43 replies to this topic

[Sonny Black]

paws2sky, on 26 April 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

Honestly, f2p works fine if you have patience. Sometimes, lots of patience.

And it should be added Very Very Good. Spending Some money helps, but I would not spend a lot of money right away, until a player 1. decides the game is fun 2. what kind of play style you like. You also don't need to spend A Lot of money in order to enjoy the game...Joining a * Unit really helps.

* Gosh am I ever subtle!

[knight-of-ni]

Definitely not pay to win.

Feel free to determine your own opinion, but what I would recommend is you wait long enough to experience a few of PGI's weekend challenges and the sales that go along with it.

I've seen some threads try to make the claim this game is pay-to-win with the opening argument "I've been playing this game for a couple weeks and....". A couple weeks is simply not long enough to get a feel for PGI's marketing strategy. Virtually everything goes on sale or is given away at some time or another. The only thing required to take advantage of that is patience.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar

Edited by knnniggett, 27 April 2016 - 05:49 AM.

[StumbleBee]

More to the point, it's not pay to FUN.

[JC Daxion]

Not P2W,


Hero mechs are not either, even the best heros have C-bill mechs that can out perform them. the only thing some heroes have, is a unique loadout. So if unique is P2W, then i don't know what to say about that..


It's pay to decrease grind.... Nothing more, nothing less, and even the grind is not bad, if you are just having fun anyway.

Sonny Black, on 27 April 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

And it should be added Very Very Good. Spending Some money helps, but I would not spend a lot of money right away, until a player 1. decides the game is fun 2. what kind of play style you like. You also don't need to spend A Lot of money in order to enjoy the game...Joining a * Unit really helps.

* Gosh am I ever subtle!

as a brand new player, i would say, if you fill your 4 mech bays, then at least spend 7 or 15 bucks, and buy mech bays as needed.. that is a meal at a fast food place for the 7 dollar one, and a pizza can cost more than the 15 depending where you live.

It is the one thing you can do to really improve your play experience.. I also like buying the 250MC premium day passes on days i have 12+ hours i can just grind away. You can make enough with that bonus to pick up an assault.. that said, a day of work, could buy you an entire 12 mech package.. but you had to work, and not play

Edited by JC Daxion, 27 April 2016 - 05:27 AM.

[Morggo]

Koniving, on 26 April 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

Oxide was a piece of garbage and still is.

Heh, heh..
Ya cut me bro, ya cut me deep

No, wait... you're NOT yelling about how OP my Oxide is? Carry on, carry on...

But seriously, tangent item - do I do really well in my Oxide? Sometimes. Do I get splatted? Yep. She dies just like any other mech. Have I seen good pilots out perform and Oxide in a Commando? Yep (one guy is in my lance, crazy good with even a trial commando). Oxide has some quirks that give her a boost, but so do A LOT of other mechs. Oxide is just a favorite to hammer on since, IMHO, people hate to die to a light more than a "more respectable death by heavy or assault." *shrugs*

Once they eventually nerf my Oxide, I fully expect I'll still wreck face with her. It's not always about the quirks, but more about the pilot, again that's just my opinion. (take the Huggin. People claim it's unplayable after it's infamous nerfing. I played with someone just last night killing left and right in one just fine...)

Edited by Morggo, 27 April 2016 - 05:29 AM.

[Jaguaar]

Platros, First off, WELCOME WELCOME!!!!!

I am fairly new myself and this game is definitely NOT pay to win.. far from it. This game is more about team play, skill, and positioning more than anything else. Lonewolfs out there get wrecked most of the time whether they have a Mastered mech with quirks or not. (I made the mistake of going off on my own in some matches when I started that ended really badly....lol) That is what I love about this game. PGI, IMO, has done a pretty damn good job evening the playing field. For example, lets say I have enough liquid cash to buy very single mech MWO has to offer when I create my account. Lets also say they all come mastered as well. You would think this would put you at an advantage, right? Well, not really. If I am new and I jump into games with seasoned players, most of the time I will lose. Again, this game is more about positioning, teamwork, and skill... which any new player just does not have from the start. Can a new player take out people during matches, well of course they can, but new players will make mistakes more often than a seasoned player getting them into trouble in a match. THAT is what is cool about MWO. I can have all the same equipment as a seasoned player right off the bat without having to wait months or years for a CHANCE to get exceptional equipment like many of the MMORPG's out there.
Of course the example above would hep the new player learn a bit faster because they are using better equipment but again it doesn't halt the "human" element. Also, the example above is just that.. a hypothetical example.
There is a ton of great advice here from vets. Make sure to look through all the Q&A's (besides the guides) in this forum before you purchase anything. Run all the trial mechs for a while so you get a feel for the type of play and mechs you feel most comfortable in. Give yourself some time to learn all you can before jumping into purchasing your first mech AND use c-bills to start with instead of real money. My first 2 mech purchases were the Hunchback and Mad Cat because of my play style. Those are the best, first purchases I could have made. Those 2 mechs, for me, were pretty versatile and the Mad Cat with Omnipods allowed me to change the variant anytime.
Lastly, once you get to the point where you are ready to buy mech packages, most if not all of them come with premium time. Premium time is good to have for the c-bill boost. That will allow you to gain more c-bills at a faster rate.

Above all else, you have to play the game to succeed...they don't give you anything for free and there aren't shortcuts to getting better...your going to lose and die A LOT (dont get discouraged)...you will get out of MWO as much as you put in and don't forget this is a game meant to be fun.

[Koniving]

Morggo, on 27 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Once they eventually nerf my Oxide, I fully expect I'll still wreck face with her. It's not always about the quirks, but more about the pilot, again that's just my opinion. (take the Huggin. People claim it's unplayable after it's infamous nerfing. I played with someone just last night killing left and right in one just fine...)

I think they'll actually (possibly) cut the structure quirks to about 75% or 50% of what they are, then put it on all Jenners. Maybe a slight edge to the Oxide 'cause... "Oxides can't jump."
Rofl.

Truth be told Huginn should have got the same structure/armor quirks as the 2X.
This is because the 2X and Huginn have exactly the same tonnage in armor at stock. The 4X got greater structure armor quirks because it is literally defined in Battletech as a Brawling light with near max starting armor, while the 2X is a mixture of Scout and Combat somewhere in medium-high armor, and the Raven 3L has no armor/structure quirks because it's paper-thin armored at stock.

This is the way it should be done.

Problem is -- Jenners got hardpoints in a wonky way, the best Jenner is the 7-D. Best of everything that PGI gave it. It wouldn't be so great if you couldn't do max armor. Then all Jenners have some of the highest engines you can possibly get for a Light which is why most of them got screwed on any armor/structure quirks. (Most shouldn't have anything that rivals the Raven 3L anyway.)
The 7-K should have got the better hardpoints and the 7-F should have gotten Oxide's structure quirks. This is because like the Raven 4X, the Jenner JR7-F is a brawling light with exactly the same stock armor. As such it should be on par in tankiness with the Raven 4X.
The Oxide's armor is identical to a Jenner JR7-D. As such, if an Oxide gets the buff the Jenner JR7-D should. And the Jenner JR7-K... has the worst armor of all stock and nothing to make up for it in hardpoints. So what would we do then (except give it the same quirks)?

Solarise03, on 27 April 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

nah, its free, u just need good PC to get high fps, its all about positioning

If you're heavy/assault.
Good timing if you're medium (or staying near heavies/assaults that have good positioning, or keeping up with lights).
And if you're a light, it's about not getting seen when you harass the enemy (and getting out quick when you are).

[Koniving]

White Bear 84, on 26 April 2016 - 10:09 PM, said:

Lol Koniving your description of the hero mechs is such a sales pitch! But pay to lose? Really? Oxides are dominating the FP scouting for IS as far as lights go, the Huggin is still viable there too. YLW has *always* been a stable hero mech, although not so much in the competitive scene (due to weapon location). The St Ive's is ironically really the best vindicator out there thanks to quirks, then there is the Bounty Hunter (Marauder) and Black Widow (Warhammer) which are both fantastic mechs to pilot..

..not saying they are all great (i mean we have the pretty babies, dragon slayers and x5's..) but they are definitely not pay 2 lose.

Stick with pay to get rich faster..

They weren't all that good when I got 'em, and short of a being an AC/20-totting shoulder parrot, Huginn still isn't that good (and I hate to say it because I freaking love the chassis and the hardpoints).

Oxide, yes with 100% stock armor I managed to survive lots of abuse when it first came out (long before quirks) but that was skill, positioning, patience, and running off of bridges onto people to lay into them. But the way MWO spends ammo left it pretty wanting. (In Megamek this leaves you with so much ammo it's more likely to explode on you and I've yet to be able to consume it all and yield so many more component destructions and kills).

YLW is pretty decent, but much more love for the CN9-AH which the YLW replaced for so long.
Still -- incredible Gauss Shots. (Wait for it; worth it. That poor Jenner!)

Most of these mechs are getting good due to quirks, before quirks they weren't good on their own even against enemies without quirks. Now of course they need quirks to compete with those that have quirks, who then need quirks to compete with the heroes with quirks that needed them to compete with the regular mechs with quirks, which the heroes now need bigger quirks to compete with the regular mechs with buffed quirks that needed them to compete with the hero mechs that just got quirks which got them to have a chance against the already overquirked regular mechs...and the cycle continues.

The closest thing to pay to win back then was the Cicada X-5 and it's still the only mech that can't equip an AMS.

(Funny enough, the terrible ones in MWO when put into Megamek are fantastic. The great ones, purely invented by PGI for MWO, are absolute trash in Megamek with extremely excessive cooling or their almost brutal weaponry in MWO is about worthless in Megamek/Battletech).

---

Power creep issues aside, for the most part Hero mechs are pay to have a franken mech with its own quirks that is still either on par to or weaker than the regular free mechs, except for the single months when they get slightly overquirked and then severely nerfed.

[Morggo]

Koniving, on 27 April 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think they'll actually (possibly) cut the structure quirks to about 75% or 50% of what they are, then put it on all Jenners. Maybe a slight edge to the Oxide 'cause... "Oxides can't jump."
Rofl.
*snip*
Problem is -- Jenners got hardpoints in a wonky way, the best Jenner is the 7-D. Best of everything that PGI gave it. It wouldn't be so great if you couldn't do max armor. Then all Jenners have some of the highest engines you can possibly get for a Light which is why most of them got screwed on any armor/structure quirks. (Most shouldn't have anything that rivals the Raven 3L anyway.)
The 7-K should have got the better hardpoints and the 7-F should have gotten Oxide's structure quirks. This is because like the Raven 4X, the Jenner JR7-F is a brawling light with exactly the same stock armor. As such it should be on par in tankiness with the Raven 4X.
The Oxide's armor is identical to a Jenner JR7-D. As such, if an Oxide gets the buff the Jenner JR7-D should. And the Jenner JR7-K... has the worst armor of all stock and nothing to make up for it in hardpoints. So what would we do then (except give it the same quirks)?

Even as a huge Oxide fan, I'd be okay with something along these lines. Like I said earlier, I'm comfortable enough in Jenny O I'd still enjoy running her. Probably just means a bit of an adjustment in my zoom & boom style to compensate but, yeah, I'd still run her with those nerfs. (if anything, the reward would be some love to my other Jenners which I love running too... )

[IQcreditscore]

Currently mechbays are the only thing holding back the f2p crowd. Too much time to acquire them with the new fw patch. Only got one free mechbay as I only was ingame 10 days before the patch. Spent some cash on plenty of mechbays so the rest is probably f2p for the near future. The mechbay bottleneck will discourage f2p players especially with the wonky basic/elite/mastery scale for mechs. Having to buy then sell and acquire a different variant becomes very credit intensive at that point. Being able to keep variants I liked or grind multiple mechs at a time towards those unlocks would encourage f2p players.
Even if you tied the bays to player rating increases (a plus in my mind although alts may become more of a problem then), and total games played (every 300ish a free mechbay or 200 or whatever works).

[WANTED]

Yeah Kon. Funny, I never saw them nerf the AC/20 velocity till now on Yen Lo so yes it's about the same as the AH but has a couple of more movement buffs of 35% over the AH. Otherwise the same except for the AH missles and the Yen Lo lasers.

For OP, just don't go out and spend you Cbills from training and early missions yet. Many make that mistake and hate the mech they have. THEN, you do have to grind it out for what you really want. So test trials for awhile and watch videos and check loadouts for mechs you prefer ( Laser vomit?(( All lasers big time )), Dakka?(( All ballistic weapons primarily since not much heat if fired properly )) or Missle boats (( Up close SRMS and Streaks or LRMS for long range )) There are combos of these but most settle into a primary way of playing their mechs and style. Find yours and stick to that. Then you can play around with other configs and mechs for fun.

[WVAnonymous]

I've been paying money into this game since it was possible to pay money.

If it was pay to win, I would not be firmly stuck at the low side of Tier 3.

I want my P2W!

[Digital_Angel]

Morggo, on 27 April 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Once they eventually nerf my Oxide, I fully expect I'll still wreck face with her. It's not always about the quirks, but more about the pilot, again that's just my opinion. (take the Huggin. People claim it's unplayable after it's infamous nerfing. I played with someone just last night killing left and right in one just fine...)

Yeah, that was fun, but honestly that run in my Huginn last night was average at best. That's why I swapped back to other stuff for a while. Just wasn't feeling the Raven last night. Like most of my Lights, it is a mech that I do really well or really poorly in depending on how in the zone I am that night. It doesn't give many matches in between unfortunately.

Edited by LadyDanams, 27 April 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[SeaFireliv]

After reading this topic, I`ve decided to give this a go. I have been a long term Mech fan, ever since the BattleTech boardgame days, but stayed away from this due to the percieved `pay to Win`.

I`ll try it out as is and see if it`s worth the investment. Thanks for this thread.

[Koniving]

SeaFireliv, on 27 April 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

After reading this topic, I`ve decided to give this a go. I have been a long term Mech fan, ever since the BattleTech boardgame days, but stayed away from this due to the percieved `pay to Win`.

I`ll try it out as is and see if it`s worth the investment. Thanks for this thread.

Surprised it was ever perceived as pay to win.
Now keep in mind MWO is "not" going to play like Battletech.

3x or greater firing rates (and nearly equal increases in heat generation), 2x armor/structure or greater, slightly over 1x heat dissipation rates (to TT, once you get to elite skill trees).

The other thing to remember is that ECM is a magical cloaking device (from sensors) with a plethora of counters, and BAP is not a Jesus Box (complete opposite of Battletech's double blind for those two where BAP is a jesus box and ECM doesn't mean much at all but has almost no counters.)

Welcome to MWO and last but not least:

Lasers, keep on target. MGs, keep on target (they are scripted like lasers). Autocannons and SRMs, lead the target (shoot ahead of them). LRMs require a lock. R to target, hover crosshair to lock. LRMs will become 'stupid' if you don't maintain the lock.

Last but not least -- go through the Academy. Free cash, gets you used to the basics and controls. And the guy's nice... unlike the MW2 instructors.

"Congratulations, you have shown that you can follow orders. My dog follows orders. I like my dog." - MW2 Clan instructor.

Edited by Koniving, 27 April 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[Void Angel]

Koniving, on 27 April 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Surprised it was ever perceived as pay to win.

Don't be - remember all those guys who waged their campaign of disinformation during the Steam release? The ones who have gotten the subject of MWO banned from the Star Citizen forums? Yeah, they've been spreading the lie around periodically - that's where the myth comes from.

[northpow]

BTW I think MechBays are basically PGI's attempt to convince regular players to at least spend a tiny amount of money. It seems like a pretty modest and reasonable request since you'd have to play a lot to use up the MechBays you get for free.

[Khereg]

No.

It's understand and adapt to win.

There's plenty of chassis available for c-bills that are top tier meta capable. However, learning to build and use them to perform at that level takes a lot of investment on the part of the player and a willingness to throw off bad ideas and continuously evolve your approach. It also requires substantial amounts of teamwork, if that wasn't patently obvious.

On the flip side, you can throw money at the game and quickly buy up the "best" chassis available. But if you don't do the above, the winning won't come.

You can't simply buy your way to an advantage in this game and you can absolutely beat those who try to do just that if you're smart, willing to learn, and cooperate with your teammates.

Edited by Khereg, 27 April 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Zirakss]

Definitly not pay to win.

You can pay to accelerate your grind and get the new mechs early on.

It can happen that a new mechs enters the playing field and it's kind of overpowered. So some people who preordered it, will get an advantage until the next patch. On the other hand they can get a mech which is total garbage and needs some patches to be competative.

In my opionion PGI is making a good job, in balancing it out.

I would say MWO is a little bit like LOL in terms of pay to win: You can get stuff more early, can learn it faster and get so an advantage. All the rest is about comfort and vanity. You can avoid the grind if you want to, you can dress your mech in nice camo patters and fancy colors. Much like the option to buy a champion or a skin for real money in LOL.

LOL is considered not pay to win and I would say the same about MWO.

[TheArcher]

I've bought a fair bit with cash over 2.5 years. I'm definitely not winning

I just see it as Pay2KeepTheDevsWorkingAndTheServersOn. That doesn't work as an acronym though.