will only create more things for them to balance and send this ship down with the titanic.

[mark v92]

Hit the Deck, on 26 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

I'd like us to have MRMs but how to make that weapon system useful? Perhaps by making the missiles fly super fast?

Id like it if they did it the same as in MW living legends.

MRM missiles had a big spread but had a fly by wire system. The missiles would try to fly towards your cursor.
You still needed to fire in front of the enemy mech because the missiles had a very limited turn rate so you could adjust them a little bit if you aimed correctly.
Their slow speed and spread made them useless when you were fighting very close but the spread got better over range and the fly by wire was perfect for medium range fighting.

Here we see a Raven with a MRM20 and medium X-pulse in MWLL. Notice the missiles following the cursor:

Edited by mark v92, 26 April 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Robot Kenshiro, on 26 April 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

I feel the esports will make this game either more broken and more leaned towards that road if its successful. Ive said it and many ppl before me. Thia games development has been done back to front. Story. Campaign. Co-op pve. Pvp. Esports. I think that formula is what most games use. We wouldn't be in so much mess otherwise... imho anyways

Of course the E-Sports route is going to F*** the game up even further. E-Sports is all about fast-paced, twitch reflexes like with CS:GO, at least here in the US.

I know over in parts of Asia the only big E-Sport for a long time was StarCraft, and that involved way more strategy than CS:GO or MWO could ever dream of having.

It's sad really.

GonaDie, on 26 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

I could go as far as saying that we need to scrap EVERYTHING.Quirks, mech hitboxes, hard point counts, skill tree, everything.ATM it feels kinda...random ,if you know what I mean.

That's because it pretty much is all F***ing random.

There's no strategy, no planning, just either form a death ball or a firing line and focus fire until the enemy is dead.

I would not be the least bit surprised if people started leaving in droves once HBS' Battletech game gets here.

[Afuldan McKronik]

mark v92, on 26 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Id like it if they did it the same as in MW living legends.

MRM missiles had a big spread but had a fly by wire system. The missiles would try to fly towards your cursor.
You still needed to fire in front of the enemy mech because the missiles had a very limited turn rate so you could adjust them a little bit if you aimed correctly.
Their slow speed and spread made them useless when you were fighting very close but the spread got better over range and the fly by wire was perfect for medium range fighting.

Here we see a Raven with a MRM20 and medium X-pulse in MWLL. Notice the missiles following the cursor:

That was AWESOME to watch. Thanks.

[GLaDOSauR]

All I want is MRMs, and maybe larger streaks. MRMs were my favorite weapon in MWLL. I think that if they were implemented they shouldn't fire just like srms though. They should have longer range, but the same spread as srms. The main difference, is that they would come out one at a time like clan lrms. Reinforcing the whole lore thing of being innaccurate. Idk. I don't think PGI is gonna add any new weapos for awhile anyway. They're to busy trying to fix the mess that is CW phase 3. They don't need anything else to balance right now.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Barantor, on 26 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Balance could've been achieved easier without advancing the timeline to the clans at all. It is what HBS is doing with their Battletech game.

Clans messed stuff up before and they did it here to the point that the IS are having to become what we have currently which is OP in a lot of cases.

I don't mind the clan being OP, but when they put the same numbers of mechs on the field they created an imbalance that even the tabletop game didn't have.

Advancing the timeline further will only create more things for them to balance and send this ship down with the titanic.

Its here so it needs to be balanced for what we have.

[Hit the Deck]

mark v92, on 26 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Id like it if they did it the same as in MW living legends.

MRM missiles had a big spread but had a fly by wire system. The missiles would try to fly towards your cursor.
....

Yeah, people have mentioned MW:LL system before when the subject of MRMs was brought up. Maybe you were one of them.

Anyway, according to the TT ruleset (which we don't necessarily have to follow very closely), MRMs have a +1 to hit penalty. I think the main reasoning behind it is that it's hard to land rockets at such ranges so we don't need to prenerf MRMs because the difficulty to hit is perfectly simulated in an FPS game (MWO).

I think we just need to make the missiles fly faster (maybe around 800m/s - double the speed of SRMs) so they would be somewhat useful at their intended range. The fluff reason is that by removing the guidance system and that a single MRM does half the damage of a single SRM, the designers just made MRMs fly fast(er).

Or, we could do the MW:LL way if it's proven to be more fun.