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Player Population And Retention. Here Are Some Ideas.

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#1 Zakerystrife

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:05 AM

I've been playing this game since the beginning. I've been around since closed beta. I'm not the best pilot, or claim to be that good. I am a Barely Adequate Gamer after all! But now that Community Warfare Phase 3 has come and is now in the tweaking / balancing phase, I think we seriously need to address the player population.

The new players are coming and going at an alarming rate, and the steam player numbers are less than stellar, and constantly dropping, often below 2000 players, as I am typing this its under 1000. Half the problem here is KEEPING your players in the game. My friends and I have discussed a few issues that we believe could easily fix the issue with player retention, and overall casual player enjoyment.

When we play as a group, MOST OF THE TIME we are matched up against highly skilled players, and they are usually in a pretty large group. Our group mostly consists of tier 3 or 4 skilled players, and a few 2 and 1's. But if we ever group with T2 or T1, we almost ALWAYS get matched against much higher skilled players. One of the big issues here is the lack of tiers. I understand that they are the way they are because of the amount of players, but we thought of a few ways to fix this issue.
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Aside from adding more ranks to the PSR (Tier) system, we also believe that group sizes MUST be limited back down to 4 maximum. Community Warfare is the place to run your 12 man groups, not public match making. By doing this, it will not only give us quicker matches, but it would reduce deathballing a considerable amount. 4 groups of 3 is not nearly as powerful as two groups of 6. Communication in this game is a huge advantage, and for the public group queue, its really hurting the casual / newer players.




Another feature we think would be amazing in this game is dynamic match sizes. Based on the PSR system / amount of time to get into a match, you could see match sizes anywhere from a 8v8 to a 12v12 (These numbers are only an example). That way you get into matches much quicker, and they are more evenly matched. I've seen other games do this, the first that comes to mind is War Thunder.





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A big issue I hear from many pilots is that they bought their first mech and just DO NOT like it. The issue here, is that it's a pretty huge purchase for a new player, and if its something they do not enjoy as soon as they are entering the grind phase of the game, they simply have no reason to keep playing. So what we suggest is that you allow players to build a loadout and TEST any mech in either the training grounds or against AI bots (I know they aren't in yet). That way the pilot is a lot better informed about the mech they are buying. (Also add mechlab tutorials).




Since so many mechs are now in the game (over 300+) we also believe that the amount of starting mech bays either needs to change, or allow the player to EARN mechbays for playing casually. Example - after 25 matches you also get a new mechbay, and also earn them by achievments, it doesn't have to be much, maybe only 2-4 to unlock, but give the player a GOAL to work towards. With the current system you CAN earn mechbays through Community Warfare, but you can't seriously expect a new player to be joining Community Warfare just to earn mechbays.




I understand mechbays are the bread and butter of the game, but it doesn't really matter much if the players are leaving before you can convince them to buy anything.





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One more thing we would like to see is a salvaging feature, collecting parts of mechs / weapons / engines, and allowing the player to build or sell this salvage, with a "Factory" section. Giving the player something to look forward to keeps the player engaged, and wanting to play more. "I just need the Cicada 2A right torso, and I could build the mech in the factory!". Something along those lines. Keeping new players engaged, and give them goals, means more long term commitment. A great example of this is Warframe.




Building a mech from salvage would cost c-bills, but a considerable amount less than buying the mech new. Also the parts would be pretty rare, so it would take a long time to collect these parts. We have more ideas for salvage and the factory, these are only examples. But you must remember this is a game, we believe it would make it more fun for the casuals / new players.





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Lastly is the pilot skill tree. As it is now, is well, not good. But what we decided would help, is a buyout option for the skills. Instead of investing A LOT of cbills into mechs just to mastery them, you could also have the option to buyout the 2x / elite / mastery slot with a lot of mech EXP. We wanted to remove the 3 chassis limit altogether, but since some people do want 3 of a certain chassis, instead decided a buyout option would be better.




Example - make it so you have to earn the basic tree, then to unlock the next section, the TOTAL amount of the basic tree to unlock the next section, etc etc. This would allow the free to play players to keep mechbay space, but grind a bit more to get skills. There is a trade-off, but I think it would be worth it.





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One last thing that I literally just thought of, is the mechlab. When a new player is experiencing the mechlab for the first time, it can be extremely overwhelming. Obviously a tutorial would help, but on top of that, how about a "Suggested Loadout" button? I know for every mech that would be a lot of work, but adding a simple button into the mechlab, allows the player to have a fairly decent loadout for the mech they just bought, and be an enjoyable experience with little effort. Then they can decide to tweak the loadout, or completely change it, when they feel a bit more comfortable in the mechlab.







That's about it for now, I think most of these ideas should be coming into the game no matter what at this point. If you want to keep new players, and long term casual players, I believe it would help tremendously. If you have any other suggestions please discuss. Right now I think PGI needs to seriously shift focus a bit here, because the game seems to be suffering from lack of population, and I personally want to see this game succeed. Without a strong base population, this game wont have a very big e-sports scene.

Please excuse my spelling / horrible grammar / scattered thoughts. Lets keep this post active, positive, and lets get the devs noticing this post!

Edited by Zakerystrife, 27 April 2016 - 08:22 AM.


#2 mack sabbath

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:21 AM

I especially liked the idea of earning Mech bays periodically during the grind.

#3 SplashDown

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:34 AM

Another idea would be to ajust the mastery system...as a new player money is very very tight,,and it can get very boring and makes the game feel very slow paced when a player with limited funds is forced to buy 3 of the same mech to master it..especialy if the player doesnt even like the other variants.....to fix this a player should be able to master each individual variant...so that they can use extra credits to buy more important things like moduals and consumables....this would give the game a faster feeling pace imo,,,and would promote interest instead of bordum in the game,

#4 Jiyu Mononoke

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:37 AM

We NEED better chat modules in the game. Better integration with the interface. I'd make it "room based" chat so that units or even small groups of friends can have a "club house" that can be visited by others wandering through, or locked for privacy. Better in game "profiles", notes in my friends list (so I remember who's who - who's this guy again?).
- I'm a huge advocate for a "place to hang out", make the game community easier to access.

http://mwomercs.com/...23#entry5012123

#5 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:42 AM

I agree completely about the "I don't like my first mech" problem. This goes in part to the new player experience. At the very least there should be some sort of cooling off period (say 5-10 matches) after which a new player can sell their new mech at 100% of the purchase cost in order to buy a different one.

#6 RePlayBoy101

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:54 AM

i just want the assaults to be tankier ... they shuld assault and not hide in the back Posted Image

Edited by RePlayBoy101, 27 April 2016 - 08:54 AM.


#7 Endimra

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 08:59 AM

View PostZakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Lastly is the pilot skill tree. As it is now, is well, not good. But what we decided would help, is a buyout option for the skills. Instead of investing A LOT of cbills into mechs just to mastery them, you could also have the option to buyout the 2x / elite / mastery slot with a lot of mech EXP. We wanted to remove the 3 chassis limit altogether, but since some people do want 3 of a certain chassis, instead decided a buyout option would be better.

Just remove the skill tree entirely. This kind of stuff is acceptable in PvE games with a PvP element, but this is a purely PvP game. I don't know why we tolerate new players being at an automatic disadvantage even beyond not knowing how to play and not having a well-built mech.

It certainly would have made me quit if I didn't have a friend guiding me through the beginning.



#8 Dread Render

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:08 AM

really think it would be a good idea to emphasize Building Your Own Mech.
Its about my favorite thing.
The only thing about that is they need to give new players Lots of C-Bills to play with and waist making mistakes to start with,
I'm thinking start new players off with like 100,000,000 C-Bills to play with.
This would go a very long way in keeping new players.

Lets Get'er done

#9 Silas7

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:16 AM

The mech skill trees are not fun but they are impactful both positively and negatively. There is no long-term engagement built into this game. PGI is trying to keep peoples interest with a half-baked product. I'm new, i've also paid them way more than i should've I don't regret it as much as some of the older players but if I had compared MWO to other online-only multiplayer only games I wouldn't have invested nearly as much if anything at all.

I agree with OP's suggestions and think many of them would be healthy for the games player base.

Edited by Silas7, 27 April 2016 - 09:17 AM.


#10 Johnny Z

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:26 AM

View PostSilas7, on 27 April 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

The mech skill trees are not fun but they are impactful both positively and negatively. There is no long-term engagement built into this game. PGI is trying to keep peoples interest with a half-baked product. I'm new, i've also paid them way more than i should've I don't regret it as much as some of the older players but if I had compared MWO to other online-only multiplayer only games I wouldn't have invested nearly as much if anything at all.

I agree with OP's suggestions and think many of them would be healthy for the games player base.


Haha, half baked is so accurate. :) and its funny. Hear that PGI your product is half baked! I can already hear the reply "We know!"

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 April 2016 - 09:27 AM.


#11 El Bandito

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:28 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 27 April 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

The game needs more boobs


Cause you know, youth and their raging hormones...

#12 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:31 AM


View PostEndimra, on 27 April 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:




Just remove the skill tree entirely. This kind of stuff is acceptable in PvE games with a PvP element, but this is a purely PvP game. I don't know why we tolerate new players being at an automatic disadvantage even beyond not knowing how to play and not having a well-built mech.

It certainly would have made me quit if I didn't have a friend guiding me through the beginning.








I sort of agree with this but the skill tree does add another layer to the customization and an additional RPG element to the game that I would hate to see go away. The game is already pretty one dimensional ie. Skirmish Skirmish and more Skirmish. The Mechlab and skill trees provide interesting diversions. They need to stay but I do think that they need some attention.




When I first started out, I thought I was on level playing ground with those I was playing with and against. It was frustrating how bad I was and how quickly I died. Those times I died I would spectate to try to learn. Only then did I discover that some of the other players were running modules like Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor, Target Gathering etc. and that they could see better than me, hide better than me, move faster than me, shoot faster than me and shoot more often than me. It was a WTF moment.




I then learned about the skill and modules systems and started grinding EXP and GXP to level the Mechs. Now, the Mechs are closer to optimized, I have gotten a little better and my W/L and K/D ratios are starting to drag themselves out of the cellar.




I can certainly understand why new players would get frustrated quickly and quit the game well before the time that they were able to get themselves and their Mechs to a somewhat competent level.


#13 Johnny Z

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:32 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 27 April 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:


Cause you know, youth and their raging hormones...


One of the greatest contributions to gaming was made by Mass Effect 2.



Mass Effect 3 was awesome to.


Edited by Johnny Z, 27 April 2016 - 09:58 AM.


#14 Silas7

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:38 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 27 April 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:


Cause you know, youth and their raging hormones...


EL bandito quoting himself Posted Image

#15 Spheroid

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:44 AM

This is a false problem. In this age of Steam people buy and consume games at a massive rate. Unless you can prove MWO is failing in relation to a similar sized games the complaint has no merit.

Look at AAA FPS like Battlefront or Hardline or any generic shooter. The servers are dead in six months.

Myself and the other whales will be here until the end.

Edited by Spheroid, 27 April 2016 - 09:45 AM.


#16 hero2zero

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:49 AM

Not so much aimed towards new players, but I would like to revert the Match Making system back to random (as in no PSR); I don't really mind playing higher tier players (there are alot of them), but playing with and against the same players for 5-6 matches in a row is pretty boring.

#17 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:49 AM

The real answer is fix the PPFLD causing everyone to die nearly instantly.

Im sure any outsider who comes into this game looks at it and sees huge stompy robots. They come with the mindset that "Hey, big stompy robots, huge walking tanks, surely they are tough, lets get in on this".

3, 2, 1..Reactor online, weapons online, Critical hit, center torso *You were killed by Metamaster1337*

Well, that was fun, lets try something else, lets take this big *** mech..its called...Atlas, it looks menacing!

3, 2, 1, Reactor Online, weapons online, all systems nominal, stompy, stompy, stompy...hey, enemy mech!!! lasers pew pew..."Warning critical damage"......*You were killed by LaZ0RPukeM4n*

Yup, well, that big *** thing isnt even strong, what do I even do to stay alive, even the biggest mechs die fast!!! **** this game, buh bye.

and im sure thats how it goes.

Do something about the TTK, the stability of mechs, and make it feel like were in rompy, stompy robots and not oversized call of duty suits.

#18 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 09:58 AM

View PostSpheroid, on 27 April 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

This is a false problem. In this age of Steam people buy and consume games at a massive rate. Unless you can prove MWO is failing in relation to a similar sized games the complaint has no merit.

Look at AAA FPS like Battlefront or Hardline or any generic shooter. The servers are dead in six months.

Myself and the other whales will be here until the end.


You make some good and valid points. However, the OP and his friends have come up with some good ideas that have merit and could help retain some player. It is not just Steam players that are leaving. Many BT/MW fans have also given up on MWOnline because of the current state of the game.


View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 27 April 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

The real answer is fix the PPFLD causing everyone to die nearly instantly.

Im sure any outsider who comes into this game looks at it and sees huge stompy robots. They come with the mindset that "Hey, big stompy robots, huge walking tanks, surely they are tough, lets get in on this".

3, 2, 1..Reactor online, weapons online, Critical hit, center torso *You were killed by Metamaster1337*

Well, that was fun, lets try something else, lets take this big *** mech..its called...Atlas, it looks menacing!

3, 2, 1, Reactor Online, weapons online, all systems nominal, stompy, stompy, stompy...hey, enemy mech!!! lasers pew pew..."Warning critical damage"......*You were killed by LaZ0RPukeM4n*

Yup, well, that big *** thing isnt even strong, what do I even do to stay alive, even the biggest mechs die fast!!! **** this game, buh bye.

and im sure thats how it goes.

Do something about the TTK, the stability of mechs, and make it feel like were in rompy, stompy robots and not oversized call of duty suits.



And this is the current state of the game. The Alpha Meta needs to go. Alphas should be very rare and very impactful on the Mech that uses or abuses them. PGI needs to brave the wrath of the FPS quick kill crowd and make a Mechwarrior game.

#19 Sky Hawk

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 10:01 AM

OK.. suggestions... as new player (in a really low Tier).. I had rebuild my Mechs after almost every match.. mostly enjoyed it.. but it cost sooo much CB's... damn... And there were some Mechs, which I can't play.. like Viktors (Ye.... there are still in my Mechlabs far corner.. those are really-really not my style..).. And.. I hadn't been in any Forum in the first half year of my gameplay... simply, because, I didn' know (and care) about it.. So... I would have suggest:

1. About.. [3-5] "I want Sell my Mech BACK at 100%" Free Token... for new players.. (So.. they can sell [3-5] their "really-not-fitting" Mechs on full price back, and even can keep the equipment..)

2. A second version of the MWO-Academy or Training Ground, with a hugh scroll list of "Community Recommended Builds" (with descriptions), with least 4-6 WORKING builds for EVERY Mech variants (examples for every major playstyle, from brawler to supports, even could be there some near troll variants too.. ).. The players could just choose a suggested a build and could run with it some free round, without the need to buy every stuff.. (So, a largely extended version of the Trial Mechs, but just for the Training Grounds/MWA..)

3. IN THE MECHSHOP there could be another pop-up window text, like:

"For more info to this Mech, please look at 'here: Web-adress of the MWO-FORUM-build help page'. Do you want to see it now? [Y/N]" (Or least something similar...)

Edited by Sky Hawk, 27 April 2016 - 10:03 AM.


#20 Ryokens leap

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Posted 27 April 2016 - 10:06 AM

A lot of players come and go because they are part of the button mashing console hoard and MWO is not compatible with that demographic.





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