149 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

I was hoping this didn't get stuck on a simple suggestion that I put in, I see a lot of people are back and forth about group caps. And yes I've been around since closed beta, I did play in the 4 man caps, and it was really fun. But remember I play casually. "just play solo queue" isn't an answer. I do like what Barantor brought up, you have CW now, so go play it. The game mode was voted in as a main priority and ironically very few are playing it.

For those of you that want to play in something bigger than a 4 man unit, you have private matches, you have community warfare, why can't casual players have something, not all of us want to sit there for hours on end learning the game, we just want to drop in and shoot stuff. If you want to train in your unit, play and learn against YOURSELF, pug stomping new players / casual players isn't teaching you anything. The game in its current state is not fun long term for new players or casuals because big group sizes are literally tearing it down.

To keep players it needs to be fun. To be fun you need to be able to casually play, and if you decide you want to get deeper in, you play CW, join a unit, skirmish etc etc. We should not be forced into a situation where we need to always be at our best, some of us just want to play and shoot crap. No I don't expect to win even half my matches playing like that, but this entire post was about new players and player retention, and making your casual / new crowd get stomped over and over and over and over and over, is not promoting positive player retention.

Now you are intimidating us to even joining group queue? Isn't this half the freaking problem? It shouldn't be intimidating, it should be FUN and enjoyable, why play a game that is intimidating?

I feel like people completely forgot how the queues were back in Open Beta.

You had solos mixed in with groups a max size of 4.

The biggest complaint that came up by solos was literally "didn't want to play/fight vs groups".

We're doing a shameful job of it right now and you're asking to go back to this?

Are you serious?

[Zakerystrife]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

No CW was also divided for the pug babies, so please quit crying already about it you've done enough damage to the game because you don't want to make friends or communicate with others.

The solution is PVE, it's just that simple.

Imperius I was hoping you'd be keeping this a bit more mature, but I guess I was wrong. We do make friends, and we do communicate, its quite fun actually. Now you claim that we are damaging the game? The casuals and killing it. Please sir, just sit back and think on this for a bit. Counter-Strike Exists. Is it competitive only? Hardcore gamers only? No. It has a massive casual scene, and because of it, it was able to grow into an e-sport.

Your base game has to be fun for EVERYONE, not just dedicated players. Same thing can be said about Star-Craft, LoL, Dota, all sorts of other games. They all have one thing in common, and that is a STRONG casual player base. PVE might be a solution, but we don't have that yet, and probably not for another year or more. So you can't bank on it now.

Now please stop acting like a child, and try to communicate a bit more maturely. Thank you.

[MechWarrior319348]

Maybe Russ has accidentally slipped away from the mentality of encouraging community networking; and has instead gone into a focus of trying to shove "rewards" in people's faces, and shoveling new offers out the door, and always trying to advertise the next hot item that's coming out.

I understand that he's running a business, but it seems entirely possible that he may have overlooked just how small of a community we are. He doesn't seems to do a whole lot of encouraging this small community to network; and to point us (the mob) in the right direction (point us at the important issues).

He seems to be following a strategy of advertisement. And "sell sell sell." I'm not attacking him, I just think maybe his business senses have really taken him over.

We need more micro management (alot of the suggestions you see in this thread). So that we can attract a bigger player base. He seems to think that the current community pool is his demographic, and that he needs to get the product sold to us, and not the new players.

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 27 April 2016 - 04:41 PM.

[LastKhan]

Solution is PVE wat.. Yeah, you heard him new player plebs! wait 5 more years for single player mode and play with yourselves cause all you suck! come on get real. Yea there is a solo que but even new players have friends that are new and vets alike.

[Zakerystrife]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

I feel like people completely forgot how the queues were back in Open Beta.

You had solos mixed in with groups a max size of 4.

The biggest complaint that came up by solos was literally "didn't want to play/fight vs groups".

We're doing a shameful job of it right now and you're asking to go back to this?

Are you serious?

No one said it has to go back to what it was, you can still run the same setup it has now, if they added dynamic group sizes. Example - Solo queue doesn't change. Group queue is 2-3-4 players. If you run a group of 3, it matches another group of 3 for 6, then a group of 2. So we have 3 + 3 + 2. 8 man team, match up to the other size, bingo, 8v8. If there were 4 man groups in the queue at the same time, 12 v 12. Or a 3 and 4 for 7, match up to make 7v7 etc etc etc.

I'm not suggesting these as singular features, more of a group of features that need to happen at the same time.

Edited by Zakerystrife, 27 April 2016 - 04:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

No one said it has to go back to what it was, you can still run the same setup it has now, if they added dynamic group sizes. Example - Solo queue doesn't change. Group queue is 2-3-4 players. If you run a group of 3, it matches another group of 3 for 6, then a group of 2. So we have 3 + 3 + 2. 8 man team, match up to the other size, bingo, 8v8. If there were 4 man groups in the queue at the same time, 12 v 12.

I'm not suggesting these as singular features, more of a group of features that need to happen at the same time.

No, absolutely not.

Most losses in the group queue are related to people derping... whether it is one person, or a whole team.

In a game where teamwork is the penultimate solution to winning, very little of that is done on a day to day basis and almost devoid of that in the solo queue.

Rather than blaming "big teams" for what they are, how about WORKING TOGETHER to succeed? Why is that NEVER on the table?

That's what bothers me most about this conversation... because that is literally 90+% of all group queue losses (the other 10% is like tactical errors/execution).

It has NOTHING to do with groups... it has more to do people NOT WILLING TO WORK TOGETHER.

[Imperius]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

Imperius I was hoping you'd be keeping this a bit more mature, but I guess I was wrong. We do make friends, and we do communicate, its quite fun actually. Now you claim that we are damaging the game? The casuals and killing it. Please sir, just sit back and think on this for a bit. Counter-Strike Exists. Is it competitive only? Hardcore gamers only? No. It has a massive casual scene, and because of it, it was able to grow into an e-sport.

Your base game has to be fun for EVERYONE, not just dedicated players. Same thing can be said about Star-Craft, LoL, Dota, all sorts of other games. They all have one thing in common, and that is a STRONG casual player base. PVE might be a solution, but we don't have that yet, and probably not for another year or more. So you can't bank on it now.

Now please stop acting like a child, and try to communicate a bit more maturely. Thank you.

Thinking you're entitled to win is childish. Again it's not unfair because everyone can make friends. The learning curve in this game is steep it really doesn't matter if they play group or solo new people will get stomped.

I already told you I agreed with everything else. I've been civil, I'm telling you just as others have you limit groups to 4 people again the game will die.

Why can't you just play the solo queue? Do you think your 3 friends are more important to cater to than someone's 11?

Edited by Imperius, 27 April 2016 - 04:52 PM.

[Airwind]

salvage is also a core of mechwarrior. but for a multiplayer game like this, what is stopping teammates to setup matches to exchange salvage of mechs? In maybe a few days they would own a whole garage of salvaged teammates mechs.
not sure how the salvage is calculated now. but it definately needs some tweaking to increase the amount.

[Zakerystrife]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

No, absolutely not.

Most losses in the group queue are related to people derping... whether it is one person, or a whole team.

In a game where teamwork is the penultimate solution to winning, very little of that is done on a day to day basis and almost devoid of that in the solo queue.

Rather than blaming "big teams" for what they are, how about WORKING TOGETHER to succeed? Why is that NEVER on the table?

That's what bothers me most about this conversation... because that is literally 90+% of all group queue losses (the other 10% is like tactical errors/execution).

It has NOTHING to do with groups... it has more to do people NOT WILLING TO WORK TOGETHER.

@Deathlike It would help if people didn't mute in game VOIP. I see that way to often. I guess thats why its frustrating in that respect as well, because we do try to communicate in game, people just don't listen or care.

@Imperius why should it cater to your 11 friends, if its statistically killing balance in the game? You cannot argue the fact that communication wins most games. There has to be a happy medium, it may not be group sizes of 4, but I still think it would help more then hurt at this point in time.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Farix, on 27 April 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

I'm going to call BS on this one. No one was leaving because group size was limited to 4 players. In fact, matches were far more dynamic—and fun—back then. If players left, it was entirely because of other factors and never over the group size being limited to 4.

Im gonna call BS on this one. When you have a group of 5 friends AND CANT PLAY TOGETHER

you leave for a game where you can

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

You try being a unit that can't play together see how long you bother to stick around. The main community left the game in droves. For what reason so bads can get false sense of being good? If groups are that bad go play solo queue. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

yeah cant argue with ppl who either a.) werent there or b.) werent affected because they dont have enough friends

[Imperius]

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Maybe he overlooked that PGI isn't flush with cash; and that we need to work with what he have. PVE sounds like A LOT of development. Maybe hes not trying to be immature; but is rather uninformed of our current situation. We have to get more players right now. We cant wait for them to develop PVE.

Seeing as it's been my stance for over 2 years now I'm quite informed I've been here since closed beta and have seen all the ups and downs caused by listening to the passerby players.

Steam and e-sports are both being pushed to grab new people into a game desperately needing a " safe place " for pugs. The only thing that will provide this is PVE.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Domino's? Monopoly? have fun finding another stompy robot game that's this fun.

online game... why do people like to pretend to be stupid and think it wins the argument?

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Steam and e-sports are both being pushed to grab new people into a game desperately needing a " safe place " for pugs. The only thing that will provide this is PVE.

they tried that with turrets. Whered they go?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

it was a joke brah

....and what they always say lol

[Farix]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Thinking you're entitled to win is childish.

If I play a game, I AM entitled to have fun. But a game that constantly subjects new and causal players to abuse is anything but fun.

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Why can't you just play the solo queue? Do you think your 3 friends are more important to cater to than someone's 11?

Because I have friend I like to play with. Solo queue gets boring after while, but playing with friends should be fun. However, were MWO is concerned, it is just frustration after frustration as we get rolled time and time again by the 10-12 mans.

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

I already told you I agreed with everything else. I've been civil, I'm telling you just as others have you limit groups to 4 people again the game will die.

Your attitude has been "casuals should stick to solo queue and not enjoy the remaining 90% of the game", which I find highly offensive and anything but civil. PGI needs to work on keeping the remaining casual players they still have instead of further driving them off.

[Deathlike]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

@Deathlike It would help if people didn't mute in game VOIP. I see that way to often. I guess thats why its frustrating in that respect as well, because we do try to communicate in game, people just don't listen or care.

VOIP is not the excuse. People aren't even reading chat or even the minimap.

The least observant people are the ones not doing the little things.

I occasionally see this one lance going thru the tunnel in Frozen City, trying to distract the opfor, but NEVER communicating it to anyone to anticipate that (and that totally requires a level of timing/synchronization).

I almost always see a group that doesn't attempt to regroup ASAP on a map... usually being that foolish team hanging/trading on the outside of the exits on HPG and getting run over because their position can be easily compromised and ignoring calls to GTFO of that position.

There's also "that guy" that doesn't realize that holding position @ the northern/southern entrances of Terra Therma continues to clog up the rest of the group trying to push through up the ramp... despite being told to "push in or your teammates die".

It doesn't seem to connect with people, but it's still happening.

So, if you're going to hope for a better result, let me know how before people repeat what obvious error ails them.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 April 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[Imperius]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

@Deathlike It would help if people didn't mute in game VOIP. I see that way to often. I guess thats why its frustrating in that respect as well, because we do try to communicate in game, people just don't listen or care.

@Imperius why should it cater to your 11 friends, if its statistically killing balance in the game? You cannot argue the fact that communication wins most games. There has to be a happy medium, it may not be group sizes of 4, but I still think it would help more then hurt at this point in time.

Because group queue is for groups. Like I said many groups got frustrated like you are getting stuck with people who don't listen, mute mics, don't care about winning etc. These people found others with like interests in communication and treat work and made friends.

Why aren't you attacking the subjects you just listed? I'm saying groups aren't the problem the pigs are.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

Yeah get the devs off their *** and make the game GOOD not minimally ******* viable

I think this and

Quote

having something more than a shallow, repetitive, arena shooter might help

this are our main two hurdles myself lol

[MechWarrior319348]

Look I think its true that a lot of people ignore coordination through VOIP, or chat.

But if you go into a match with that attitude, and you predetermine that your team is morons, then you've already set yourself up to fail.

I'm not saying that is your belief, but I think its important to note.

It never hurts to try, and its simply as that.

Also we are blowing thread up with useless bickering, its going to hurt it.... which is why I'm going to end with this, and why I'm going to remove the posts where I was silly enough to become involved in the bickering.

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 27 April 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gigliowanananacom, on 27 April 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

Look I think its true that a lot of people ignore coordination through VOIP

I have it off most of the time because when you lose with it on, listening to



(skip to 2:39)

gets tiring, especially when you get grouped with the same guy over and over

[Imperius]

Farix, on 27 April 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

If I play a game, I AM entitled to have fun. But a game that constantly subjects new and causal players to abuse is anything but fun.


Because I have friend I like to play with. Solo queue gets boring after while, but playing with friends should be fun. However, were MWO is concerned, it is just frustration after frustration as we get rolled time and time again by the 10-12 mans.


Your attitude has been "casuals should stick to solo queue and not enjoy the remaining 90% of the game", which I find highly offensive and anything but civil. PGI needs to work on keeping the remaining casual players they still have instead of further driving them off.

I've been telling you I only play with 2 people 90% of the time... Hence why I'll keep telling you you're wrong. I'm not nor have I ever been a 12 man stomp group, yet we have beat them.

Playing the game should be fun, it's not my fault you have a condition that you must win to have fun. That really all this boils down to.

Make more friends
Join a unit
Communicate more
Etc

So many things you can do but refuse to do because you're looking for an easy hand out. If you limit the group queue to 4 you'll lose people, some units will just sync drop and still stomp you, and all you would have accomplished is driving off the casual units with more friends than you.