40 replies to this topic

[The Mech behind you]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 April 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I've spent time in lights.

And despite them being "fragile" on paper....in reality you live much longer in lights. There's a reason 90% of pug games end with a light mech being the last alive.
...
The reason it's "a lights job" to kill enemy lights, is b/c they're the only people fast enough to chase the down and keep them in their crosshair permanently.
...
How do you think an assault pilot feels when he had to take down another assault, or push against a firing line to get the team to stop camping...

When lights start doing "their job" everyone else on the team is free to do theirs too....

I have to disagree on some points here.

The reason why a light lives longer is that light pilots are better used to hide. A light pilot needs to move undetected and only expose himself when engaging a target or otherwise he will be a dead light pilot. While this is essential for every class, I often see heavies and assaults waddling through the open. I barely see any lights doing this.

The reason why the last mech alive is a light is either the light got ignored in favor of more dangerous targets or the light was moving in the periphery of the battle and was left over after the big fight in the middle ended.

I don't mind in attacking lights if I'm near the target. But I won't run all the way back which could be up to 2 km. However I prefer to go and hunt down assaults and LRM boats as this would remove a lot of firepower from the opfor lineup. A light vs light fight takes forever and I feel like my contribution to victory is bigger by taking out large targets.

So in conclusion I actually think my job is to participate in taking out the most threatening mechs first which are normally assaults and heavies since I as a light mech pilot have the tools to do this with less risk because I can run behind them and sneak up close before engaging and finally outmaneuver bigger targets because of the agility.

However the tasks of lights can vary with their loadoud. An AMS Kitfox will stay with the group and give them protection. A NARC or TAG light is also going to flank the opfor but will spot and tag instead of fighting. A light streak boat would be wherever he expects to have the best chance in fighting red lights (which is near the friendly asaults).



I do many of those tasks the OP asks for but as I pointed out before, the place where you will find me or other light pilots on the battlefield depends on the builds sometimes. The meta lights and those with decent firepower will run off trying to flank the opfor.

I want to ask all of you non light pilots for something here. If you see a couple of lights running off at the beginning it's because they're trying to flank the other team. That means they have already a plan which they execute.
I see many teams that just try to follow the lights. I think this is one of the biggest reasons for NASCARs in pug games. Please don't do it!

First, heavy and assault mechs can't keep up with the lights anyways and will left behind. Second, if you can keep up barely, expect the lights to run off and scatter as soon as they accidentaly run into bigger groups and you will be left behind dying. Third, it's harder for your lights to flank the opfor if the whole team moves with them. The other team will adjust their front towards your teams position.

I played hundreds of hours in Assault mechs too so I know both playstyles very well and I want to ask you assault pilots to ask for help if you get attacked by a light. I do so because I know exactly what happens to me if I get caught alone by a light and it saved my life several times.

Edited by The Mech behind you, 28 April 2016 - 05:08 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Quite frankly the general attitude toward Lights both in regards to balancing and method of play is a bit disgusting. Most Lights dont have the weapon range to shoot down a UAV without getting dangerously close to where it was launched--You know, where the bad guys are.

They're the only weight class so limited by tonnage and 'game features' that variable-range and variable-task builds are impossible to construct. Small Pulses and SRMs are the only consistently viable weapons for striker/brawler; SLaser and MLaser are horrendous for fast moving targets or use while moving fast and MPulse is too heavy for a sufficient alpha size or DPS. On select few chassis PPCs, ERLL/LPulse/LLaser for 'sniping' with extremely low output... Neither weapon group can effectively be mixed to provide consistent results to warrant using them.

So their choices are (Relative to Mediums, Heavies and Assaults):

A. Have a mediocre Alpha and DPS with Short Range.
B. Have a pitiful Alpha and DPS with Long Range.

Let's be clear - There's a distinct difference between DPS and Alpha Damage. I've seen it argued many times over on these forums (And others) that Lights should not "do as much damage or be as tanky as an Assault" - Obviously none of them have the Alpha of an Assault, save for the Jenner IIC that has to have poor heat efficiency, limited ammo and extremely short range to do it and none of them are as 'tanky' as anything but a Low-Ton Medium at best due only to Quirks. The 3 most effective Striker/Brawler Light builds have an Alpha of 32-36, which is respectable. Their DPS, however, hovers around 13. To put that in perspective, Brawling Assaults typically carry an Alpha of 70+ and a DPS of, or exceeding, 23. Assaults with mixed short+long, or medium-range builds fall into the 40-70 range and maintain a DPS of around 18-22 while Sniper Assaults manage an Alpha of around 35-60 and a DPS of 12-18... Compared to a Sniper Light's 18-30 Alpha and 4-8 DPS.

Now it's widely believed that Lights should approach neither the DPS or Alpha of an Assault because they have Speed to make up for it... No - They have Speed to make up for not having Armor. Tonnage prevents them from carrying the payload to have an Alpha comparable to an Assault (Or a Heavy for that matter) in any combat role available. That leaves DPS... And we know how some feel about Lights approaching the DPS of Heavies and Assaults with the Oxide, which is the only one remotely close to it: "It's OP."

Being realistic, if Lights are to be a class worth playing, they need to be comparable in survivability and DPS(Not Alpha Size) to the Mechs with the current highest survivability and DPS: Heavies and Assaults. What's the point otherwise? Taking a Light Mech should not automatically mean being inferior, and it currently does. Speed is a trade off for Armor, albeit not a particularly proportional one as Armor is generally better to have up to the point where Speed can then pick up the slack (Around the 135+ KPH range)... Which puts Lights and Mediums both in a difficult position as neither has much Armor or DPS and slower Lights are really at a disadvantage while Tonnage itself inhibits big Alphas.

So the main disadvantages of Lights, and some Mediums, is lack of compensated DPS and Range... And until they get compensated in DPS and Range, they will remain inferior in a game where balance among weight classes is necessary but currently doesnt exist.

Do people like a Light with the DPS nearing a Heavy or Assault? Some do, some dont. But the "They have speed" argument doesnt justify lacking in both Armor and DPS. Any Mech is dangerous when ignored and any Mech can punish you for making mistakes... Lights and some Mediums, however, are disproportionately disadvantaged from the start.

Lights can use their speed to escape bad situations, Assaults have the armor to survive bad situations - Neither have a 100% chance of success, but only one of them has the DPS, Alpha Damage and Range to defend itself and make the enemy put their heads down during those situations... Hint: It isnt the Light.

So how about we give Lights (And some Mediums) a DPS and Range (Not Alpha Damage) boost to properly compensate and balance them?

With all the nonsensical logic floating around, it's unlikely to happen as most people cant get over the deep-seated belief that Lights should be inherently inferior because Higher Tonnage to them is like a level-up system. Perhaps the new heat system will help... Maybe not. /shrug

[Lykaon]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Soooo ERLL raven pilots shouldn't have to lose armor or die fighting enemy lights....

But an LRM assault pilot should have to lose armor and die fighting enemy assaults...

"logic"



Every other mech in the game does it.

Not sure why you think it's such a travesty when it's a light.

Yes an ER Large Laser Raven is ill suited to knife fight an Arctic cheetah or Firestarter. You could save a great deal of time and simply request that the Raven pilot press eject... nearly the same results if the Raven openly engages a mech built for close range damage when it is specificly designed for poke and shoot at extreme ranges.

If an LRM assault mech is engaged my enemy brawling assault mechs then someone somewhere EFed up. The game is probably already a fore gone conclusion if your LRM carrier is being pressured by enemy assault mechs.

So in conclusion not ALL light mechs are best at doing all things a light mech can/should do.

In fact I totally agree that the best counter to light mech harassers is medium mechs. A mech only needs to be swift enough to move to the point of engagment it does not need to be fast enough to maintain pursuit.

I also conceed that tying up mech resources in a "fair" light vs light fight is a waste of resources. I would never give an engage and destroy order to a singular light to kill an enemy light. Takes way too long and that light mech could be doing something instead of a 50/50 shot of scoring 1 kill and getting crippled in the process. However there are exceptions. Like unfair fight (large laser raven vs Cheetah sml pulse boat or 2 v 1 or in the case of my merc corp we have a couple of light mech aces that I would feel comfortable ordering them to engage anything)

It is also the assault mech pilot's job to do the following.

NOT sit idle at the DZ for the first 10-15 seconds while everyone else has begun deploying.

Pay attention to the mini map and terrain and avoid entering dangerous terrain.

Ask for assist when engaged by an enemy light pack. Puggies seem activley afraid of using the VOIP. I hardley ever hear a friendly assault request defense assist I only see the kill spam. And when I do hear a call for help it is rarely in any useful form.

"HELP THEY ARE ALL OVER ME!" is pretty worthless while "Direwolf needs assist HOTEL nine two lights attacking" is correct and useful.

Assaults CAN defend each other! You do not need a light mech to do it.Generaly speaking a mech lance is composed of similar class mechs. So if you spawn at the DZ piloting a Direwolf your lance mates will likely include at least one other assault mech. Now if one or the other doesn't spend the first 30 seconds with a digit firmly place up their posteriors and they actually move together they can protect EACH OTHER.

[adamts01]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Soooo ERLL raven pilots shouldn't have to lose armor or die fighting enemy lights....
But an LRM assault pilot should have to lose armor and die fighting enemy assaults...
"logic"

Well.... There shouldn't be a LRM Atlas to begin with.

And no, knife fighting lights shouldn't be priority targets for a LL Raven, they're built to tackle and harass the big guys and other snipers. Just like a LRM assault (which shouldn't exist) shouldn't be on the front line, but it should be taking hits and drawing fire, sharing that armor with the team. Both those mechs are hard to play well, most people hang back, pad stats, and pat themselves on the back for doing top damage in a loss as the last mech standing. If you're in a LL Raven or LRM mech and not wrecked by the end of a match, you didn't do your job distracting and drawing fire.

And If you're going 1v1 in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong. Brawlers should try to rush kill alpha boats and snipers, not find another brawler and go at it. This game is entirely about counters.

[Catra Lanis]

Naduk, on 27 April 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Protection of fatties is really more of a mediums job

The lights have enough on their shoulders
Not to mention you don't want your lights tied up in "fair" fights where they are at large risk of losing

But you assault pilots really really really really really need to spend a few weeks driving lights
For two reasons
1. Understand how hard it is , understand just how fragile they are and it is instant death for every single mistake
2. Know your enemy, if you have experienced the view from the light perspective you will be better equipped to deal with them as an assault

Maybe light pilots should spend a weekend driving assaults as well? I play all weightclasses and no class is as easy to play as lights if you play selfish which is what most people do in solo queue.

[EvilCatEars]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Soooo ERLL raven pilots shouldn't have to lose armor or die fighting enemy lights....

But an LRM assault pilot should have to lose armor and die fighting enemy assaults...

"logic"

Every mech is build for specific reason and has its strong points as well as weaknesses. In your example neither an Assault nor the Raven should fight light mechs, because they are not designed to do so. It is for pilot to decide, and make the most efficient use of a chassis.

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Every other mech in the game does it.

Not sure why you think it's such a travesty when it's a light.

Oh its pretty simple; its better to end game with 400-500 dmg + lots of assist + some solo kills/KMDDs than with 1 assist and below 100 damage dealt.

I cant speak for other light pilots, but for me to fight other light in solo quickplay >one< of those conditions must happen:
1. Clear advantage for me in direct fight (eg im driving SPL build vs ERLL build).
2. I can lure enemy light to my team so they focus fire it.
3. I chase one enemy with support of other teammate, or fighting alongside a mech i am escorting (in other words relying on numbers advantage).
4. I have no other choice (eg fighting on capture zones or 1v1 on the end of a match).
5. I have been explicitly ordered to do so (order have to be properly articulated though).

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

adamts01, on 28 April 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

And no, knife fighting lights shouldn't be priority targets for a LL Raven, they're built to tackle and harass the big guys and other snipers. Just like a LRM assault (which shouldn't exist) shouldn't be on the front line, but it should be taking hits and drawing fire, sharing that armor with the team. Both those mechs are hard to play well, most people hang back, pad stats, and pat themselves on the back for doing top damage in a loss as the last mech standing. If you're in a LL Raven or LRM mech and not wrecked by the end of a match, you didn't do your job distracting and drawing fire.

1) So you're saying an ERLL raven should spend time tickling down an assaults armor rather than legging another light mech from the safety of long range? That's just silly IMO.

2) LRM boats are second line mechs...the ONLY time they should be taking enemy fire is:
A- They're out of ammo. No ammo, get in there and be a bullet sponge.
B- The front line of brawlers they're supporting has fallen. First line goes down? Second line steps up.

[EvilCatEars]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

1) So you're saying an ERLL raven should spend time tickling down an assaults armor rather than legging another light mech from the safety of long range? That's just silly IMO.

Thats actually the point of that paricular Raven build (not wery efective build nowadays may I add). This buld relies on doing damage while receiving none in return, while rest of the team waits for enemy reaction to such harassment. And its much easier to get firing angle against slower and bigger mechs.

[adamts01]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

1) So you're saying an ERLL raven should spend time tickling down an assaults armor rather than legging another light mech from the safety of long range? That's just silly IMO.

Most LL Raven pilots suck. Good ones will distract that Atlas you mentioned, plus get a light killer chasing it all match. 35 tons keeping 135 enemy tons away from the fight is a job well done.

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 28 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

2) LRM boats are second line mechs...the ONLY time they should be taking enemy fire is:

No No No. LRM mechs should be a constant thorn in the enemies' side, and be a priority target, therefore getting shot at, especially if they're an assault and can spare some hits. If you've got the armor to spare (Atlas LRM boat), then expose yourself a little and take some pressure off your team.

[Moomtazz]

Have fun trying to show the Ex Atlas Ordellus how his goofy ideas do not fit actual gameplay.

Edited by Moomtazz, 28 April 2016 - 11:41 AM.

[Mavairo]

When I take my Lights out, I tend to take on one of three roles.
1: I will escort the Assault Mechs, to protect them from hostile lights. Usually in my 2 streak, and pulse weaponed lights.

2: I take on a Fast Bomber role, usually in a mech loaded with SRMs, and use this to hunt Assault, and Heavy mechs back armor. Dump a salvo or two in and continue running. Ideally whoever the target is for LRMs at the same time.

3: Capping. I take cap points, and intercept any lone mechs I find along the way. Dump a salvo and run etc.

[RussianWolf]

I will say that the only times I've actually felt vulnerable in a slow moving mech (even the pre-elited and speed quirked Dires) was when piloting a stock Urbie.

All the problems of a light - Low armor, limited weapons, and everyone wants to kill the cookie.

And add to that - slowest mech in the game.

I can't tell you how many times I wouldn't make it out of the spawn area before the fast lights were on me and my team was long gone. I can probably count on one hand how many times someone stayed to escort me to the group.

But oh, the glorious matches where I would be the last mech on my team, out of ammo for my AC and still pull out the win with a single small laser. Lol (yes, it did actually happen. Three kills in that match, but admittedly one was a DC at spawn and another was a very worn out mech. The scary part was me making it to the spawn and killing the DC with the small laser before time ran out. It was close.)

[1453 R]

A'ight, Overlord. Lemme put it this way, try and get through all that armored bone around your tactical computer.

I don't want you engaging enemy assault 'Mechs pec to pec, soloing one singular enemy and getting wrecked in the doing. That's as big a waste as demanding that light 'Mechs spend all game slap-fighting each other in circles around the fatbros.

You keep going on and on and on about 'sharing that armor' and all these barely-veiled jabs against people who complain about LRM Fatlases hanging six hundred meters away from the fighting, because your agenda is clearly to point out how assault 'Mechs should be allowed to Do Whatever if light 'Mechs get to Do Whatever. A'ight, fine - Do Whatever, Overlord. Nobody's stopping you. Nobody ever has. You fly those XL LRM Stalker bloatboats, you put that oh-so-devastating LRM35 on that Fatlas and "fire support" all you want.

But if you want to know what actual, reasonable people who play MWO want out of their assault 'Mechs? Simple. They want the same thing out of assault 'Mechs that they want out of heavies, or out of slower, gun-centric mediums, and even out of certain light builds - AGGRESSION.

'Share that armor' doesn't mean be dumb as a bag of bricks and play bloody knuckles with one single enemy assault. 'Share that armor' means working with the rest of your team, leveraging cover to try and give yourself an opening, and when that opening comes and the rest of the metal starts moving, bloody flim-flammin' frogmothering MOVE WITH IT. Don't be timid. Timidity is Not a Tactic™. If you're a sniper assault, then position yourself to be able to directly support a push with constant, heavy sniper fire - do NOT sit in a hole somewhere and wait for targets of opportunity. If you're an LRM assault, invest in a new build do the same thing - position yourself such that you can bring down heavy, accurate fire in direct and brutal support of the frontline guys.

If that means you're exposed to return fire, well, try to minimize that, but not at the expense of taking your 80+ tons out of the fight altogether. You're an assault driver - you're in control of significantly more than 1/12 of the team's firepower. Fight smart. Fight well. But most of all, FRIGGIN' FIGHT. Nobody has any patience for chickensh!t assault drivers.

Nobody wants you to derp-trade one for one for one singular enemy assault, Overlord. That's a lousy stance to argue. That's not what Carnage was getting at. That's not what light pilots want. If you're fighting a fair-and-square bout against a single enemy opponent, then somebody dun frogged up somewhere. No matter what you're in.

[The Flame]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 27 April 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Just an fyi. The big reason lights don't particularly like to dog fight enemy lights early is that the mechs are so evenly matched that one ends up dead and the other is basically a walking corpse. Now, I tend not to go assault mech hunting early because the odds of me losing my asasults is too high as are the odds of the enemy lights deciding to defend. So, I'll scout and report movements and engage ligths that come at the assaults because at that point they can't focus on me without going splat. Ultimately, your best defense against enemy lights is one of the half dozen laser vomit mechs on your team. I can't scout enemy movements and protect you. I'll try, but... if your timbies would slow their damn roll for a second you wouldn't need my help lol.

Mid game, I'll go hunting for opportunities, damaged components to take off, lrm boats that are too far behind enemy lines, lone assaults, reporting enemy pushes, exploiting gaps in their lines to be a squirrel, etc.

Late game... well if I'm still alive and it's close... I do whatever I can. But... typically if I'm alive end game... we're either rofl stomping them (because my splat jenner killed 3 assaults [6srm6 jenner IIC instasplodes warhawks btw]) or getting beaten like a bunch of baby seals.

No... lights are not instadeath. Theyre way too tough for thier tonnage actually. If you remember to never stop moving, theyrr pretty forgiving. Theyre fast enough to avoid damage and tough enough to forgive several mistakes usually. Now, cut the armor down to half of current armor values. Then youve got a real light mech.

[Astrocanis]

The Mech behind you, on 28 April 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

I have to disagree on some points here.

I hope you don't mind if I disagree by degree if not substance on some of your points.

Quote

The reason why a light lives longer is that light pilots are better used to hide. A light pilot needs to move undetected and only expose himself when engaging a target or otherwise he will be a dead light pilot. While this is essential for every class, I often see heavies and assaults waddling through the open. I barely see any lights doing this.

At under 60kph, it's not easy for fatties to take the long way round. If they do, they will not contribute to the fight. If you are moving 2-3x the speed of an assault, it's much easier to get behind the fight or poke/peek without getting creamed.

Quote

The reason why the last mech alive is a light is either the light got ignored in favor of more dangerous targets or the light was moving in the periphery of the battle and was left over after the big fight in the middle ended.

I would like to highlight the "periphery of the battle" comment. Because it is pertinent. Speed matters. Fatties don't have it.

Quote

I don't mind in attacking lights if I'm near the target. But I won't run all the way back which could be up to 2 km. However I prefer to go and hunt down assaults and LRM boats as this would remove a lot of firepower from the opfor lineup. A light vs light fight takes forever and I feel like my contribution to victory is bigger by taking out large targets.

Fortunately (for lights) a light vs assault fight doesn't take any time at all unless the Assault pilot is ridiculously good, lucky or the light pilot is neither

Quote

So in conclusion I actually think my job is to participate in taking out the most threatening mechs first which are normally assaults and heavies since I as a light mech pilot have the tools to do this with less risk because I can run behind them and sneak up close before engaging and finally outmaneuver bigger targets because of the agility.

Convenient.

For the record I have mastered Kit Foxes, Adders, Locusts, Spiders (even the crappy one), Jenners (have 6), Ravens (have 7), Firestarters, Cicadas (6 - I know they are mediums but they are more like large lights) and Ice Fridges. I have well over 200 hours invested in them. I am aware of their strengths and weaknesses.

Saying that your job is to run off randomly with the rest of your lance in opposite directions to scout and then STAY THERE without providing either intel or protection for the most vulnerable of your flock is self serving. You can scout and then get back to your fatties at about the same time the red lights find them. This is no longer 1v1 light v light. It's lights and assaults v lights.

And, having said all that, I agree that mediums should be much more aware of their assaults than they are.

Part of the "Clan is soooo OP" argument (not that they weren't at release) was that mediums and heavies pretty much moved at the same speed. The Hellbringer is massively useful because it's neither faster nor slower than most of its teammates.

[The Flame]

And actually, the biggest problem i have with lights is that they are made for roles in this game that they arent used for in novels or tabletop. Theyre made for things like keeping civilian populations under control. Scouting. Patrols. Training. Thats about it. Every single instance ive ever read, if a light runs into anything other than a light, they are petrified. Hell, one of the most experienced mechwarriors in the IS gets cut down by a rifleman while in a valkyrie. If i ran into a rifleman all alone in mwo, in ANY light other than an urbie, i would laugh and feed off of the riflemans tears.

[Astrocanis]

Quote

Yes an ER Large Laser Raven is ill suited to knife fight an Arctic cheetah or Firestarter. You could save a great deal of time and simply request that the Raven pilot press eject... nearly the same results if the Raven openly engages a mech built for close range damage when it is specificly designed for poke and shoot at extreme ranges.

And so, they are most able to contribute to the team by poking and peeking and ECMing for their heavy brothers than attempting to harass. But they usually don't. They hang out as far away from the fights as possible attempting to "hit" the targets at all. And, when their team is dead, attempting to survive the inevitable red light onslaught that ensues.

I know because I've been that Raven. And I've seen it happen. Pretty much every match with a 3L in it. Which is why I've completely changed my loadout to a more medium range build.

[Chuck Jager]

I have pretty much stopped running lights or assaults in solo pug.

This has stopped all of the problems from all sides of the issue. It is not like we are forced to have either weight class in game.

[Astrocanis]

1453 R, on 28 April 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

A'ight, Overlord. Lemme put it this way, try and get through all that armored bone around your tactical computer.

I don't want you engaging enemy assault 'Mechs pec to pec, soloing one singular enemy and getting wrecked in the doing. That's as big a waste as demanding that light 'Mechs spend all game slap-fighting each other in circles around the fatbros.

You keep going on and on and on about 'sharing that armor' and all these barely-veiled jabs against people who complain about LRM Fatlases hanging six hundred meters away from the fighting, because your agenda is clearly to point out how assault 'Mechs should be allowed to Do Whatever if light 'Mechs get to Do Whatever. A'ight, fine - Do Whatever, Overlord. Nobody's stopping you. Nobody ever has. You fly those XL LRM Stalker bloatboats, you put that oh-so-devastating LRM35 on that Fatlas and "fire support" all you want.

But if you want to know what actual, reasonable people who play MWO want out of their assault 'Mechs? Simple. They want the same thing out of assault 'Mechs that they want out of heavies, or out of slower, gun-centric mediums, and even out of certain light builds - AGGRESSION.

'Share that armor' doesn't mean be dumb as a bag of bricks and play bloody knuckles with one single enemy assault. 'Share that armor' means working with the rest of your team, leveraging cover to try and give yourself an opening, and when that opening comes and the rest of the metal starts moving, bloody flim-flammin' frogmothering MOVE WITH IT. Don't be timid. Timidity is Not a Tactic™. If you're a sniper assault, then position yourself to be able to directly support a push with constant, heavy sniper fire - do NOT sit in a hole somewhere and wait for targets of opportunity. If you're an LRM assault, invest in a new build do the same thing - position yourself such that you can bring down heavy, accurate fire in direct and brutal support of the frontline guys.

If that means you're exposed to return fire, well, try to minimize that, but not at the expense of taking your 80+ tons out of the fight altogether. You're an assault driver - you're in control of significantly more than 1/12 of the team's firepower. Fight smart. Fight well. But most of all, FRIGGIN' FIGHT. Nobody has any patience for chickensh!t assault drivers.

Nobody wants you to derp-trade one for one for one singular enemy assault, Overlord. That's a lousy stance to argue. That's not what Carnage was getting at. That's not what light pilots want. If you're fighting a fair-and-square bout against a single enemy opponent, then somebody dun frogged up somewhere. No matter what you're in.

For the record, I am not a "chicken offal" assault driver (awful, maybe, never offal). But playing aggressively in PUGland means your team is down an assault. Because unless the team has at least two other like-minded individuals, all the assault will do by "sharing his armor", which as I recall, was an insult aimed at heavy/assault pilots some time ago, is die meaninglessly. To be mocked by his teammates over only having done 150 damage in his 80+ ton behemoth. And only after having survived the red light menace he was abandoned to.

Give it a break with the bonehead stuff, please? I don't always agree with AO, but insults rarely help.

[1453 R]

Astrocanis, on 28 April 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

For the record, I am not a "chicken offal" assault driver (awful, maybe, never offal). But playing aggressively in PUGland means your team is down an assault. Because unless the team has at least two other like-minded individuals, all the assault will do by "sharing his armor", which as I recall, was an insult aimed at heavy/assault pilots some time ago, is die meaninglessly. To be mocked by his teammates over only having done 150 damage in his 80+ ton behemoth. And only after having survived the red light menace he was abandoned to.

Give it a break with the bonehead stuff, please? I don't always agree with AO, but insults rarely help.

Neither does deliberately seeking to derail a thread attempting to at least try and foster cooperation and understanding to some small extent, but a'ight.

And by 'aggression', I'm not saying jump out and Braveheart your way across an open field in the teeth of a firing line or a rain machine. But I've seen far, far, far too many "I'm not gonna push until you push!", "Well I sure as shootin' ain't gonna push until you push!", "Why isn't someone else moving around this rock and taking fire so I can push?!" games to buy any of it anymore. I've had to be the Tip of The Spear™ in my Jenner half the games I play with it, actively telling people in VoIP "I'm going to go shove missiles in poop chutes and probably get dead doing it. Push while I'm assaulting their rectums or I'll haunt you."

Shockingly enough, when folks pay attention we tend to do pretty crushingly well. Nobody ever won a fight by hiding behind a rock until their enemies came in after them with a chainsaw. As has been explained quite thoroughly in one of my favorite old threads in these forums, Timidity is Not a Tactic. It is a failing, one shared by drivers spread across all weight classes.

If I'm out there skirmishing my knees off in a Jenner, carving in butts and disrupting lines, I expect my team to be moving to take advantage of that fact. If I'm in one of my Warhawks, then I'm angling to find the thickest fight I can and come at it as hard and heavy as possible while the lights and mediums and such are fixing the fight in place. If I'm in a Stormcrow, I'm looking for ways to slice off a vulnerable enemy, or find a light 'Mech that's forgotten it doesn't have reflective armor yet, or weigh in on a rude conversation between blue and red fatbros in favor of my buddy, and I expect those fatbros to be vomiting fire at a rate which merits me keeping close enough to shield them from interceptors. If I'm daring the heavy queue with Li'l Susan, I'm intending to empty my autocannons from between the first and second lines and plug any holes in the forward Brawler Wall, however ill-suited the Cauldron-Born is the moshing, and I'm expecting my teammates to be right there next to me bringing harm to the enemy.

Nobody's asking for suicidal recklessness, man. What I will ask is that you donate ammunition to your enemies as generously as possible and maneuver with the twin goals of Staying Alive, and also Killing The Enemy.