149 replies to this topic

[KinLuu]

Barantor, on 27 April 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

So I say the "Big Boys" need to pick, is the group queue the 'end game' or is it CW?

Well, it surely is not CW.

Most of the 'Big Boys' do not even play CW.

[QuePan]

how does a Console player fit into a pc game dynamic ?? console gamers arent looking at any non cross platform title . its not even on there radar . even if they have a semi decent PC to boot .

[Barantor]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Well, it surely is not CW.

Most of the 'Big Boys' do not even play CW.

Odd because the whole thought of that solo queue came about because folks complained and large groups told them that it was the 'epic end game content'.

[Blitxll]

you'll have complaints even if this was a perfect game. The goal should be add important elements that make this game stand apart from any other game. I'm sure we can all agree the mechlab is thee best thing about this game. the ability to tinker and tweak your mech to suit your playstyle is too much fun.

I think giving new players and old more achievable goals is the best way to make a game stand apart from the other clones. Once the money starts rolling in then we can deal with the big problems or should I say the "forever" problems of balance.

PvE doesn't make a game better it just adds a useless new gamemode. LoL added a PVE mode and it was trash(they even have the capital behind them). It teaches you nothing of how real gameplay is cause no matter how good your AI is it will always be predictable. It doesn't incentivize spending if anything it deters spending. Also the community always uses it as a crutch whenever they encounter some one bad saying "go to PvE and L2P"

For LoL the best thing for the casuals was a game mode that wasn't as complicated as the original game. ARAM All Random All Mid, it was fun and simple and specifically designed for just goofing around. Maybe that would be the easy first step to help keeps casuals around (although the argument could be made that quick play is already the dumbed down version of this game ).

other goal orieneted ideas:
-Salvage economy and/or more things to spend C-bills and GXP on.
-More Achievements (i hate achievements) to the use of different weapons and the way you kill people
- Grindable mechs. Non-purchasable mechs that you get only by playing the game.
- Faction specific mechs. that can only be acquired by grinding LP

[KinLuu]

Barantor, on 28 April 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Odd because the whole thought of that solo queue came about because folks complained and large groups told them that it was the 'epic end game content'.

What? I remember that completely different. I remember the deathbirth that is the CW soloqueue, to come into existance, because poor baby seals complained about beeing clubbed to death. Again and again and again.

[Barantor]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

What? I remember that completely different. I remember the death-birth that is the CW solo queue, to come into existence, because poor baby seals complained about being clubbed to death. Again and again and again.

I read all about the solo queue when folks were posting about it and every time someone suggested it there were always a few people that basically called it the deep end of the pool and folks needed to get out if they weren't ready for it. "End Game" was mentioned several times.

I just find it interesting that the only place some folks are saying people are even allowed to be bad/new at the game is in the solo queue, where they get no guidance and will probably quit unless they either really like it or are a dedicated fan of the series.

Edited by Barantor, 28 April 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[Ghogiel]

KinLuu, on 28 April 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

What? I remember that completely different. I remember the deathbirth that is the CW soloqueue, to come into existance, because poor baby seals complained about beeing clubbed to death. Again and again and again.

I remember as much whining from all sides. every week a thread going up about raising the requirement for CW entry/ not allowing trial mechs etc as well as the QQ about getting farmed by 12mans

[KinLuu]

Barantor, on 28 April 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

I just find it interesting that the only place some folks are saying people are even allowed to be bad/new at the game is in the solo queue, where they get no guidance and will probably quit unless they either really like it or are a dedicated fan of the series.

You can be as bad as you want in the group queue as well.

It only becomes a problem, once you start to mix players of different caliber - as this will make the matchmaker come down on you with the wrath of an angry god.

Edited by KinLuu, 28 April 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[Blind Baku]

Endimra, on 28 April 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Playerbase is too small, dividing them further with tons of options just gets you 10 minute queues. Same reason we can't select only certain maps or game modes.

pbiggz, on 28 April 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Have fun never finding a match ever ever ever. The CW solo queue took less than a week to die because nobody was in it. The more pools you add the smaller each pool gets and the longer your queue times are.

Hmm... makes sense I guess. Thank you both for the response.

[Zakerystrife]

pbiggz, on 28 April 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Have fun never finding a match ever ever ever. The CW solo queue took less than a week to die because nobody was in it. The more pools you add the smaller each pool gets and the longer your queue times are.

It dissolved because PGI made it so you could only earn Loyalty Points if you were in a Unit, or a Loyalist. Most people don't want to commit to being a Loyalist, so they just made a 1 man unit, and left the solo queue. It was a bad design choice IMO.

[Ghogiel]

Zakerystrife, on 28 April 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

It dissolved because PGI made it so you could only earn Loyalty Points if you were in a Unit, or a Loyalist. Most people don't want to commit to being a Loyalist, so they just made a 1 man unit, and left the solo queue. It was a bad design choice IMO.

Yeah partially. The rewards for freelancer was totally non existant. While the rewards for being a merc arent bad, so people will obviously pick that, max out the merc ranks for the swag, then switch to loyalist later.

The other thing is there wasn't an attempt at a solo queue. If they did a real solo queue then it would have been the group queue that would have been a stillborn.

[KinLuu]

Ghogiel, on 28 April 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

The other thing is there wasn't an attempt at a solo queue. If they did a real solo queue then it would have been the group queue that would have been a stillborn.

I agree, this would have been a very likely outcome.

But to implement a real solo queue in CW, PGI would have needed to completely redo the way people queue in CW (at least for the solo queue). I guess that simply was too much work for it to be considered.

[vortmax]

Long-time player (Founder, closed beta), but nowhere near "elite." Here's my thoughts.

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Aside from adding more ranks to the PSR (Tier) system, we also believe that group sizes MUST be limited back down to 4 maximum. Community Warfare is the place to run your 12 man groups, not public match making. By doing this, it will not only give us quicker matches, but it would reduce deathballing a considerable amount. 4 groups of 3 is not nearly as powerful as two groups of 6. Communication in this game is a huge advantage, and for the public group queue, its really hurting the casual / newer players.

The immediate response is "But I want to play with six of my group-mates for a 7-man drop!" Well, synch up or go FW, which is what I consider the "end-game" of MWO. I believe the quick-play queue should be exactly that: quick-play. Not "competitive quick-play" but "quick-play." It should cater to those who don't play for hours on end, who only have time for a few drops, who only want to level their new mechs, or who want to see what this game is about.

Faction Warfare is the "end-game" mode where people are supposed to use teamwork to achieve a specified goal. Quick-play is supposed to be fun. Fun isn't Meta-ing up with a 12-man group and roflstomping noobs (at least in my book). Fun is getting into matches quickly with different players in different mechs and having totally unexpected outcomes. A group limit of 4 players would help achieve that, IMO.

If people want to practice for their league plays, they should practice against either members of their own unit or schedule scrims with other units and do it in private matches. After all, these types of players are already members of large units and mostly have fully stocked inventories of meta-build mechs.

The Tier system was primarily designed to keep new players from being roflstomped by more experienced players. The problem is it doesn't work very well in the large group queue situation. By going to smaller groups, it works a bit better. I don't know if introducing more tiers helps, so I'm ambivalent on that particular idea.

Bottom line: I fully agree with you on bringing back 4-man group limits in quick-play. Modify the tonnage limits if needed to keep mech balance. More tiers... I don't know.

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Another feature we think would be amazing in this game is dynamic match sizes. Based on the PSR system / amount of time to get into a match, you could see match sizes anywhere from a 8v8 to a 12v12 (These numbers are only an example). That way you get into matches much quicker, and they are more evenly matched. I've seen other games do this, the first that comes to mind is War Thunder.

That sounds great, but I don't know if the MM engine could support it, or whether the logic would be overly complex to implement (I'm a software engineer, so I may have a unique perspective on this subject). If it can be implemented, I don't see why it shouldn't as it would allow for faster queue times in low pop situations.

I would also like to add a possible new play mode: Random 4v4. Players can either drop into this queue solo or in a group of 2-4. Upon entering, each player is assigned a completely random mech, unmodified, from the entire inventory of mechs available in MWO. One mech per class per side. Mode is Skirmish only, and for even quicker games have it be on the 4v4 map (but standard quick-play maps could be used).

Obviously would take both interface and regular programming to implement, but doesn't it sound fun?

Bottom line: I support this idea.

Quote

A big issue I hear from many pilots is that they bought their first mech and just DO NOT like it. The issue here, is that it's a pretty huge purchase for a new player, and if its something they do not enjoy as soon as they are entering the grind phase of the game, they simply have no reason to keep playing. So what we suggest is that you allow players to build a loadout and TEST any mech in either the training grounds or against AI bots (I know they aren't in yet). That way the pilot is a lot better informed about the mech they are buying. (Also add mechlab tutorials).

The only way right now to test mech chassis is the training grounds, where only one version of a few select chassis are available. I agree that isn't enough.

Here's my idea: Change the training grounds' mech selection process.

The player moves into a circle labeled "Mech Hangar." Here, the entire list of mechs available in MWO opens up. Have options similar to the Camo/Colors box (All/Owned/Sale) on that list. A player selects their mech, then enters the mechlab to modify said mech (said modifications cost nothing). The player can then return to the Training Grounds with said mech and test it.

Additional: If they like it, they can return to the "Mech Hangar" and have a "Purchase" option available that has both the MC & Cbill cost for the base mech plus the CBill cost for the modifications.

This would let new players try mechs and builds at no cost, and let them purchase said mechs if they want.

Quote

Since so many mechs are now in the game (over 300+) we also believe that the amount of starting mech bays either needs to change, or allow the player to EARN mechbays for playing casually.

Perhaps have the ability to buy mechbays with GXP. Thus it requires a grind for those who won't pay, or gives players the incentive to buy MC for XP->GXP conversion (psst... PGI... $$). I have no idea what the cost should be, or whether it should be on a gradually increasing scale (e.g. start at 20K GXP for first mechbay, with 2.5k more GXP for the next mechbay).

Quote

One more thing we would like to see is a salvaging feature, collecting parts of mechs / weapons / engines, and allowing the player to build or sell this salvage, with a "Factory" section. Giving the player something to look forward to keeps the player engaged, and wanting to play more. "I just need the Cicada 2A right torso, and I could build the mech in the factory!". Something along those lines. Keeping new players engaged, and give them goals, means more long term commitment. A great example of this is Warframe.

I've wondered since "Salvage" was introduced whether or not this could be implemented. One way of implementing:

- Upon the end of game, for each player (or X players with highest match score) on the winning team, randomly select a mech section that had zero damage to internal structure. Start with player with the highest match score and work down until all available sections are distributed, or all players (or X players) get a section.
- Pop up a dialog (most likely after exiting the match) asking if the player wishes to buy that section for a GXP amount (e.g. "Salvage: CDA-2A Right Torso. Do you wish to purchase for 10k GXP").
- If the player doesn't buy it, it's discarded and ignored.
- If the player does buy it and doesn't have the mech in his inventory, a mech is added, but is labeled "Incomplete" until they collect all the sections available.
- An "incomplete" mech can be completed for the New cost of said mech minus the CBill salvage value of the currently possessed sections.

NOTE: The salvage system will only apply to mechs available via CBills. No Hero/Champion mechs can be salvaged.

The obvious downside of this will be some CT sections may never be available. But that's the thing with salvage: you go with what you can... salvage.

Hrm, that's the second time GXP has come up. Perhaps there's something there re: using GXP for other means?

Quote

Lastly is the pilot skill tree. As it is now, is well, not good. But what we decided would help, is a buyout option for the skills. Instead of investing A LOT of cbills into mechs just to mastery them, you could also have the option to buyout the 2x / elite / mastery slot with a lot of mech EXP. We wanted to remove the 3 chassis limit altogether, but since some people do want 3 of a certain chassis, instead decided a buyout option would be better.

Example - make it so you have to earn the basic tree, then to unlock the next section, the TOTAL amount of the basic tree to unlock the next section, etc etc. This would allow the free to play players to keep mechbay space, but grind a bit more to get skills. There is a trade-off, but I think it would be worth it.

So, if I understand correctly:
- Pilot levels basic tree normally.
- To unlock the next tree, pay the total amount of the basic tree AGAIN to unlock the Elite tree.

If this is implemented, I would suggest requiring GXP be used for the unlocking of the next tree. This means more grind time, but it would open up the possibility for the F2P player, and possibly force that player to make a decision ("Get that next tree, or get a mechbay in 3k more GXP? Perhaps buy some MC (psst... PGI... $$) to transfer some of my Mastered mech's XP to GXP to unlock this mech's elite tree?")

And again... GXP... That seems to be a good idea for a common currency that can also be "purchased" using MC for XP->GXP transfer (psst... PGI... $$).

Quote

One last thing that I literally just thought of, is the mechlab. When a new player is experiencing the mechlab for the first time, it can be extremely overwhelming. Obviously a tutorial would help, but on top of that, how about a "Suggested Loadout" button? I know for every mech that would be a lot of work, but adding a simple button into the mechlab, allows the player to have a fairly decent loadout for the mech they just bought, and be an enjoyable experience with little effort. Then they can decide to tweak the loadout, or completely change it, when they feel a bit more comfortable in the mechlab.

That would be a lot of work to make a suggested loadout for every mech. It would also imply that the default loadout, well, sucks. I say table this one and go with the aforementioned Training Grounds idea, where a player can toy with loadouts to their heart's content.

Edited by vortmax, 28 April 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Deathlike]

Right now, FW activity is decaying a bit, so Quick Play is more a favorable option to run at times over FW.

Unless FW improves drastically (and this hotfix won't really address that effectively either), there's no real incentive to do FW over Quick Play.

There's no good option to funnel people to something undesirable... unless you want people to stop playing.

The biggest reason we even have the silly voting system is that majority of people aren't going to play on the Oceanic servers with whatever the worst mode happens to be. Being the "special case" makes it infinitely harder to match people, let alone attempt to match people's supposed PSR properly.

So, if people refuse to understand WHY things are the way they are... then whatever.

[Impyrium]

Really like the salvage idea. Would require a lot of work on PGI's part, but with the right balance it could integrate into the game well without damaging the existing economy.

Would also like to see it integrated somehow with my black market idea...

[Silas7]

player trading via "black market" sounds pretty cool, and could start a player economy for mechs with camo's and c-bill / xp boosts and a strong build.

[Zakerystrife]

Well my question was asked on the Town Hall last night, and all i can say is how disappointed I am. Here's is the question and answers they gave.... Adding a link to the video if you would like to hear it from him, himself.

https://www.twitch.t...620735?t=19m28s

• 
  
  Question: What exactly are you going to do for the new player experience, and the long term casual players? As of right now, steam stats are showing a consistent 15%-20% loss per month.
  
  Russ: Loaded question. Hears conflicting imploring tweets from those who want accessibility vs hardcore. Nobody has month over month growth anyways. Steam is a minority aspect of population. On question, the features coming eg Command Wheel should suffice and nothing major is planned.

• 
  
  Command wheel update. Daeron: thinks it will be very useful, as some don't have mics. Russ: it's an update to the way the minimap will be displayed. It'll be about seeing the entire map at a glance. Press and hold E to give 5 commands, more if lance/company commander. Audio cue, chat broadcast, symbol on minimap.

Edited by Zakerystrife, 30 April 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[DarkBazerker]

Zakerystrife, on 30 April 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Well my question was asked on the Town Hall last night, and all i can say is how disappointed I am. Here's is the question and answers they gave.... Adding a link to the video if you would like to hear it from him, himself.

https://www.twitch.t...620735?t=19m28s

• 
  
  
  
  Question: What exactly are you going to do for the new player experience, and the long term casual players? As of right now, steam stats are showing a consistent 15%-20% loss per month.
  
  Russ: Loaded question. Hears conflicting imploring tweets from those who want accessibility vs hardcore. Nobody has month over month growth anyways. Steam is a minority aspect of population. On question, the features coming eg Command Wheel should suffice and nothing major is planned.

• 
  
  
  
  Command wheel update. Daeron: thinks it will be very useful, as some don't have mics. Russ: it's an update to the way the minimap will be displayed. It'll be about seeing the entire map at a glance. Press and hold E to give 5 commands, more if lance/company commander. Audio cue, chat broadcast, symbol on minimap.

So what we can see, hear, experience, isn't real? So what I got out of that was " I'm going to ignore that question and answer a question that wasn't asked".

Edited by DarkBazerker, 30 April 2016 - 10:09 PM.

[Foxtrot four eight]

Well if we are wishing for things here are mine:

1. Allow people to mod the game, e.g. maps, HUD, game modes.

2. Allocate a small portion of MC for completing achievements.

3. Stop charging people for private matches.

4. Allow private matches to be anywhere from 2v2 to 12v12.

5. Offer a subscription option with modest rewards.

6. Offer more Mechs that offer specialized functions similar to Cyclops.

Well there it is, and there it shall stay *sigh*.

[Zakerystrife]

DarkBazerker, on 30 April 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

So what we can see, hear, experience, isn't real? So what I got out of that was " I'm going to ignore that question and answer a question that wasn't asked".

I am thoroughly convinced at this point that Russ, is too focused on "e-sports" which wont even take off past this tournament, because you don't have a player population big enough to even care. I'm just sad that at this point they don't realize that the casual players are the bread and butter of any game.

The reason I say this, is because anyone new coming in, if in a casual setting would be able to enjoy their playing experiences. However if you are constantly pushing away your casual crowd in favor of your "hardcore" crowd, then a new player will only experience players that are WAY more experienced then they are, and not stick around to pay PGI for mech bays.

The more casual players, the more income for PGI, the more income from PGI, the more / better content we receive. Its not rocket science people, and if you all fail to recognize the issue, then the problem isn't only PGI, but the players that are blindly following a "niche" game.

I hate the argument that this is a "niche" game. Warframe is a "niche" game, and extremely unique, and a free to play. Look at the steam stats - http://steamcharts.com/app/230410 it shows mostly growth over and over again.

The faction event did in fact bring more people into MWO this weekend, so the stats for MWO are actually up again, which is awesome. But if the content doesn't satisfy the crowd of people waiting for FW phase 3, then we will go right back down in numbers.

Also I'm calling crap on the whole "steam stats don't matter" because I believe they are a direct pattern to the player population, even with people using the game launcher. If this wasn't an issue then why do they STILL refuse to show player population?

Anyway I'm about done with this, because the forum warriors coming out and not helping or being constructive to the conversation at all. It just shows how blind this community really is.