16 replies to this topic

[LegendaryArticuno]

The quick TLDR on the new 1.4.65 Careers:

Freelancer:

• Don't even bother, the rewards are shite

Mercenary:

• If you enjoy getting stomped by kcom, apply here

Loyalist/Unit:

• if you can't get enough of being stomped by kcom and want to be tied down with opt out penalties, apply here

Loyalist/Solo:

• SOLO QUEUE B*TCHES!!! Just make sure you love your faction no matter what because the desertion penalties are harsh

[Khobai]

pretty much... solo queue is the obvious way to go if you dont want to get rolled by big units.


what really bothers me though is that current units dont have to retroactively pay for invite tickets for their existing members.

but if you create a new unit after this patch you have to pay tens of millions or possibly hundreds of millions of cbills to grow your unit

that seems really unfair

[Chuck Jager]

Khobai, on 18 April 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

pretty much... solo queue is the obvious way to go if you dont want to get rolled by big units.


what really bothers me though is that current units dont have to retroactively pay for invite tickets for their existing members.

but if you create a new unit after this patch you have to pay tens of millions or possibly hundreds of millions of cbills to grow your unit

that seems really unfair

This is what most organizations do. It is called grandfathering.
The US found this out when they grandfathered in specific weapons features right before they banned them during the 80s-90s. It really protected those folks who were collectors and avid shooters, but it gave industry and criminals a new cash cow with a decent inventory (debating ethics and morals of this issue is a separate time and place).

Not all things are fair to all people, especially a compromise. This does make a way for CW to not further devolve into 1-3 units and the rest solo pugs (with the units playing on the same side or farming their alt faction accounts).

[Khobai]

Quote

This is what most organizations do. It is called grandfathering.

I dont care if theres a term for it.

What I care about is that its unfair.

Quote

Not all things are fair to all people, especially a compromise

Except its not a compromise. All it does is punish new units that dont have a lot of money yet. It doesnt punish existing units that already have billions saved up in their coffers that were earned from abusing a broken system for months on end.

thatd be like if the US government started taxing new businesses an absurdly high tax rate but old business didnt have to pay taxes at all. the old businesses are able to thrive while the new businesses struggle to stay afloat.

im sorry but theres no real way you can justify that. its unfair plain and simple.

Quote

This does make a way for CW to not further devolve into 1-3 units and the rest solo pugs

What are you talking about? We still have the 1-3 units with billion of cbills and hundreds of players. Nothing has changed.

All it ensures is that no new units can be created to compete with them because the cbill costs of forming such a unit are excessively prohibitive.

The fair approach wouldve been to either make units retroactively buy tickets for each member or kick everyone out of their units and make them rejoin. Then every unit would have to pay the same amount for tickets.

Edited by Khobai, 18 April 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[Wing 0]

LegendaryArticuno, on 18 April 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

The quick TLDR on the new 1.4.65 Careers:

Freelancer:

• Don't even bother, the rewards are shite

Mercenary:

• If you enjoy getting stomped by kcom, apply here

Loyalist/Unit:

• if you can't get enough of being stomped by kcom and want to be tied down with opt out penalties, apply here

Loyalist/Solo:

• SOLO QUEUE B*TCHES!!! Just make sure you love your faction no matter what because the desertion penalties are harsh

These arnt the KCOM's your talking about.

Edited by Wing 0, 18 April 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

Move Along...

[Chuck Jager]

Khobai, on 18 April 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

I dont care if theres a term for it.

What I care about is that its unfair.



Except its not a compromise. All it does is punish new units that dont have a lot of money yet. It doesnt punish existing units that already have billions saved up in their coffers that were earned from abusing a broken system for months on end.

thatd be like if the US government started taxing new businesses an absurdly high tax rate but old business didnt have to pay taxes at all. the old businesses are able to thrive while the new businesses struggle to stay afloat.

im sorry but theres no real way you can justify that. its unfair plain and simple.



What are you talking about? We still have the 1-3 units with billion of cbills and hundreds of players. Nothing has changed.

All it ensures is that no new units can be created to compete with them because the cbill costs of forming such a unit are excessively prohibitive.

The fair approach wouldve been to either make units retroactively buy tickets for each member or kick everyone out of their units and make them rejoin. Then every unit would have to pay the same amount for tickets.

This is not about what you think about fair or not.
That is your opinion not a fact.

Your opinions are not PGIs main concerns. You are one person with one opinion, what about the big units with many folks who may have a different opinion about fair or not fair. Their vote is the same as yours. This is why grandfathering exists. Folks are usually not retroactively punished based on something that was allowed by "laws/written rules" at the time they did it.

Pgi is balancing what is actively negatively affecting the game with what they told folks is allowed and acceptable in this game. This is a bad place for anybody to be in. The really craptastic way to look at this is that everybody had the same chance to start a unit before X date, and everybody has the same rules after X date. This is the basis for most rule changes in contract law and other organizational structure in the modern world. IE this is the basis for what most people are told their societal structures consider fair.

Fair is just a qualitative statement not a truth, but it is validated by the number of folks in a community that share the same opinion/votes. If certain big units whom I can not name take advantage of this, PGI will have a diplomatically easier time removing the grandfathered status from them and their brethren. Funny thing is their may be some really big units who never even play competitive CW, that will be affected while also hurting the faction strength of non-affiliated members.

Welcome to politics, these are lesson I have had to learn the hard way in case you think I am lecturing you.

Edited by Chuck Jager, 18 April 2016 - 11:02 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

I dont care to much about getting rolled by units FWL can fight back, im more worried about not finding units to fight... Sure for the next few weeks a lot of people will be on playing but as the new car smell fades away i see a lot of ghost drops on the unit side of things.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 April 2016 - 11:26 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Monkey Lover, on 18 April 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

I dont care to much about getting rolled by units FWL can fight back, im more worried about not fighting units to fight... Sure for the next few weeks a lot of people will be on playing but as the new car smell fades away i see a lot of ghost drops on the unit side of things.

Maybe time to make group Q become CW Q with merc exceptions for loyalties to get drops. Certain big groups have created this issue, and trust me it is very easy to switch sides by just doing google searches. The newer folks and lore loyalist are being hurt the most.

[LegendaryArticuno]

After the patch does everyone become factionless regardless of contract?

Also any suggestions for picking my next faction? Thinking of going Marik - loyalist or maybe giving Clans a shot (have 3 Madcats and only need to buy a light).

[Monkey Lover]

LegendaryArticuno, on 19 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

After the patch does everyone become factionless regardless of contract?

Also any suggestions for picking my next faction? Thinking of going Marik - loyalist or maybe giving Clans a shot (have 3 Madcats and only need to buy a light).

Yep everyone is going to be reset. Might be a good idea to go mercs and get the lowest mechbay rewards then join Marik loyalist. (house-marik.com)

[Pronotum]

What bothers me is that freelancing is being discouraged as much as smearing mayonnaise all over your chest in the middle of Times Square.

I wish Freelancing was a viable option for those who do not wish to simply bother tying themselves to a restrictive loyalty thing or dooming themselves to Unit stomps by forming a one-man Merc unit to circumvent the no-goodies issue. So, in order to give Freelancing a *tiny* bit of purpose, I wish they earned the Merc RP, but at only 25-30% of the base rate that the actual Merc Units do get. I don't think alienating the people who wish to simply play CW modes without a burden on themselves should be punished.

[DjPush]

Who's kcom?

[Khobai]

Quote

Their vote is the same as yours

no their vote is not the same as mine, because I didnt abuse CW.

they shouldnt even get a vote after how badly they abused the system

[LegendaryArticuno]

YES FREEEDOOOM!!!

I'm no longer bound to Liao slavery!! Liao will still always be my favourite faction, since they have the best logo among all IS and Clan factions, but it feels good to be free and not have to pay the 1 million+ cbills to opt out.

I'm somewhat lost now. I don't want to jump immediately into another slaver contract, but I might have to do so in order to play solo queue...

[Stahlherz]

See you on Thursday I guess.

[SarntAvery]

Khobai, on 18 April 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

what really bothers me though is that current units dont have to retroactively pay for invite tickets for their existing members.

but if you create a new unit after this patch you have to pay tens of millions or possibly hundreds of millions of cbills to grow your unit

that seems really unfair

That's why, when a unit is so kind as to accept/invite you... Be grateful and pay your unit's coffers the invite fee they were so gracious to spend.


Donate to your unit, or don't.. either way the fee should remain...
If recruitment were free, with the current rewards, unit leaders would just recruit everyone in hopes for bodies on the battlefield and MC in their coffers.
Unit coffers are not hard to fill, especially with unit members who take deep pride in the unit and always contribute voluntarily.

Edited by SarntAvery, 27 April 2016 - 08:28 AM.