66 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

PGI doing this is a proverbial middle finger and if you don't like it, the ONLY thing you can do is stop spending money on the game. I know, it is a painful choice to make as the game might die, but, money talks...

[Splatshot]

Afuldan McKronik, on 01 May 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'm not PGI but I am going to put this out now.

No extra decks for packs that were bought previously to this addition. 1000MC per extra drop deck. Because they want more money from us. Makes total sence as a player to get these decks. Makes total sence for PGI to charge for every single one.

I so agree with this, if they considered the year 2 rewards year only be 9 months when rewarding purchases, one can only expect the good math to continue.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Any UI add on features should be added to Premium time to encourage people to get it. Premium time for this game is lacking A LOT.

There are other ways to add more side items for purchase. Tokens placed on mechs to give them the hero bonus for a certain amount of time, when it goes away, you buy another one. I suppose that could be considered a consumable.

[Afuldan McKronik]

GAGONMYlOCK, on 02 May 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Any UI add on features should be added to Premium time to encourage people to get it. Premium time for this game is lacking A LOT.

There are other ways to add more side items for purchase. Tokens placed on mechs to give them the hero bonus for a certain amount of time, when it goes away, you buy another one. I suppose that could be considered a consumable.

I don't think basic QoL improvements should be a Premium only. That's a dangerous path. When I am in the middle of setting up a mech, the SAVING thing that pops up randomly should either actually save what I have done, or it can wait until I am ACTUALLY DONE.

[Morggo]

Personally, I play a number of F2P games besides MWO. And this is exactly the way they tend to run.
- Everyone gets a taste of a feature. Enough to operate with and enjoy. Then they make more available, for a fee. Do you HAVE to have more of said feature? No, the basic set should do you fine. BUT, the option is there for more. SO you get a couple drop decks. Want more, pony up for the extra convenience imho.

Examples how this happens elsewhere similarly?
- Inventory space in most mmorpgs. You get x bags/slots/etc. If you like to hoard equipment, more bags/slots can be bought.
- Clothing/outfits. Usually you'll get a couple outfits. If you are someone who likes to have a dozen different outfits for role playing, etc... buy some extra outfit unlocks.

Can probably keep going, but that gives the idea. MWO is simply monetizing in a way most games have done for years. Just like all the complaining about MWO's premium time running and no way to stop it... I've played many online games and none so far ever offered their "VIP" time a pause button. I don't get what people want out of PGI other than bankruptcy. Gamers gotta game, Developers gotta sell.

*shrugs*

Edited by Morggo, 02 May 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Morggo, on 02 May 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

Personally, I play a number of F2P games besides MWO. And this is exactly the way they tend to run.
- Everyone gets a taste of a feature. Enough to operate with and enjoy. Then they make more available, for a fee. Do you HAVE to have more of said feature? No, the basic set should do you fine. BUT, the option is there for more. SO you get a couple drop decks. Want more, pony up for the extra convenience imho.

Examples how this happens elsewhere similarly?
- Inventory space in most mmorpgs. You get x bags/slots/etc. If you like to hoard equipment, more bags/slots can be bought.
- Clothing/outfits. Usually you'll get a couple outfits. If you are someone who likes to have a dozen different outfits for role playing, etc... buy some extra outfit unlocks.

Can probably keep going, but that gives the idea. MWO is simply monetizing in a way most games have done for years. Just like all the complaining about MWO's premium time running and no way to stop it... I've played many online games and none so far ever offered their "VIP" time a pause button. I don't get what people want out of PGI other than bankruptcy. Gamers gotta game, Developers gotta sell.

*shrugs*

MW shouldn't have been a microtransaction F2P in the first place, but thats how you keep milking players for all they are worth. Keep putting the shiny in front of them and ask for MONEY.

[Jables McBarty]

Alistair Winter, on 01 May 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Honestly, it doesn't bother me. I just find it funny. First of all, players have been asking PGI to monetize features for years, and this is finally how they did it. It's particularly funny because CW is struggling a bit to begin with. And then putting a tax on a fairly basic feature is just.... it's not wrong, it's just ironic.

Might we also say quixotic?

Funkmaster Rick, on 01 May 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

'Microtransaction' is a marketing term. These transactions have never been micro, the term was simply thought up and made popular in the marketplace because it makes spending money more palatable. Microtransactions sound marginally better than transactions. But the whole idea that there's a difference is a silly notion - marketeers don't care about misusing language; that's pretty much their job.

Microtransactions even if a neologism are a thing. Can I spend only $1 or $0.50 on MWO? Nope. But I can on Dota 2, because Dota 2 is focused on microtransactions--in this case cosmetic items that sell for $0.05 to $50.00. There is a difference between a business model that runs on hundreds of purchases running $20-150 and one that runs on millions of purchases of $0.50-$10.

Afuldan McKronik, on 01 May 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'm not PGI but I am going to put this out now.

No extra decks for packs that were bought previously to this addition. 1000MC per extra drop deck. Because they want more money from us. Makes total sence as a player to get these decks. Makes total sence for PGI to charge for every single one.

Quoting because I want to agree with you without "liking" it. This is what it will be. Not sure if I'd pay 1000MC. Would pay 300 or 500 probably.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Jables McBarty, on 02 May 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Might we also say quixotic?



Microtransactions even if a neologism are a thing. Can I spend only $1 or $0.50 on MWO? Nope. But I can on Dota 2, because Dota 2 is focused on microtransactions--in this case cosmetic items that sell for $0.05 to $50.00. There is a difference between a business model that runs on hundreds of purchases running $20-150 and one that runs on millions of purchases of $0.50-$10.



Quoting because I want to agree with you without "liking" it. This is what it will be. Not sure if I'd pay 1000MC. Would pay 300 or 500 probably.

Thats probably a low ball number. No need to like my part. I forsee people needing to choose between 4 mechbays or the convience of an extra CW/FP drop deck saved.

Edited by Afuldan McKronik, 02 May 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[sycocys]

Comparably priced game - Marvel Heroes

Hero costs (non-advance pack) - $5-15 (or you earn them for free, they don't have "enhanced earning" heroes just buffs)
Costumes for heroes - $5-90+ <- seriously that isn't a joke, there are more than a few $90+ costumes directly comparable to the gold mechs.
Extra skill set slots - $5 (last I checked anyhow) - would be extra mechbay or loadout slot if they ever implemented it here
Extra inventory - most were $5, can earn a few free
Side-kick/minions - $5-15 or free (I think all but 3-4 alternate costumed ones are free to earn) Would maybe be similar to them selling permanent UAV's/Strikes/Flushes and so forth.

Their big money item is random draw cards which range from $3-100+ for amounts of packs to get an assortment of buffs, items, chances at costumes, and a single token for one of the $90+ costumes.
--PGI would have a lot of work to do to develop out something useful for this - would need every mech with custom geo, decals, pattern unlocks (and far more patterns), probably manufacterer weapons, with hero and champion mechs on some sort of generic token system.

They also sell various buffs with a few lesser free ones available. Big difference is your buff counters don't run when you aren't actively playing - they changed that less than a month after going live, and sell an absolute ton of them as a result of that little change.

Really there's a ton of ways to sell MC and get people buying silly little stuff, always been a fool's errand to only focus on the big cash-ins and leave all the trickle in and impulse buys laying by the side of the road. Then again, it might also be too late to go this direction because they've soured a lot of the crowd that was willing to throw piles of cash at them.

[Jackal Noble]

Morggo, on 02 May 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

Personally, I play a number of F2P games besides MWO. And this is exactly the way they tend to run.
- Everyone gets a taste of a feature. Enough to operate with and enjoy. Then they make more available, for a fee. Do you HAVE to have more of said feature? No, the basic set should do you fine. BUT, the option is there for more. SO you get a couple drop decks. Want more, pony up for the extra convenience imho.

Examples how this happens elsewhere similarly?
- Inventory space in most mmorpgs. You get x bags/slots/etc. If you like to hoard equipment, more bags/slots can be bought.
- Clothing/outfits. Usually you'll get a couple outfits. If you are someone who likes to have a dozen different outfits for role playing, etc... buy some extra outfit unlocks.

Can probably keep going, but that gives the idea. MWO is simply monetizing in a way most games have done for years. Just like all the complaining about MWO's premium time running and no way to stop it... I've played many online games and none so far ever offered their "VIP" time a pause button. I don't get what people want out of PGI other than bankruptcy. Gamers gotta game, Developers gotta sell.

*shrugs*

I find it odd that you didn't mention any names of the game types you exampled. Especially when you are a "veteran" of many f2p games.

[Morggo]

Sure, happy to do so. Most recent are Star Wars the Old Republic, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online... all you'll find have pretty standard models like I mentioned, and mechanics and purchases matching them.

But, YMMV I suppose. Not trolling, just making comment based on personal experience.
Apologies for not including more details.

Edited by Morggo, 02 May 2016 - 07:34 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

I don't see any point in having preset scout dropdecks but I'll gladly buy some more invasion ones. Plus we get some free which is awesome.

I think people forget how free to play games operate. Most are way more stingy than pgi.

[sycocys]

ThomasMarik, on 02 May 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

I think people forget how free to play games operate. Most are way more stingy than pgi.

Monetization is really just about offering an array of options and then making them (and the game development) feel like a good enough value that large chunks of your (paying) playerbase buy them.

Like the cards/$90 costumes in MH. The costumes aren't particularily a great value, but the return on the cards is more for the stack of buffs and other items you are going to get and be able to work towards the expensive item at a pace that doesn't make you sick to your stomach.

It's encouraging a larger purchase through a lot of smaller transactions, but they still sell the currency the same exact way - in bundles of $5-100+, after that microtransactions and impulse purchases are the best way to get people to buy another bundle of their currency.

Premium time for instance - if you look at it as a sub, its not a terrible value. But the problem is most f2p games run a far better and easier to monetize model that also doesn't make players feel like they are flushing their money down the drain if they can't play the game AFTER spending money.
-- Easy to fix and make it feel like a better value AND earn more money.
1. You split it into xp and c-bill buffs.
2. Change it into # of drops, or if they can't do that math only ticks of in-match. This gives it actual value, that doesn't make people feel ripped off.
3. Add various levels of buff that stack and have their own counters + prices.

There's a reason why almost no other games run your buffs while you are logged off - because it actively decreases your sales right in the design, and that effect doubles when your target audience is ~40 years old with full time jobs.

--
Then things like the MC modules. Instead of paying for modules that just have a stack of uses which would make sense in the game system, they chose to go the insanely expensive route by charging per use - and after every match if you use them. Just another way to make purchasing things feel like a bad value.

[Wintersdark]

Expensive items with cheaper paths to them is often a very viable marketing strategy. If you can get tokens towards an outfit that costs $90, even if that outfit is fully cosmetic it still feels like you got something "worth" $90 when you finally earn it. Expensive items in a game, even if people never buy those things, can really be useful from a marketing angle.

[Karl Marlow]

sycocys, on 03 May 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

Monetization is really just about offering an array of options and then making them (and the game development) feel like a good enough value that large chunks of your (paying) playerbase buy them.

Like the cards/$90 costumes in MH. The costumes aren't particularily a great value, but the return on the cards is more for the stack of buffs and other items you are going to get and be able to work towards the expensive item at a pace that doesn't make you sick to your stomach.

It's encouraging a larger purchase through a lot of smaller transactions, but they still sell the currency the same exact way - in bundles of $5-100+, after that microtransactions and impulse purchases are the best way to get people to buy another bundle of their currency.

Premium time for instance - if you look at it as a sub, its not a terrible value. But the problem is most f2p games run a far better and easier to monetize model that also doesn't make players feel like they are flushing their money down the drain if they can't play the game AFTER spending money.
-- Easy to fix and make it feel like a better value AND earn more money.
1. You split it into xp and c-bill buffs.
2. Change it into # of drops, or if they can't do that math only ticks of in-match. This gives it actual value, that doesn't make people feel ripped off.
3. Add various levels of buff that stack and have their own counters + prices.

There's a reason why almost no other games run your buffs while you are logged off - because it actively decreases your sales right in the design, and that effect doubles when your target audience is ~40 years old with full time jobs.

--
Then things like the MC modules. Instead of paying for modules that just have a stack of uses which would make sense in the game system, they chose to go the insanely expensive route by charging per use - and after every match if you use them. Just another way to make purchasing things feel like a bad value.

What are you talking about? Every other F2P game has buffs that run in real time. Star Trrek Online. Champions. Neverwinter, DDO. DCUO. Looking at games more closely related to MWO, Every 'World of X' and War Thunder game has subscriptions that provide buffs while subscribed. Dont play that month. tough ****. Even on the phone the vast majority of these things have some kind of times subscription things that you just strait up miss out on it if you don't log in every day to collect it.

Where is this mythical F2P game that doesn't have subscriptions that provide buffs but the subscription only runs when you are actively online?

[Raso]

New? PGI would monetize forum warrior online if they could.

[Brizna]

I don't bother listening to town halls because they are way too long -but I would love to be able to read good summaries- so I didn't listen to Russ talk about paying for "quality of life improvements" but if he said so I want to make it clear that for me being able to have more pre saved drop decks isn't just a quality of life thing, in a game so tactical as this it is a P2W thing. I have not spent 1500$$$ in the game but also have 150 mechs and I have spent on this game MORE than in any other game ever.

[sycocys]

ThomasMarik, on 03 May 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

Where is this mythical F2P game that doesn't have subscriptions that provide buffs but the subscription only runs when you are actively online?

Only every f2p game that run the buff system instead of the subscription system and they sell a hell of a lot more per person in those buffs than the games with subs sell for their option.

The subscription model only works IF you can draw a large playerbase that will pay it. The buff model actually gets casual players to purchase into the system as well as the more die hard players keeping their buffs running.

Edited by sycocys, 03 May 2016 - 05:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Erm, I hope they dont cost too much.. I will need at least 12 (two per map, atk/Def). And thats assuming ill always be happy to manually select the scout mech..

[Void Angel]